31 réponses à ce sujet

[Qun00]

It's true that the Chantry is to blame for the prejudice against mages in a general sense, but any sane person would say no to human sacrifices and making deals with demons.

That said, it's nasty anyhow. I'd probably kill a Reaver, just for having bad taste.

Nah.

Darkspawn blood is disgusting, but drinking dragon blood is just badass.

[Inkcharm]

I think what you have to consider here is that a lot of the secrets are either Duncan's personal fault, or at the very least to be blamed on Ostagar failing so spectacularly. Yes, the Joining is a big secret - and as a poster before pointed out, one that could easily be remedied by letting Recruits know about the long-term ramifications and the immediate danger of dying potentially, which is what the Warden-Commander does in Awakening and is much more fair game. They wouldn't have to TELL people what exactly it is they're drinking.

 

But remember many information you should have had before get lost in the crazy of Ostagar. Yes, Duncan should have informed you about the details - and Alistair just takes so long because he's still an emotional mess, understandably. But also remember hat Riordan was VERY surprised at how little both Alistair and the Warden knew - and they only knew so very little because Ostagar wiped out the Fereldan Wardens except for those two, who in turn knew very little being so fresh to the order. 

 

Duncan fucked up by not being a bit more forthcoming, and I like to believe that in Awakening, the Warden course-corrects how the joining should be done accordingly, to be more fair towards potential new members.

[sylvanaerie]

I think what you have to consider here is that a lot of the secrets are either Duncan's personal fault, or at the very least to be blamed on Ostagar failing so spectacularly. Yes, the Joining is a big secret - and as a poster before pointed out, one that could easily be remedied by letting Recruits know about the long-term ramifications and the immediate danger of dying potentially, which is what the Warden-Commander does in Awakening and is much more fair game. They wouldn't have to TELL people what exactly it is they're drinking.

 

But remember many information you should have had before get lost in the crazy of Ostagar. Yes, Duncan should have informed you about the details - and Alistair just takes so long because he's still an emotional mess, understandably. But also remember hat Riordan was VERY surprised at how little both Alistair and the Warden knew - and they only knew so very little because Ostagar wiped out the Fereldan Wardens except for those two, who in turn knew very little being so fresh to the order. 

 

Duncan fucked up by not being a bit more forthcoming, and I like to believe that in Awakening, the Warden course-corrects how the joining should be done accordingly, to be more fair towards potential new members.

 

Ostagar only excuses Duncan for not telling the new recruits (PC, Daveth and Jory).  Which in my mind was damning enough, but then to have not informed Alistair about how the archdemon is killed--if asked he says "you cut off it's head"--but to keep it dead the slayer has to be a Grey Warden, something Duncan neglected to inform Alistair of in the half a year he was a warden prior to the events that recruit the PC.  There's secrets and reasons for why they keep it secret, but aside from 'story purposes' which is Bioware's doing, Duncan keeping that piece of information under wraps during a Blight, when information is vital was the height of stupidity.  

 

But it didn't come as any great big surprise to me when revealed.  When he asks "Have you ever wondered how it's done" my wardens always say "I assume it had to do with the taint in us" which is the only logical conclusion that can be drawn.

 

Most of the 'secrets' in the game, once revealed, become moot.  Both Leliana and Wynne reference the Joining, with Leliana even talking about the darkspawn blood used in it.  But Anora also references the Joining's potential lethality in the middle of the Landsmeet, when Riordan suggests it right in front of a room full of nobles!  Secret, my dimpled fanny.  I think the issue isn't so much the wardens as it is Bioware milking it for shock value at the beginning.  Once the value to the secret is gone, suddenly everyone and his mabari knows what and how the Joining is done, and no one seems to care about keeping it secret.

[andy6915]

Most of the 'secrets' in the game, once revealed, become moot.  Both Leliana and Wynne reference the Joining, with Leliana even talking about the darkspawn blood used in it.  But Anora also references the Joining's potential lethality in the middle of the Landsmeet, when Riordan suggests it right in front of a room full of nobles!  Secret, my dimpled fanny.  I think the issue isn't so much the wardens as it is Bioware milking it for shock value at the beginning.  Once the value to the secret is gone, suddenly everyone and his mabari knows what and how the Joining is done, and no one seems to care about keeping it secret.

 
Uh... I'm calling BS on this. I've played DAO so many times that I've lost count, I've seen every scrap and shred of dialogue the game has to offer. Yet not once have I had Wynne or Leliana actually reference the joining.
 
Even if they do, they could have been told off screen by Alistair or your own character.
 
And Anora only said that the joining is often fatal, she gave no specifics. And that part isn't secret, many people know that the joining can and does kill. It's how and why that people aren't meant to know.

That's a fair point on most accounts.

It's particularly infuriating on my Dalish though... since he goes out of his way to keep secrets. And she isn't very happy about humans keeping cures from her, destroying Eluvians, telling her not to search for Tamlen, and running around the forest to begin with. And then to make matters worse, he presents the Joining as a cure for her disease that will save her and her clan, only to find out later it's a death sentence and just makes you have insane nightmares anyhow, later from Alistair. And that he kills Ser Jory, when all the guy wanted to do was care for his wife and little baby. This probably does more damage than keeping secrets. The best she can hope for is living long enough to wallow in filth and her own feces, like Ruck... and maybe feed off darkspawn flesh and spiders.


Lets just say that she doesn't care for Duncan and worship the ground he walks on, like Alistair does.

Sure, it isn't a TRUE cure. But it still bought you at least a couple of decades. This is like saying-

"they said the liver transplant I got 30 years ago would save me, but here I am having liver complications. The last 30 years that the new liver gave me were clearly a waste."

It's sodding stupid. It not being an absolute cure doesn't diminish the fact that it let you live for many many years longer than the mere week left to live you would have had without becoming a warden.

[sylvanaerie]

 
Uh... I'm calling BS on this. I've played DAO so many times that I've lost count, I've seen every scrap and shred of dialogue the game has to offer. Yet not once have I had Wynne or Leliana actually reference the joining.
 
Even if they do, they could have been told off screen by Alistair or your own character.
 
And Anora only said that the joining is often fatal, she gave no specifics. And that part isn't secret, many people know that the joining can and does kill. It's how and why that people aren't meant to know.


Sure, it isn't a TRUE cure. But it still bought you at least a couple of decades. This is like saying-

"they said the liver transplant I got 30 years ago would save me, but here I am having liver complications. The last 30 years that the new liver gave me were clearly a waste."

It's sodding stupid. It not being an absolute cure doesn't diminish the fact that it let you live for many many years longer than the mere week left to live you would have had without becoming a warden.

 

Leliana references this when she asks you about "Alistair's performance".  If you have never romanced him, you wouldn't have heard it.  Wynne tells your PC "you survived the Joining, when others didn't".  Anora does mention it's lethality, something Duncan won't to the new recruits (one of the lines of dialogue you can ask right before the ceremony is "this can kill us?").  If it was that secret, no one should know about the Joining, or how lethal it is.  Alistair won't even tell the new recruit (the PC) about the Joining prior to doing it, so he wouldn't have blabbed to non-wardens.  Even Rendon Howe didn't know what happened to his father, just assumed he ran off (a conversation you have with Nathaniel in Awakening).

 

My point is, they aren't supposed to even know about the Joining, and yet, in those instances when the continuity gods deem it so, then people are ignorant of it, and when it's convenient, they just speak of it matter-of-factly.

 

It's a Bioware thing.  It's all secret until it's revealed and then it becomes a moot point.