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"Mass Effect is the Star Wars of our generation!" Huh?


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#76
KaiserShep

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comparing something scientifically proven to something that is artistically subjective is a false equivalency, and not a good argument.

 

I bet there were tons of people who said the same thing when Star Wars came out, it would be a flash in the pan fad before it dies off eventually. I don't know, I wasn't around when the original trilogy was in theaters though, but I do know it changed how sci-fi and special effects were used and seen, that's for sure.

 

 

Heck, Star Trek was almost a failure as well.



#77
Iakus

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If nothing else, it did popularize the concept of the save import. I can't recall any game having ever done that before, not one particularly well known anyway. BG1 let you import character stats (and nothing else) while KotOR 2 let you decide that Revan was either completely evil or good, via dialogue but that was all.

 

On the other hand, a lot/most of the import system was handled poorly not to mention the plot felt cobbled together/poorly planned, but I can't say I ever thought that the first series to incorporate this mechanic would have a chance in hell of turning out well. It's kinda how I look back at BG1: great ideas for its time, very bland execution. 

I don' think the save import is very popular now either.  Except for Bioware, I don't know of any company that really makes much use for it.

 

Well, aside from serialized games like Life is Strange and Telltale's more recent works.  But even then that's really all one game.


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#78
wolfhowwl

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Mass Effect had an impact with the population that is well represented in the online nerdosphere. The attention it received there is vastly out of proportion to its actual sales and people reached in the real world.


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#79
DaemionMoadrin

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I don' think the save import is very popular now either.  Except for Bioware, I don't know of any company that really makes much use for it.

 

Well, aside from serialized games like Life is Strange and Telltale's more recent works.  But even then that's really all one game.

 

The Witcher series uses it, too.



#80
Il Divo

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I don' think the save import is very popular now either.  Except for Bioware, I don't know of any company that really makes much use for it.

 

Well, aside from serialized games like Life is Strange and Telltale's more recent works.  But even then that's really all one game.

 

That's true. It might be better to say that it's the first series that advertised save imports as a feature, at least for plot elements. Popularize makes it sound like I'm saying companies are looking at Bioware and saying "Damn! We need that!". 

 

I actually still fully believe the import system can be done well. But it's something that needs to be very well planned and careful in its execution. I think Bioware got too caught up with throwing us ever more dramatic ways of changing the galaxy with each game, but meanwhile having to write up questionable explanations to justify why many of the decisions we make have little to no consequence. 



#81
Quarian Master Race

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The transhumanism and all the social issues displayed in ME are more like Star Trek though. Star Wars never gave a crap about the sentience and emotions of droids.

Good thing too, because it's better to not bother when you misunderstand and miscategorize the issue as badly as this series does. SW droids are a far more believable manifestation of what AI's might actually look like than anything in this series, not that this is saying much.

 

Yep, they copied literally everything about the Delvians - their appearance (minus a head fringe), their religion, their mind-melding ability, their "Goddess".

They copied the Rachni from Ender's Game's Formics. They copied the general concept of the Quarians and Geth from Battlestar Galactica.

Delvians were sapient, mobile plants with two sexes who secrete toxins. Asari weren't really ripped off of them even if there are some similarites (blueness and psychic nonsense). Even as far as apperance goes, it's probably more to do with the fact that delvians had to be played by human actors (some even have hair) and asari are intentionally made to look like blue humans with calamari hats so we'd (i.e. dudes and lesbians) have something to bang in the MEverse. 

Rachni are similar to Formics but then again most hive minded bugs in SciFi share certain characteristics. 

The organics vs rouge AI/ artificial lifeform conflict hardly began with Battlestar. Karel Čapek created the trope almost 100 years ago with RUR. Quarians aren't much like the humans in either original or new BSG either culturally or biologically other than both living on ships. Humans didn't even create the Cylons in the original in fact. The geth are certainly nothing like the Cylons apart from both being artificial. Physically, the latter use bioengineering more than robotics and heuristics rather than P2P network based swarm intelligence. Cylons are aggressively and violently expansionist rather than isolationist. They have a hierarchical society instead of a consensus. The culture is nothing like the geth, who don't go around enslaving, infiltrating and seeking out the organics to destroy (in fact they seem interested in reconciliation with the quarians to a certain extent). The themes aren't even remotely similar, as religion has practically nothing to do with the geth-quarian conflict but defines the one between the Cylons and Twelve Colony humans.

All they really share is a trope. Oh, and unequivocally evil toasters, obviously.


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#82
Iakus

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The Witcher series uses it, too.

From what I understand of the series, its use is extremely limited.  The story is largely canonized a certain way.


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#83
Il Divo

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From what I understand of the series, its use is extremely limited.  The story is largely canonized a certain way.

 

I haven't touched TW3, but TW2's use fits the bill for this. Of the two LI options from the Witcher 1, it forcibly canonizes one of them for you, even if you choose not to romance anyone. 



#84
Broganisity

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I'd say its the 'Star Wars' of our generation in regards to its media/world.

Mass Effect: Sci-Fi Game World.
Star Trek: Sci-Fi TV World.
Star Wars: Sci-Fi Movie World.
Known Space: Sci-Fi Written World.



#85
LinksOcarina

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Nah I much prefer story driven games. I'm not a huge fan of MMO's either. I mean, I love the open world and exploration feel to it, but I hate the cooperative mechanism. The last one I played was way long ago - FFXI. I felt obligated to sign online to meet groups to grind and level up since the difficulty curve was so high. I like to play games leisurely since I work such a long and unpredictable schedule, not feel like I have to sign on at x time to participate in raids or grinds or whatever bullshit of the day people are partaking in.

If there was an MMO that wasn't lame as fuckall like that, I would probably be into it. And hell, I would play a Mass Effect MMO just because it is Mass Effect.

 

credit to the old republic, it is possible to play it without going with a group. the added benefit of companions makes that possible, and it is something unique as far as I am aware at least.

 

I do know that feeling though. I got burned out by WoW and Everquest after a long time playing there. The only other MMO I played at length was City of Heroes, and that too had a lot of co-op mandatory parts.



#86
LinksOcarina

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I haven't touched TW3, but TW2's use fits the bill for this. Of the two LI options from the Witcher 1, it forcibly canonizes one of them for you, even if you choose not to romance anyone. 

 

In Witcher 3 it does have a moment where you recount exploits from the 2nd game that make up your story, and tie to some minor little bits here and there for you.

 

It's very light compared to say the Keep, which catalogs the whole damn thing. 



#87
Il Divo

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In Witcher 3 it does have a moment where you recount exploits from the 2nd game that make up your story, and tie to some minor little bits here and there for you.

 

It's very light compared to say the Keep, which catalogs the whole damn thing. 

 

How was Henselt handled, out of curiosity? What I heard was less than thrilling. 



#88
LinksOcarina

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How was Henselt handled, out of curiosity? What I heard was less than thrilling. 

 

I didn't play the game, I watched videos of it though. 

 

Spoiler I guess for those who want to find out though.

 

Spoiler


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#89
Queen Skadi

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Not even close, Star Wars is like the ultimate fantasy universe, it is like the culmination of all your childhood fantasies, from being a formula one driver or a knight saving the princess from the monster to being a cowboy in the wild west tracking bounties or a pirate on the high seas smuggling precious booty, Star Wars covers them all in it's own unique way.

 

Star Trek would probably be closer to the spirit of Mass Effect.


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#90
Il Divo

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Sounds about right.  :(



#91
Former_Fiend

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While the over all quality of a work can be and often is subjective, the amount of influence it has throughout media and pop culture is estimatable if not exactly quantifiable. 

 

You talk like Yoda, people know what you're doing. You make a Darth Vader breathing noise, people know what you're doing. You make light saber sounds, people know what you're doing. You tell someone that you're their father, people know what you're doing. 

 

If someone says they've never played Mass Effect, they'll get a shrug and someone will say "you should play it, it's really good." Someone says they've never seen Star Wars, people will stare blankly and wonder at how that's possible. 

 

There are people, in real life, who hold the Force to be their religion. 

 

Mass Effect doesn't have that level of cultural prominence. That isn't opinion; that's objective fact.

 

I love Mass Effect. I really do.  It's one of my favorite series of all time. I'm not deriding it or dismissing it when I say that it simply has not had the cultural impact of Star Wars nor has it had the impact on the gaming industry that Star Wars had on the film industry.

 

That isn't saying it hasn't had any impact at all. It's had quite a bit of impact, though it's hard to say how much of that impact is directly attributable to Mass Effect and how much can be attributed to Bioware's style in general. But it isn't an exaggeration to say that Star Wars fundamentally changed the way movies were made; Mass Effect didn't fundamentally changed the way games are made. 


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#92
DaemionMoadrin

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Star Wars was revolutionary because the entire production was a bit of a chaotic mess and everyone had to achieve more with less. So they got creative and the result (luckily) worked.

 

Probably partially correct and somewhat funny article that might be relevant: http://www.cracked.c...rs-classic.html



#93
Il Divo

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While the over all quality of a work can be and often is subjective, the amount of influence it has throughout media and pop culture is estimatable if not exactly quantifiable. 

 

You talk like Yoda, people know what you're doing. You make a Darth Vader breathing noise, people know what you're doing. You make light saber sounds, people know what you're doing. You tell someone that you're their father, people know what you're doing. 

 

If someone says they've never played Mass Effect, they'll get a shrug and someone will say "you should play it, it's really good." Someone says they've never seen Star Wars, people will stare blankly and wonder at how that's possible. 

 

There are people, in real life, who hold the Force to be their religion. 

 

Mass Effect doesn't have that level of cultural prominence. That isn't opinion; that's objective fact.

 

I love Mass Effect. I really do.  It's one of my favorite series of all time. I'm not deriding it or dismissing it when I say that it simply has not had the cultural impact of Star Wars nor has it had the impact on the gaming industry that Star Wars had on the film industry.

 

That isn't saying it hasn't had any impact at all. It's had quite a bit of impact, though it's hard to say how much of that impact is directly attributable to Mass Effect and how much can be attributed to Bioware's style in general. But it isn't an exaggeration to say that Star Wars fundamentally changed the way movies were made; Mass Effect didn't fundamentally changed the way games are made. 

 

Without getting too much into objectivity, I think another aspect to consider is: do you have to go out of your way to explain the reference? The Avengers release: Iron Man at one point tells Hawkeye to "Clench up Legolas". He doesn't outright say it's a Lord of the Rings reference. In my theater, this was done to huge laughs. I can't say a Mass Effect reference would have been done to similar effect. 

 

One other aspect is barrier to entry: Star Wars is a 2 hour movie viewable on VHS (back in the day), DVD, and in general on TV. Mass Effect is a 25+ hour spectacle with a high learning curve, for first time gamers, requiring a customized PC or a game console of some kind. 


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#94
LinksOcarina

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While the over all quality of a work can be and often is subjective, the amount of influence it has throughout media and pop culture is estimatable if not exactly quantifiable. 

 

You talk like Yoda, people know what you're doing. You make a Darth Vader breathing noise, people know what you're doing. You make light saber sounds, people know what you're doing. You tell someone that you're their father, people know what you're doing. 

 

If someone says they've never played Mass Effect, they'll get a shrug and someone will say "you should play it, it's really good." Someone says they've never seen Star Wars, people will stare blankly and wonder at how that's possible. 

 

There are people, in real life, who hold the Force to be their religion. 

 

Mass Effect doesn't have that level of cultural prominence. That isn't opinion; that's objective fact.

 

I love Mass Effect. I really do.  It's one of my favorite series of all time. I'm not deriding it or dismissing it when I say that it simply has not had the cultural impact of Star Wars nor has it had the impact on the gaming industry that Star Wars had on the film industry.

 

That isn't saying it hasn't had any impact at all. It's had quite a bit of impact, though it's hard to say how much of that impact is directly attributable to Mass Effect and how much can be attributed to Bioware's style in general. But it isn't an exaggeration to say that Star Wars fundamentally changed the way movies were made; Mass Effect didn't fundamentally changed the way games are made. 

 

I understand that all, and I definitely agree about Star Wars in general having more impact.

 

I think though Mass Effect is well on the way to be on that track. All it kind of needs at this point is time to incubate it. 

 

Where I differ is I do feel we have seen Mass Effects "style" kind of change things. Fallout 4 is pretty emblematic to it in some ways; the voiced protagonist, the wheel of dialogue, the cinematic experience being pushed as a new way to play the game, the hybridization of role-play elements to other genres and actually working properly. We also have save imports and the evolution of their use and design, while heavily touted by BioWare as a major feature, are used in varying degrees in other games as well. 

 

We see a ton of games taking bits and pieces of this into their design basically. I get why people say Halo is a big deal for FPS's in general, it practically revived FPS's by making it popular through lan and online play on consoles, much how Goldeneye 64 was the Multiplayer experience people flocked to before it. Yet, CoD reinvented the wheel in how they did multiplayer online FPS by borrowing role-playing elements to mix things up. GTA really pushed the boundaries of an open world while Bethesda keeps improving on that, Minecraft is emblematic of the social aspect of gaming and creativity, and every indie under the sun has emulated that formula in some form. 

 

Yet through all that, we see Mass Effect reaching around them all bit by bit. Telltale games, Bethesda, and CD Projekt Red have used elements found in Mass Effect to push their own products, nothing wrong with that either, but it is noticeable and I would argue very impactful for the future of gaming, let alone RPGs. BioWare has also taken from other sources to improve their own games too; the dialogue system has seen a lot of changes based on feedback as an example. The keep in Dragon Age is probably the best solution to solving the issue of save-imports that we have. It's constant evolution of the mechanics and design that helps to keep it relevant too, and if it is successful, then others will follow suit. 


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#95
Former_Fiend

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Like I said, Bioware has had a definite impact on the gaming industry. But you spread that impact out over the eight years since ME1's release and it puts things in perspective. 

 

Star Wars' impact was immediately evident. The fact that, as you claim, eight years later ME is "well on the way" shows that it isn't going to get to that same level. 

 

I'm inclined to agree with those saying "Mass Effect is the Mass Effect" of this generation, because - especially in today's Triple A gaming industry, we just won't be able to see that immediate impact on the industry that we saw with Star Wars, and like Il Divo said, the structure of video games vs film is a hurtle to overcome in regards to it permeating pop culture in the same way. 


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#96
DaemionMoadrin

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Marketing tells us that you can't let franchises incubate so they can become well known later. You need to build up momentum and then you never stop because every break is a risk for losing your audience.

 

Star Wars had nowhere the competition Mass Effect has today. Entertainment is everywhere, can be accessed without much trouble or cost and then there is so ****** much of it, no one can consume it all. Back in the '70s and '80s people didn't have those choices. The watched a movie once a week, had maybe a dozen TV channels (I think it was 3-4 in Germany at the time) and otherwise they read books. There wasn't much that could have displaced Star Wars in the minds of the people.

 

Mass Effect is at a huge disadvantage... and it just isn't as good as Star Wars. While both franchises have their fair share of nonsense, magic disguised as science and the whole space thing, Star Wars has the better story. Granted, it's not original and George Lucas borrowed most of it from other movies and novels but the people who told Lucas to shut up and do as told managed to turn it into a classic. (Leaving Lucas to his own devices resulted in the prequels which would have bombed if it wasn't for the original trilogy and the massive fandom watching them anyway.) Star Wars is more accessible and the movies are passive entertainment while Mass Effect is active. Which means it's automatically less popular because of the higher requirements. 



#97
Queen Skadi

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Without getting too much into objectivity, I think another aspect to consider is: do you have to go out of your way to explain the reference? The Avengers release: Iron Man at one point tells Hawkeye to "Clench up Legolas". He doesn't outright say it's a Lord of the Rings reference. In my theater, this was done to huge laughs. I can't say a Mass Effect reference would have been done to similar effect. 

 

Yeah I don't imagine Tony Stark asking Captain America to wait for a bit due to being in the middle of some calibrations would get quite the laughs.


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#98
Jorji Costava

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If nothing else, it did popularize the concept of the save import. I can't recall any game having ever done that before, not one particularly well known anyway. BG1 let you import character stats (and nothing else) while KotOR 2 let you decide that Revan was either completely evil or good, via dialogue but that was all.

 

On the other hand, a lot/most of the import system was handled poorly not to mention the plot felt cobbled together/poorly planned, but I can't say I ever thought that the first series to incorporate this mechanic would have a chance in hell of turning out well. It's kinda how I look back at BG1: great ideas for its time, very bland execution. 

 

For whatever it's worth, the Quest for Glory series was the first to feature a save import system AFAIK (it's also one of my favorite series of all time).

 

Regarding whether ME is the Star Trek or Star Wars of its day, I'd say it's probably closer to Babylon 5 than anything, like a few other posters have indicated upthread. Like B5 and Star Trek, ME doesn't have any overtly fantastical or supernatural phenomena like the Force. In common with B5 and Star Wars, ME is anchored in the Hero's Journey and keeps technobabble to a relative minimum.

 

I think it was probably never in the cards for ME to make the same kind of cultural inroads that Star Trek or Star Wars have made. The reason is that video games are a high-investment medium. You have to learn some clunky mechanics (hello, ME1 inventory system), and you have to dedicate a significant amount of time to playing them (I can't find it now, but I remember reading somewhere that around 2/3 of Dragon Age: Origins players did not finish the game).

 

These constraints mean that single-player RPGs are a niche market relative to other forms of entertainment like movies or TV shows. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, or speaks to the quality of any of these franchises (I could nitpick at the flaws of ME all day, but I could easily do the same for Star Trek and Star Wars); just making some random observations.


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#99
LinksOcarina

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Like I said, Bioware has had a definite impact on the gaming industry. But you spread that impact out over the eight years since ME1's release and it puts things in perspective. 

 

Star Wars' impact was immediately evident. The fact that, as you claim, eight years later ME is "well on the way" shows that it isn't going to get to that same level. 

 

I'm inclined to agree with those saying "Mass Effect is the Mass Effect" of this generation, because - especially in today's Triple A gaming industry, we just won't be able to see that immediate impact on the industry that we saw with Star Wars, and like Il Divo said, the structure of video games vs film is a hurtle to overcome in regards to it permeating pop culture in the same way. 

 

I do agree on that, it is a hurdle in the end, although it is slowly eroding as we go forward and games become more accessible.

 

If the movie they make is a success though it might push it further. I guess we shall see.



#100
BatarianBob

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ME might have more in common with Trek, but when you're trying to move product, comparisons to a similar failed product isn't the greatest idea.