Greetings.
I am curious on how different are Dalish mages to Circle mages. Specifically, how different are their training in the magical arts ?
We have seen Circle mages training and curriculum from DAO so we know what is that like but how would Dalish mages be trained and how different would their curriculum be ?
Going off various lore bits and the Dalish mages we meet, the Dalish seem to have more of an emphasis on nature and primal spells, especially earth, fire, and anything involving Sylvans ripping through the party. Circle mages are taught in an academic setting with a series of mentors. Dalish mages are as much the historians and politicians of the clan as they are mages, and they all study under the clan's keeper. Children are shuffled between clans so that everyone has enough mages, and according to Minaeve's backstory some clans leave mage children to die if they have too many. (Which...is odd. 
)
Dalish mages would also seem to be naturally better at cracking elven traps and deciphering legends, but Finn of Witch Hunt proves that the Circle has some pretty extensive knowledge of the same subjects.
Dialogue with Morrigan as a Dalish Warden suggests that some Dalish Keepers have knowledge of shapeshifting, which is either taboo or thought of as a hedge mage practice in the Circle.
I believe it's mentioned that the Dalish try not to entangle themselves with spirits, whereas Circle mages forbid demonology but sort of allow summoning of more peaceful spirits. Tevinter Circles practice binding spirits, and don't frown on necromancy, with blood magic being practiced discreetly by some of the higher-ups, along with flat-out demonology.
But it seems that many of spells are shared, even if the philosophies and focuses are different. That may just be game mechanics muddling things, though. 
*snip*
So based on this information...
1) Circle mage training is very academic in nature, like one you would have in a university or a college. Whereas Dalish mage training is like a more personal mentor-student / master-apprentice style of training.
2) Circle mages learn language, general history, politics and the like in addition to magic. Dalish mages learn Elven language, Elven lore, Elven politicking (because they can be in line to succeed the Keeper) in addition to magic.
3) Circle mages are more theoretical whereas Dalish mages are more practical.
Did I get this right ?
I believe so.
Circle Mages typically only get to use their powers in dire circumstances, like the Blight or a monarch summoning them into the army. So I imagine that a lot of them are pretty combat unready. The Circles remind me a bit of Unseen University in Discworld, where the main point is to keep the wizards from doing wizardly things. 
The Dalish don't hold as much stigma against magic, but they're unlikely to get involved in large-scale warfare. I imagine they have a lot of practice immolating hostile bears, though.
A lot of the finer details haven't come up in the game, so future installments could prove this all wrong. *shrug*
Circle mages also have a lot more experience with enchantment, thanks to the Tranquil.
The Dalish Keepers seem to have a decent grasp of history and magic in general, but with a definite elven focus.
Also, Keepers are more likely to be tan than Circle Mages, as they're confined indoors most of the time. 
I think it's worth keeping in mind that there is probably no such thing as the Dalish mage, given how different the clans are said to be. Most likely share some basic doctrines like the "no such thing as a good spirit" prejudice, and their general lifestyle suggests a more hands-on approach, with less time and means for magical theory and experimentation. The Circle mages have the advantage of libraries and multiple teachers (though Wynne's personal quest suggests that an apprentice has or may have a "main" teacher?) and don't need to worry about day-to-day survival, so I'd expect them to both a wider pool of potential knowledge (except for the kinds of magic that the doctrines they operate under forbid) and time and opportunities for the more theoretical/speculative/experimental magics. That's not to say that the Dalish can't also have a good pool of knowledge overall, but a specific apprentice in a specific clan -- especially in one of the more insular clans -- is bound to be more dependent on and restricted by whatever their Keeper can teach and how they teach, which may or may not mesh well with the apprentice's talents and learning style.
Children are shuffled between clans so that everyone has enough mages, and according to Minaeve's backstory some clans leave mage children to die if they have too many. (Which...is odd.
I thought that was a retcon at first too, because the Dalish were said not to fear magic and cherished their mages. Doesn't sound like it if they are sending them away to go die. But if you think about it, it does make sense...just from a resource standpoint. Who controls the lyrium trade in southern Thedas?
The Dalish are basically isolationist, keeping to themselves, in order to stay out of Chantry control. But that means their access to lyrium would be very limited, and would probably come mainly from black market sources/smugglers, etc. So I bet lyrium is scarce, and therefore their mages would be expensive for them to support with limited trade/lyrium supply. And since Dalish have their own reasons to fear blood magic, that's not an alternative. We know from DA2 Merrill uses lack of lyrium as an excuse for turning to blood magic, which gets her ostracized from her clan. I'm guessing that's not the first time that's happened. So maybe they fear their mages turning to blood magic if they have too many.
So ok sending them off to go "die" seems a little extreme. But maybe they aren't being sent away to go die exactly (that's Minaeve's characterization because she thinks it's a harsh/cold practice)...maybe they are just being sent away like Merrill to go find their own way, or if there is no other clan to take them in, they are expected to go form their own (considering Dalish mages are trained to become Keepers after all). But some don't make it out on their own unfortunately, and end up dead or captured by Templars, etc. And then maybe some Dalish mothers go to the extreme, leaving their own children to die when they are young so they won't have to suffer and go through that. So not a good situation at all.
I think Felassan is a pretty good example of a 'Dalish mage'
I feel like Felassan makes a decent show of acting like one most of the time. When he can be bothered.
I thought that was a retcon at first too, because the Dalish were said not to fear magic and cherished their mages. Doesn't sound like it if they are sending them away to go die. But if you think about it, it does make sense...just from a resource standpoint. Who controls the lyrium trade in southern Thedas?
The Dalish are basically isolationist, keeping to themselves, in order to stay out of Chantry control. But that means their access to lyrium would be very limited, and would probably come mainly from black market sources/smugglers, etc. So I bet lyrium is scarce, and therefore their mages would be expensive for them to support with limited trade/lyrium supply. And since Dalish have their own reasons to fear blood magic, that's not an alternative. We know from DA2 Merrill uses lack of lyrium as an excuse for turning to blood magic, which gets her ostracized from her clan. I'm guessing that's not the first time that's happened. So maybe they fear their mages turning to blood magic if they have too many.
So ok sending them off to go "die" seems a little extreme. But maybe they aren't being sent away to go die exactly (that's Minaeve's characterization because she thinks it's a harsh/cold practice)...maybe they are just being sent away like Merrill to go find their own way, or if there is no other clan to take them in, they are expected to go form their own (considering Dalish mages are trained to become Keepers after all). But some don't make it out on their own unfortunately, and end up dead or captured by Templars, etc. And then maybe some Dalish mothers go to the extreme, leaving their own children to die when they are young so they won't have to suffer and go through that. So not a good situation at all.
I like that you had the opportunity as a Dalish character to reply that your clan didn't do that, which hearkens back to the very fractured and balkanized state of Dalish cultural practice in the diaspora.
Honestly, I also felt like Minaeve's story was added to undermine a Dalish or Vashoth Inquisitor's empirical objection to Vivienne's "Circles are the only solution" claim, making it clear that Circle policies are not exclusively based in Chantry doctrine. It's a small part of what makes me feel like the writing tilts a bit against mage freedom in DA:I, along with things like Fiona's incompetence and the lack of a strong voice from within the Circle institution who argues against Vivienne's depiction of it. Perhaps it was necessary to dispel the lingering ghosts of Kirkwall.
Perhaps it was necessary to dispel the lingering ghosts of Kirkwall.
Which is a ridiculous notion in and of itself, if you actually think about it.
The entirety of the circle was corrupt there, Blood magic and demon summoning to the highest echelons.
Hardly any ghosts left in my perspective, That circle was doomed to kill itself one day.
Did most people side with Mages in DA2? I don't know, maybe they felt like they had to do something to balance things out again. I think they went a little over the top in their portrayal of crazy Mages in DA2, but again, I think they were trying to show the other side after Origins was less favorable to Templars.I like that you had the opportunity as a Dalish character to reply that your clan didn't do that, which hearkens back to the very fractured and balkanized state of Dalish cultural practice in the diaspora.
Honestly, I also felt like Minaeve's story was added to undermine a Dalish or Vashoth Inquisitor's empirical objection to Vivienne's "Circles are the only solution" claim, making it clear that Circle policies are not exclusively based in Chantry doctrine. It's a small part of what makes me feel like the writing tilts a bit against mage freedom in DA:I, along with things like Fiona's incompetence and the lack of a strong voice from within the Circle institution who argues against Vivienne's depiction of it. Perhaps it was necessary to dispel the lingering ghosts of Kirkwall.
I feel like Felassan makes a decent show of acting like one most of the time.
Guest_Chiara Fan_*
Based on Velanna's Keeper specialization (since sadly wasn't available for Lavellan this game! 
) and Morrigan mentioning that some Dalish Clans have shapeshifting abilities similar to her own, it sounds like the Dalish have more nature-oriented magic. I imagine they also have more practical magic for everyday use, not just Ivory Tower Academia.
I thought that was a retcon at first too, because the Dalish were said not to fear magic and cherished their mages. Doesn't sound like it if they are sending them away to go die. But if you think about it, it does make sense...
No, it's a retcon.
Merrill said in DA2 that the Dalish believe all elves used to be magical, and that elves losing their magic is another sign of losing their heritage; that the Dalish value magic and want to encourage magical births because regaining their magic means regaining their lost heritage. She also said there have been fewer magical births in recent generations, so most Dalish have trouble finding enough mages to have even a Keeper's First; and that they have to trade mages between clans so every clan can have at least a Keeper and Keeper's First (never mind Second or extra).
Even in DAO, while they didn't mention any shortage of mages (maybe it's not an issue for Zathrien's Clan?), the Dalish still took two city elf mages despite having plenty of Dalish-born mages of their own, and didn't seem to mind having extra mages running around. Lanaya, a city elf who joined the Dalish in late childhood, said she had to compete with many Dalish-born mages to become Zathrien's First. They also took in Aneirin, a Circle runaway, and there was no mention of him being a Keeper's Second.
Then DAI rolls around and suddenly all Dalish Clans have plenty of mages to go around, and they all only want three per clan and will all kick out any extras, even banishing children to die in the woods? (And it's common enough that the Inquisitor can meet Minaeve and "Dalish," two different elves from different clans and backgrounds.)
I call retcon!
I like that you had the opportunity as a Dalish character to reply that your clan didn't do that, which hearkens back to the very fractured and balkanized state of Dalish cultural practice in the diaspora.
Honestly, I also felt like Minaeve's story was added to undermine a Dalish or Vashoth Inquisitor's empirical objection to Vivienne's "Circles are the only solution" claim, making it clear that Circle policies are not exclusively based in Chantry doctrine. It's a small part of what makes me feel like the writing tilts a bit against mage freedom in DA:I, along with things like Fiona's incompetence and the lack of a strong voice from within the Circle institution who argues against Vivienne's depiction of it.
I think that's what it is too.
No, it's a retcon.
Merrill said in DA2 that the Dalish believe all elves used to be magical, and that elves losing their magic is another sign of losing their heritage; that the Dalish value magic and want to encourage magical births because regaining their magic means regaining their lost heritage. She also said there have been fewer magical births in recent generations, so most Dalish have trouble finding enough mages to have even a Keeper's First; and that they have to trade mages between clans so every clan can have at least a Keeper and Keeper's First (never mind Second or extra).
Even in DAO, while they didn't mention any shortage of mages (maybe it's not an issue for Zathrien's Clan?), the Dalish still took two city elf mages despite having plenty of Dalish-born mages of their own, and didn't seem to mind having extra mages running around. Lanaya, a city elf who joined the Dalish in late childhood, said she had to compete with many Dalish-born mages to become Zathrien's First. They also took in Aneirin, a Circle runaway, and there was no mention of him being a Keeper's Second.
Then DAI rolls around and suddenly all Dalish Clans have plenty of mages to go around, and they all only want three per clan and will all kick out any extras, even banishing children to die in the woods? (And it's common enough that the Inquisitor can meet Minaeve and "Dalish," two different elves from different clans and backgrounds.)
I call retcon!
Solas answers this exact question by saying they aren't that different. He says the Dalish mages have a few more practical spells (presumably tied with nature), but mostly it's the same. That would seem to fit in with the fact that in the books and games Circle Mages and non Circle Mage often demonstrate the same types of spells.
It really depends, I can see circle mages, with its vast library, to be more "scholarly" in their pursuits of magic whereas Dalish mages will be much more practical: lifting rocks/debris that obscure path. Using attack spells to protect yourself and others, healing when necessary.
Unless they're the lucky few that get to leave, circle mages might not have that much practical application of their abilities.
At most, I do think that Dalish don't have a taboo against speaking Fade Entities, just don't trust them.
Only thing is that Dalish knowledge of magic is dependant on the information kept by previous keepers and that each clan can only afford to keep a handful of mages.
So based on this information...
1) Circle mage training is very academic in nature, like one you would have in a university or a college. Whereas Dalish mage training is like a more personal mentor-student / master-apprentice style of training.
2) Circle mages learn language, general history, politics and the like in addition to magic. Dalish mages learn Elven language, Elven lore, Elven politicking (because they can be in line to succeed the Keeper) in addition to magic.
3) Circle mages are more theoretical whereas Dalish mages are more practical.
Did I get this right ?
Precisely, as Solas states. Also keep in mind that Circle Mages are limited to the Schools of Magic that the Chantry permits whereas the Dalish have no such restrictions.
I like that you had the opportunity as a Dalish character to reply that your clan didn't do that, which hearkens back to the very fractured and balkanized state of Dalish cultural practice in the diaspora.
Honestly, I also felt like Minaeve's story was added to undermine a Dalish or Vashoth Inquisitor's empirical objection to Vivienne's "Circles are the only solution" claim, making it clear that Circle policies are not exclusively based in Chantry doctrine. It's a small part of what makes me feel like the writing tilts a bit against mage freedom in DA:I, along with things like Fiona's incompetence and the lack of a strong voice from within the Circle institution who argues against Vivienne's depiction of it. Perhaps it was necessary to dispel the lingering ghosts of Kirkwall.
I agree. It seems that Minaeve's account on how the Dalish treat their Mages was retconned into DA:I to balance out biases, but then we see the Avvar Mages as assets to their society in JOH. I, for one, am not willing to just ignore Merrill's account in favor of Minaeve's. It is very possible that they are both in fact true. It has been mentioned that the Dalish clans are all different.
A clear compromise to these two different accounts with the purpose of avoiding a retcon is to accept both as it is very possible the Dalish Clans Merrill was apart of treated Mages differently than the one Minaeve came from. We already know that the Dalish interpret the fragments of their history differently. It is not a stretch to suggest the different Clans handle Magic differently as well.
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