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[Qun00]

When I did Champions of the Just, I started thinking there probably is more to it.

We had this real creepy room with blood drawings on the wall and a bust of Celene on a table, so my first thought was human sacrifice. It looked like Corypheus wanted to use her for some kind of ritual.

If not, what was the point? They say it was to cause instability in Orlais, but in that case wouldn't killing Gaspard be just as important?

Celene's death alone can't be the ultimate goal if it can be easily solved by replacing her with someone else.

If there were further plans to ensure that the throne would remain empty or be occupied by a follower of Corypheus, we'll never know. Florianne's ambition was ruling the world, not Orlais.

[Pokemario]

Corypheus wanted to kill Celene and blame Gaspard, so that Orlais would have been left leaderless.

[TEWR]

Celene's death would've resulted in Gaspard being blamed for it and arrested, naturally leading to Florianne assuming control of Orlais to fill the power vacuum as the only relative left (Celene and Gaspard both are childless. At least I think he is). Florianne would help Cory's plans to take over the country.

 

Florianne's ambtion to rule the world is ambition yes, but that doesn't mean she's not gonna start somewhere. Besides, all of Corypheus' ambtious followers have delusions of being god-kings in Thedas. Look at Erimond.

 

...still upset the writers didn't have the Warden arc and the Orlais arc intertwine together. I have such thoughts on how magnificent it could've been! Would've also helped to give players actual incentive to feeling like the Wardens need to be banished -- since all they did was use blood magic, on their own people, to summon demons to help do their job. And while that's a bad thing it hardly screams "you have betrayed us all!!" to me.

[Ariella]

Celene was the primary target, but reality was it was a decapitation strike in that it was going to kill most of the court. Thus the ball.

[Vit246]

I've been thinking.

So because Orlais falls, every other country falls too? Personally this smacks to me of too much importance on Orlais.

[arelenriel]

You note Corypheus was also moving to take out the other leaders of Thedas at the same time- hence the War Table missions where Venatori have infiltrated the Antivan, and Fereldan Courts and you have to have Zev rescue the Antivan royals and send someone to rescue Alistair/Anora .. There are also War Table missions  to your characters race and background  such as the elven missions for your clan that indicate the Venatori are trying to cause chaos in Orzammar/Kal Sharok, Wycome, Ostwick, and Par Vollen. Removing the worlds leaders and either taking over himself or having puppets like Alexius, Samson, Calpernia, Erimond etc would create the red lyrium future .. and enforce his control of Thedas

[Face of Evil]

So because Orlais falls, every other country falls too? Personally this smacks to me of too much importance on Orlais.

 

In terms of pure military strength, it is the strongest human nation in Thedas. And if Orlais is in chaos, Corypheus has no significant opposition to taking control of the Well of Sorrows in the Arbor Wilds.

[TEWR]

I've been thinking.

So because Orlais falls, every other country falls too? Personally this smacks to me of too much importance on Orlais.

 

Orlais and Nevarra both serve as bulwarks against Tevinter. Ferelden is too crippled by the Blight, the M/T War, and now the War with Corypheus. The Free Marches aren't united and thus would be easy prey. Tevinter probably wouldn't care much about the Anderfels, as they're struggling to get by as it is, while Rivain and Antiva would also be able to be taken down (there was a codex basically saying if a nation were to invade Antiva, they'd probably win).

 

So with only Nevarra standing as a bulwark should Orlais fall, it makes sense why Tevinter would take control of the world.

[Shienis]

Orlais and Nevarra both serve as bulwarks against Tevinter. Ferelden is too crippled by the Blight, the M/T War, and now the War with Corypheus. The Free Marches aren't united and thus would be easy prey. Tevinter probably wouldn't care much about the Anderfels, as they're struggling to get by as it is, while Rivain and Antiva would also be able to be taken down (there was a codex basically saying if a nation were to invade Antiva, they'd probably win).

 

So with only Nevarra standing as a bulwark should Orlais fall, it makes sense why Tevinter would take control of the world.

 

This and you also have a war table operation that says Venatori are trying to infiltrate Nevarra too. It's called "Serpent of Nevarra", I believe. So Cory doesn't depend on the assassination only. And Orlais is currently in that ideal situation that killing the ruler would dissolve it completely, so it's easier to kill one person than trying to infiltrate the court.

[Ariella]

I've been thinking.
So because Orlais falls, every other country falls too? Personally this smacks to me of too much importance on Orlais.

Welcome to Thedas' version of a superpower. Orlais is on a downward slide, much like the Imperium before it, but it has cultural, religious, economic and military primacy at the moment.

If Orlais crashes rather than declines naturally there's a vacuum that can be exploited.

[Korva]

@arelenriel: This global scale of the threat is one of the (many) things that I wish the game had emphasized/explored more, yes. The war table was an interesting innovation, but it often feels disconnected from the rest of the game because it rarely has any tangible effects.

 

Still, Cole's words in that room during CotJ made it sound like Corypheus harbored some personal dislike for Celene, instead of her "merely" being the supposed biggest roadblock. Which struck me as kind of odd since with his truly godlike arrogance, he didn't seem to be the type to invest any emotional energy in a mere sleeper gnat from a mongrel empire. Maybe he loathes her because she's the embodiment of the "outrage" that an empire of mere-sleeper-gnat-mongrels "dared" to replace his precious Tevinter as the strongest nation in Thedas?

[Ulv Elskeren]

I have to side with the OP on this one.  

 

Destabilizing Orlais to provide opportunity for Tevinter is an obvious goal with obvious consequences... but that's exactly the problem.  It's obvious.  The room OP mentions suggests something more than simple political maneuvering, as does the following cryptic Cole-quote:

 

Cole:  "Empress Celene. He hates her, haunts her, wants her dead, but hides why. He hid other things, too."

 

Attempted assassination being a powergrab is hardly a "hidden" motive.  It's so direct, it's pretty much a well-established part of The Game.  Cole's suggestion, on the other hand, makes his motive sound almost personal.  This isn't just a matter of simple political expediency-  Corypheus hates her.   Wants her dead, but hides why.

 

Not to get too deep into tinfoil hat theory, but it brings to mind a quote from the Divine at the Temple of Sacred Ashes:  "Why are you doing this?  You, of all people."   The contextual assumption is that she's speaking to the Grey Wardens under Corypheus' control.  That she might be directing the question to Corypheus himself opens up some interesting possibilities in terms of the Chantry's most tightly-held lore, and the Divine's relationship to larger forces at work.

[Korva]

@Ulv Elskeren: Yep, you said it better than I did.

 

It would have been awesome if WE&WH had revealed the hidden motivation. Things like that help a story feel like a story, connected, instead of just a string of missions. I saved Celene but never read the novel she was in, and it would have helped me feel something of a connection with this character who was left very shallow by the game's writing. We could have bonded a little -- as much as a ruler and master of the Game allows herself to bond with anyone -- over being Corpyheus' two primary targets, both in a logistical sense and in the personally-invested-in-their-demise sense.

[Master Warder Z_]

I've been thinking.

So because Orlais falls, every other country falls too? Personally this smacks to me of too much importance on Orlais.

 

It's the undisputed strongest economic, militarily and culturally human civilization in existence.

 

So...if that Empire falls, bad things happen to everyone.

[Vit246]

Stupid question, but what about the Qunari? What, they got overwhelmed too?

[Master Warder Z_]

Stupid question, but what about the Qunari?

 

Not a primarily Human society plus its too far north to matter much in the scheme of geography really.

 

Orlais sits across from the Free Marches, Borders Fereldan and Nevarra and it's proximity to these places gives it the economic strength that Celene flaunts as their greatest asset, Truthfully though? It's their massive population, natural resources and martial traditions dating back to the days before the second blight that make it strong.

[LightningPoodle]

To throw Orlais into disarray. Orlais has a pretty strong army, and would give Cory pause, slowing him down on his quest for world domination. However, if he kills the leaders of Orlais, the army will not be as strong and so, won't be much of a threat.

[thats1evildude]

Besides the overarching goal of destabilizing Orlais, I suspect Corypheus might have bore a grudge against Celene because Orlais had supplanted Tevinter as the most powerful nation in Thedas.

[Heimdall]

Besides the overarching goal of destabilizing Orlais, I suspect Corypheus might have bore a grudge against Celene because Orlais had supplanted Tevinter as the most powerful nation in Thedas.

That seems the most likely answer.

 

I prefer IHW as a source for this intel, finding that room always felt out of place in CotJ.

[Master Warder Z_]

 finding that room always felt out of place in CotJ.

 

No more so then time travel

[FiveThreeTen]

That seems the most likely answer.

 

I prefer IHW as a source for this intel, finding that room always felt out of place in CotJ.

It's pretty random and super cartoony but I have to agree with Warder on that one. Time travel is even worse for me. It's just too much of a scretch. It completely takes me out of the story.