172 réponses à ce sujet

[Quarian Master Race]

Star Wars wishes Star Wars was as good as fanboys think Star Wars is.
Half of the movies outright suck and Return of the Jedi is borderline crap, only saved by the siege on Jabba's palace and the fight between Vader and Luke. The Ewok's are 13x goofier than the Gungans.


This list is dildos. Stargate is better than Trek? Get real. Rewatch Stargate. It's a terrible movie.

More than half. Only the original and Empire were actually good. Jedi was crap except for the moments you've mentioned (space battle over Endor wasn't too bad for its time), and the Ewoks were an obvious attempt at pandering to children. Everyone hates on the gungans (for good reason, mind you) but at least they aren't sentient fuckіng teddy bears. That battle where they defeat the Stormtroopers and their giant walking tanks by tickling them with sticks is one of the most ridiculous things in cinema and only fanboys/girls could possibly defend it. The themes were idealistic good is good and stupid evil is evil and.....that's about it. They realized this and tried to introduce some political intrigue in the prequels via the psuedo-historical allegory to the Roman Republic-Empire transition, which was so hamfisted in delivery that it made them even worse. The first two were utter shіt, and the 3rd one was better than Jedi but still not really all that great.

There are some good things to come out of the setting (plenty of games like Rouge Squadron, Battlefronts, Bounty Hunter, KotOR, Zahn's Heir to the Empire novels), but it is perhaps the most overrated science fiction universe there is. I probably wouldn't even include it in my top 10 scifi franchises now that most of the better things about it (sans ANH and Empire) are now officially non-canon. Like Lucas says, its a franchise for kids now, unequivocally good heroes defeating stupidly evil villians with a bit of space magic.

SG-1 was passable, and actually started to get good in the last couple seasons (when the Farscape duo showed up to carry it). Everything else in that universe is pretty meh, including the movie.

[Former_Fiend]

Halo didn't shape jack. Don't get me wrong, Halo is awesome and it definitely proved that shooters on consoles are supposed to be taken seriously (before Halo, the FPS genre was mostly limited to PC only), but Halo didn't really do anything new or different. It didn't really shape anything other than what I just mentioned.

If you want to look at the most influential first-person shooter of all time, look no further than Call of Duty.

 

You don't need to have invented something to popularize it. GTA didn't invent the open world concept, but the plethora of open world games that came out in the wake of GTA III were still aping it, not what came before.

 

You are right that Call of Duty has definitely since usurped Halo's position as the top FPS, but for a lot of years, Halo was the measuring stick for the FPS genre.

[Han Shot First]

Star Wars isn't really Sci Fi.

 

It is a fantasy series set in space. 

[WildOrchid]

That said, the Asari are basically Delvians down to the mind merge.

 

Nice.

[Killroy]

Star Wars isn't really Sci Fi.
 
It is a fantasy series set in space.

Not unlike Mass Effect, which is more fantasy than sci-fi.

[MrFob]

Not unlike Mass Effect, which is more fantasy than sci-fi.

 

I wouldn't classify ME that way. Sure, it has it's space magic moments (like the ending) but they are fairly rare. Usually ME tries to relate all of it's larger than life occurrences back to the physical world, which for me is kind of the premise of SciFi. Sure, Element Zero is a fantastic element but within the ME lore, it is described as a physical phenomenon, which can be explained by science (note, their science, not hours, just like the handeling of antmatter with the help of Dilithium crystals can only be described by the science within Star Trek).

 

Star Wars on the other hand leans more towards fantasy because the magical power of the force is beyond scientific description even within the universe itself. It does not have a physical presence, or explanation, nor does it need one, it just is. In fact, such an explanation would probably demean it (see the outrage about the midiclorians, although they still do not explain a thing by the way, they just allow quantification of strength with the force). Since the force and the resulting conflict between its users is the main premise on which the SW universe is built, that fantasy aspect is essential and fantasy is the backbone of this universe. Not so for ME.

[Teddie Sage]

I think ME is a mixture of both ST and SW, to be honest.

[Mdizzletr0n]

I wouldn't classify ME that way. Sure, it has it's space magic moments (like the ending) but they are fairly rare. Usually ME tries to relate all of it's larger than life occurrences back to the physical world, which for me is kind of the premise of SciFi. Sure, Element Zero is a fantastic element but within the ME lore, it is described as a physical phenomenon, which can be explained by science (note, their science, not hours, just like the handeling of antmatter with the help of Dilithium crystals can only be described by the science within Star Trek).

Star Wars on the other hand leans more towards fantasy because the magical power of the force is beyond scientific description even within the universe itself. It does not have a physical presence, or explanation, nor does it need one, it just is. In fact, such an explanation would probably demean it (see the outrage about the midiclorians, although they still do not explain a thing by the way, they just allow quantification of strength with the force). Since the force and the resulting conflict between its users is the main premise on which the SW universe is built, that fantasy aspect is essential and fantasy is the backbone of this universe. Not so for ME.

Nah. Still fantasy, breaux

[aoibhealfae]

I thought it was Babylon 5 of our generation. 

[Altair_ShepardN7]

Nah. Still fantasy, breaux

What do you want?

Interstellar the Video Game?
Michio Kaku and Stephen Hawkins' The Universe?
Physics - The Video Game based on the best selling 13th edition of Physics?

Or are those also too fantasy?

[Killroy]

What do you want?

Interstellar the Video Game?
Michio Kaku and Stephen Hawkins' The Universe?
Physics - The Video Game based on the best selling 13th edition of Physics?

Or are those also too fantasy?

Having magic like biotics and holograms that can shoot flames, electricity and ice tends to nudge Mass Effect more into fantasy territory. Having a sciencey-sounding explanation for magic doesn't make something not magic.

[Former_Fiend]

Having magic like biotics and holograms that can shoot flames, electricity and ice tends to nudge Mass Effect more into fantasy territory. Having a sciencey-sounding explanation for magic doesn't make something not magic.

 

That doesn't make it fantasy. That makes it a very soft sci-fi. 

 

The difference between science fiction and fantasy isn't strictly a matter of how grounded in reality they are. There are fantasy settings far more grounded in reality than Star Trek, for example. 

[goishen]

I will say this.   Those who love ME, love it for life.  I'm willing to say this is about 3/4 of the people out there.  They are huge mega-fans.  Boisterous, as well.

 

Those who are meh...   Sure, they exist, but they don't come here.  I'm willing to say that they are about 1/8th of the population. 

 

Those that hated the game?  Another 1/8th of the population.

 

Compare this with SW and even Halo.  A ton of people didn't like SW when it first came out.  A ton of people still don't give a **** about it.  Maybe that's because it reached a wider audience.  But I'm thinking that if they actually got to play, like we did with Commander Shepard...   They would be hooked.

 

So, I think that SW actually did ME a disservice. 

 

"Oh great, another space game.  Just like SW all over again."

[Altair_ShepardN7]

Having magic like biotics and holograms that can shoot flames, electricity and ice tends to nudge Mass Effect more into fantasy territory. Having a sciencey-sounding explanation for magic doesn't make something not magic.

 

What do you want?

Interstellar the Video Game?
Michio Kaku and Stephen Hawkins' The Universe?
Physics - The Video Game based on the best selling 13th edition of Physics?

Or are those also too fantasy?

[Kabooooom]

Having magic like biotics and holograms that can shoot flames, electricity and ice tends to nudge Mass Effect more into fantasy territory. Having a sciencey-sounding explanation for magic doesn't make something not magic.

Sufficiently advanced technology is (usually) indistinguishable from magic.

So, having such things doesn't bother me one bit. I find it somewhat absurd to be bothered by them, honestly. It just makes ME softer SciFi, and at least it attempts to explain it.

It is the parts with no attempt at explanation, like the Crucible endings, that are straight magic. And one could argue that when an apparently advanced technology violates even the sensibilities of a fictitious physical universe, that it qualifies not as tech but as lore-breaking magic.

[DaemionMoadrin]

More than half. Only the original and Empire were actually good. Jedi was crap except for the moments you've mentioned (space battle over Endor wasn't too bad for its time), and the Ewoks were an obvious attempt at pandering to children. Everyone hates on the gungans (for good reason, mind you) but at least they aren't sentient fuckіng teddy bears. That battle where they defeat the Stormtroopers and their giant walking tanks by tickling them with sticks is one of the most ridiculous things in cinema and only fanboys/girls could possibly defend it. The themes were idealistic good is good and stupid evil is evil and.....that's about it. They realized this and tried to introduce some political intrigue in the prequels via the psuedo-historical allegory to the Roman Republic-Empire transition, which was so hamfisted in delivery that it made them even worse. The first two were utter shіt, and the 3rd one was better than Jedi but still not really all that great.

There are some good things to come out of the setting (plenty of games like Rouge Squadron, Battlefronts, Bounty Hunter, KotOR, Zahn's Heir to the Empire novels), but it is perhaps the most overrated science fiction universe there is. I probably wouldn't even include it in my top 10 scifi franchises now that most of the better things about it (sans ANH and Empire) are now officially non-canon. Like Lucas says, its a franchise for kids now, unequivocally good heroes defeating stupidly evil villians with a bit of space magic.

SG-1 was passable, and actually started to get good in the last couple seasons (when the Farscape duo showed up to carry it). Everything else in that universe is pretty meh, including the movie.

 

Yep, I always say Star Wars is incredibly stupid while also being quite awesome. Seriously, lightsabers are cool even when they make no sense at all. ^^

 

Star Wars isn't really Sci Fi.

 

It is a fantasy series set in space. 

 

Yes, it's basically a classic fairy tale in space. Especially the first one, which stands fine on its own. The following movies changed it retro-actively by introducing the Sith, changing Darth Vader from a name to a title, making Luke & Leia twins etc...

 

Not unlike Mass Effect, which is more fantasy than sci-fi.

 

It is extremely soft (I'd even say squishy) sci-fi. On the Mohs scale of sci-fi hardness I'd give ME a 1.5 rating at best. It makes things up as it goes, the rule of cool overwrites established science all the time and BioWare changed the galaxy around to fit into their universe. Whoever rated it higher on TV Tropes clearly has no clue.

[Steelcan]

Sufficiently advanced technology is (usually) indistinguishable from magic.

unless its just actually magic

[Dubozz]

It could be but something went terribly wrong in the last 10-40 minutes. Now it's just a joke in the internets.

[EmissaryofLies]

Complete noob to Star Wars and Star Trek; just started watching them this year. Kotor got me into Star Wars and the Stargate series indirectly got me into Star Trek. Because of the Kotor games, I can definitely see a resemblance between ME and Star Wars. However, Star Wars is more fleshed out and has a body of work that was here before I was even born. ME is a strong contender for the title, but it needs....more. I think that in time, I will be able to confidently say that ME is the successor to the Star Wars series. 

[Larry-3]

Star Wars = Space Opera
Star Trek = Science Fiction
Mass Effect = ... Science... Opera... ?

If you are just going by the episodes, then really you are only seeing the tip of the iceberg. Star Wars really shines in the novels. Anyway, about technology: any technology can seem like magic if it is advanced enough. Also, Star Wars does not need to deal with racism because most people and places do not judge people for their race. Only the Empire was really racist, and they changed their ways post-Civil War.

[Arcian]

Confession time: I think the KotOR games were better than the original Star Wars trilogy. There, I said it.

What's the point of confessing something that is objectively true? That's like confessing you believe in the laws of physics.
 

Star Wars = Space Opera
Star Trek = Science Fiction
Mass Effect = ... Science... Opera... ?

Star Trek is also space opera. Neither Star Wars or Star Trek should be considered science fiction because both have violated the laws of physics countless times.

Mass Effect is ALSO space opera, but unlike Star Wars and Star Trek it is also science fiction because it adheres very closely to the laws of physics, with the Mass Effect phenomena itself being the only exception. At least, it was until Casey and Super MAC shat all over the science part...

[Killroy]

Neither Star Wars or Star Trek should be considered science fiction because both have violated the laws of physics countless times.

Yeah, that's not what makes science fiction. If that were the rule then nothing has ever been science fiction.

[Former_Fiend]

I remember back in middle school my biology teacher explained to the class that ER or any other hospital show could be considered science fiction given that it's fiction that deals with medical science. Looser definition, but those shows do generally adhere to the laws of physics.

 

Having said that, I would like to point out to those who may be unfamiliar with it, the Mohs Scale of Science Fiction Hardness, which rates how "hard" the science part of the science fiction is, with a 1 being not at all, and a 6 being non fiction and thus bound by the actual laws of physics in our universe. Mass Effect is currently rated as a 4, "One Big Lie", stories that add in one or very few additional laws of physics or work arounds of them, but otherwise remain fairly grounded, with ME's titular mass effects being the case here. Star Wars is rated as a 1, Science in Genre Only, and Star Trek is rated as a 2, World of Phlebotinum.

 

I'd also point out that Science Fiction and Fantasy aren't entirely mutually exclusive. One only has to look at the Marvel universe where you have Iron Man, the product of science fiction, on the same team as Thor, a mythological god. While I'd be inclined to label the Star Wars films as fantasy due to their story structure and focus - as mentioned, they're essentially a fairy tale - the Star Wars universe on the whole is really more sci fi, if soft sci fi, than fantasy, with force users such as jedi and sith being a distinct minority, but it is still a universe where the supernatural force and straight up magic exists. Other such settings include both Marvel and DC, Warhammer 40k, and Shadowrun.