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Assassin's skill trees reworked


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#1
TheThirdRace

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Here's my suggestions for reworking the Assassin's skill trees:

JhK4rRH.png

The "names" I've given to each line in the trees are self explanatory, but I'll still explain my reasoning.

Basically, I've tried to keep in mind these things while I made the changes:
  • Each line on the skill trees must have a theme
  • The central line should be filled with passives that you would want all for all builds
  • Get access to abilities earlier, you don't want to be level 16 when that happens
  • Replace as much as possible the passives or skills that have no use whatsoever for the Assassin
So here's the explanation for each tree lines:

Assassination


#1 Starting Skill
No change, same starting skill as usual.

#2 Blades and Death
Replaced Shadow Strike with Mark of Death. I feel Shadow Strike doesn't pack enough damage to be on the Assassination tree while Mark of Death fits the theme quite nicely.

#3 Increase Damage
Replaced Mercy Killing by Looked Like It Hurt. Mercy Killing had absolutely no use whatsoever on the Assassin, she has no skill to panic or put to sleep enemies...

#4 Hard Hitter
This is basically the "old" sixth line except Sneak Attack has been replaced with Bloodied Prey. The Assassin is pretty bad without her abilities so she needs to access them as early as possible. And Sneak Attack is a pretty bad passive considering you should mostly attack from Stealth, for which we have Knife In The Shadows.

#5 Flanking
This line is also very different from the original. The biggest change is the inclusion of Archer's Flanking Fire passive (25% damage when flanking). It does fit perfectly the role of the Assassin, I wonder why it wasn't included from the start. The rest of the line are "flanking" passives already available to the Assassin. Note that Sneak Attack while not really good is at least optional now.

#6 Hard Hitter
Again, this line is very different from the original. This line is all about making it easier to take enemies, be it because they have low health or by reducing their armor. Not much more to say about it since those passives were all available to the Assassin before.


Stalker


#1 Stealth
Much needed changes here, what Stealth's good for without I Was Never Here and Knife In The Shadows?

#2 Specialized Blades
Very different line than before, the emphasis is now on blades. To gain access to abilities earlier, I moved the Poisoned Weapons there. In place of Hook And Tackle, I added Hunter's Throwing Blades because it fits the Assassin theme quite nicely. It also gives her a semi-AOE ability which isn't bad for her.

Hook And Tackle was removed because it is horrible for an Assassin. An Assassin should rely on stealth and positioning, Hook And Tackle brings you to the attention of your enemies by removing stealth then it sends you directly into danger with a very high chance of bad timing and positioning. It's about the worst combination for an Assassin...

#3 Evasion
Very different line than before. Mostly, it was made this way to bring abilities closer so you don't have to be level 16 to finally have a complete build. I kept the original "spirit" of the line by going for an evasion theme.

#4 Disorientation
Only Flank Attack and Dance of Death remains from the original line. Since I moved Knife In The Shadows to the first line, I went for disorientation theme instead. It's also fortunate that I had to find a place for Shadow Strike since I removed it from the Assassination tree. It does counterbalance Flank Attack well, both abilities have an effect to avoid damage after their use and they both deal comparable damage.

#5 Critical Chance
This is pretty much a mismatch of what I moved from other lines. I had 2 passives concerning Critical Chance so I checked if another fitting passive was used by other Rogues. Turns out And Take Them Down fits the bill perfectly. It's supposed to be on characters that can point out the enemies weaknesses to their teammates so what's a better fit than a killing machine on single target? The only other characters having that passive don't really fit much with it. How can the Archer sees that from that far? And how does the Alchemist can know that being more AOE than single target? All in all, it's a better fit on the Assassin than on any other character.

#6 Evasion II
Had to put that somewhere to keep a "standard" amongst the other characters. I find the 5% chance ridiculous when you die in less than 3 hits so unless something is done there, it would be better not to include it in it's current state...


Additional Notes
Hidden Blades cooldown should be reduced from 32 to 24 seconds. It is a core ability to about any build and the cooldown makes for a very weird flow while in battle. Sure it does a lot of damage, but given the high cooldown, a lot of characters can surpass her killing count over time, especially when there's a lot of enemies like in Ferelden Castle. It also weakens her a bit in Nightmare where you can't really go auto-attack everything like in lower difficulties.

Evasion must be made better with an higher percentage chance. 5% is simply too low, you mostly get killed in less than 2 seconds unless you have a lot of promotions. Something like 25% would seem appropriate to me (given reasons under NDA :ph34r: ), it's a 1/4 chance of avoiding 1 attack. Since you usually receive a couple attacks in a short amount of time when you do get hit, it's not that strong either.
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#2
K_A_Rnage

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Like it

#3
kmeeg

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#4
Parachromis

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For the most part, I like it. The assassin definitely needs to be more stealthy. One of my biggest complaints, and I'm sure many others agree, is that when you enter stealth, enemies need to immediately stop targeting you. In the stalker tree, I would move "specialized blades" to the bottom, move 'evasion', 'disorientation', and 'critical chance' up.



#5
BiggyDX

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Hakkon Dagger + Mark of Death + Stealth + Knife in the Shadows + Hidden Blades = Dividing by zero.


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#6
Samahl na Revas

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No issues, when is this being implemented?


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#7
TheThirdRace

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Hakkon Dagger + Mark of Death + Stealth + Knife in the Shadows + Hidden Blades = Dividing by zero.


For 1 target then you're an eternity in cooldown...

Technically, anything is killed with Hakkon Dagger + Stealth + Knife in the Shadows + Hidden Blades to begin with. Adding Mark of Death doesn't add much since dead is dead.

The only place where it could make a difference is some very though mobs on Nightmare and bosses. Not the biggest issue ever to give her some options.

Also, a Reaver or an Archer will out damage her over a period of time. To top it off, they'll hit multiple targets too so it's more than just a bit. An Assassin should be the most damaging for single target.
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#8
JiaJM98

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Lol someone's been putting some effort into this :)



#9
Zorinho20_CRO

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I like it.



#10
TheThirdRace

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Lol someone's been putting some effort into this :)


It's all Dieb's fault with his Hunter skill tree rework thread :angry:


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#11
funmachine

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This is the assassin the people of DAMP deserve and need. Kudos for your work, sir!



#12
Orleone

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Flanking fire is a really good addition, suits her very well and with some hard choices between passives it would add to that range of tweaks.

 

These trees wouldn't make me take her into nightmare though, it also removes all the hard choices about her builds.

 

She needs gameplay tweaks like stealth breaking off targetting, a way of playing outside killboxes without picking up stray aggro from constantly spawning mobs, a way of not getting oneshot because someone else turned a melee unit against you or ran close to you with a steady current of ranged or area spells streaming in. Since the safe way to play her now is keeping tabs on every mob in the level to some degree, the numbers going up with difficulty doesn't help. More killing is done bunched up, if you get involved in that there's very high risk of being hit by area effect or a turning mob.

Someone suggested 1 elusive on stealth, with 1 being her max, i'm into that idea. It wouldn't let her wade into killing fields, but she might stab at the edges without dying.

 

So this moving all the good stuff to the top, while it would ofc help her it wouldn't solve the issues. And that crutch might stop some real sorting out from happening.

I really hope she's sorted out, miss that playstyle a lot.

 

You also seemed to have missed the power of sneak attack. Guaranteed flanking crit, easy to miss and the possibility of adding a sizable damage boost (since 100% crit is cheap) is the core of her damage output in all the builds i've stuck with.



#13
Jaden Erius

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absolutely perfect good sir!



#14
Dieb

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Yeah, keep it up brother!

 

My only thoughts are...

 

1) Is it "allowed" to have passives linked to a starting skill, structure wise? I forgot if another character has that layout to make it fair & just.

 

2) Evade as a "high tier" Passive seems a little disappointing or misplaced. Maybe swap it with Bloodthirst or And Take Them Down?



#15
TheThirdRace

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Yeah, keep it up brother!
 
My only thoughts are...
 
1) Is it "allowed" to have passives linked to a starting skill, structure wise? I forgot if another character has that layout to make it fair & just.
 
2) Evade as a "high tier" Passive seems a little disappointing or misplaced. Maybe swap it with Bloodthirst or And Take Them Down?


1) Yes, a lot of characters has them. Look at the Lego or the Templar for example.

2) We need to stop thinking in terms of "high tier" or "low tier". That's exactly what is the problem currently. By trying to move "high tier" down as much as possible, we get skill trees where you get your 4th ability on level 16 to 18. DAMP is not a game where, in theory, you should play at level 20 so it makes no sense whatsoever to do that. I understand the RPG element behind it, but the MP format isn't suited for that at all. We should strive to make the skill trees better for what MP is, that's why I went for earlier access to core skills. As for Evade, I put it there because it was the only place left where it couldn't harm the player. If it weren't for the fact every Rogue present at launch has this useless passive, I wouldn't have include it to begin with. But seeing the Duelist doesn't have this passive, it might be wise to simply drop it unless it's boosted in a significant way (like 20% or 25% chance instead of 5%).
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#16
Cirvante

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Hakkon Dagger + Mark of Death + Stealth + Knife in the Shadows + Hidden Blades = Dividing by zero.

 

What about Hakkon Bow + Mark of Death + Leaping Shot + Leaping Shot + Leaping Shot + Leaping Shot + Pincushion + triggering the Mark early for bonus damage?

 

Assassin really needs some love.


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#17
BiggyDX

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What about Hakkon Bow + Mark of Death + Leaping Shot + Leaping Shot + Leaping Shot + Leaping Shot + Pincushion + triggering the Mark early for bonus damage?

Assassin really needs some love.


You guys make it sound like I'm saying it's a bad thing lol. I'm fine with it. To me, she should be the one who deals the most amount of damage in the shortest amount of time.

#18
StargeezerTim

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Love it! I always felt "You Were Never Here" was located way too far down in the tree to be of any real use until much later on. As it stands, I can't tell you how often I line up a stealth kill only to have it yoinked out from in front of me and then my regular cooldown on Stealth kicks in.  :wacko:



#19
Cheviot

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The top two passives on the Stealth need to be moved to the bottom, and there could be a couple more extended branches.



#20
TheThirdRace

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The top two passives on the Stealth need to be moved to the bottom, and there could be a couple more extended branches.


Trolling much... or you didn't understand one bit the reasoning... :rolleyes: