293 réponses à ce sujet

[Broganisity]

I like it in Deus Ex.

I don't like it in conjunction with the tried-and-true interface we have in Mass Effect. I'd rather they make the options more clear than to label them as 'patronize' then have the text below.

[Queen Skadi]

I like it in Deus Ex.

I don't like it in conjunction with the tried-and-true interface we have in Mass Effect. I'd rather they make the options more clear than to label them as 'patronize' then have the text below.

 

I think you are missing the point, it is not about changing the paraphrasing but giving the player the option to see the actual dialogue before chosing the the paraphrased option.

[Joseph Warrick]

I prefer paraphrases. For me it helps to bring the character the life. I enjoy a lot the expectation of what the crazy Inquisitor will say in SWTOR.

[Sidney]

"Help me oh great hero?"

1. Yes
2. No
3. More info

Now, is there ever a scenario out of this where knowing exactly what is said matters? Seriously, can you word "no" so your goody good hero won't say yes? Let's face it the vast overwhelming majority of dialog isn't shades of intent they are stark yes no type choices.

Then toss in that at least half the dialog isn't even that type of dialog but the inquisitive stuff where you are asking to see goods, getting information and so forth where it really doesn't matter what you are going to say because if you wan to see what the vendor has for sale....that is it.

I find it hard to believe given these type of scenarios that otherwise intelligent people struggle to divine the intent of the paraphrasing.

[Torgette]

Yeah I would buy that it was less enjoyable. To be honest, I would hate this.

 

It would get super old very quickly.

[Danadenassis]

Yes, please!

 

 

There was nothing broken with the previous way. 

I've always found it annoying at best, but confusing and perplexing at times, especially in Star Wars the Old Republic. Some of those chat lines was totally off the mark on what I was expecting and of what I enjoyed. At least with proper chat lines would I be able to predict so I could make a choice, like what I do when I open my own mouth to say something.

[AlanC9]

That doesn't make much sense. Why would such a thing be considered less enjoyable and be removed entirely instead of making it a decision for the player like the dialogue icons which you can remove if you want?

Those are different options producing different results. The toggle for turning icons off gives the player less information, the toggle for turning full-text on gives the player more information. The effects of the two toggles won't be very comparable.

[AlanC9]

To who? I can't imagine it would be less enjoyable than choosing a vague option that ends up saying something completely different to the response you intended? This seems like a best of both worlds feature, while I know David Gaider would call it the "dreaded toggle scenario" we have seen toggles for more extensive features and in all honesty in the grand scheme of things a toggle for this would not be that difficult to do.

Well, like I said, the test data said that it wasn't popular with people playing the test version. I suppose we could put on our tinfoil hats and say that Bio's lying about that, but it's difficult to come up with a plausible rationale for them to do so. It's a pretty low-cost feature as long as the writers don't care how much of a WoT the system throws up -- as mentioned upthread, they've already got the text strings since they're doing subtitles anyway.

Not sure how such a feature would not be a win for everyone?

I can think of a way. Remember, turning the toggle on trades a constant low-level irritation -- repetitive text and speech -- for an occasional more serious irritation when the player's prediction of the spoken line is bad enough to cause an issue. Is the player going to make the right tradeoff there?

We see players make bad choices along these lines all the time. Ever watch some poor fool looking up all the WA locations in ME3 from a list, or worse still, scanning everything, reloading, and then picking up the assets?

[The Arbiter]

Just do it, give an option to see the full line upon hover.

 

I have no idea why this isn't the standard yet. Do it.

 

ahhh Deus Ex one of my favorite games

[Il Divo]

Well, like I said, the test data said that it wasn't popular with people playing the test version. I suppose we could put on our tinfoil hats and say that Bio's lying about that, but it's difficult to come up with a plausible rationale for them to do so. It's a pretty low-cost feature as long as the writers don't care how much of a WoT the system throws up -- as mentioned upthread, they've already got the text strings since they're doing subtitles anyway.

 

That's definitely a factor to consider. Obviously, we want the paraphrase system to be accurate. Giving explicit dialogue like you'd find with a silent protagonist takes care of this problem. On the other hand, the silent protagonist dialogue was said instantly- you're not watching your selected dialogue repeat itself, the game instantly displays the npc's response.

 

How does that function with full VA? Granted, other games (Deus Ex: HR as an example) have done it, but even there the implementation was much more limited since Jensen was much more independent, not to mention he'd often go beyond the player's own words, during the dialogue minigames. 

 

I think that's a solution which works at first, but steadily becomes more irritating as the dialogue wheel is increasingly emphasized. 

[pdusen]

Just do it, give an option to see the full line upon hover.

 

I have no idea why this isn't the standard yet. Do it.

 

That probably sounded like a more compelling argument in your head.

[Enigmatick]

That probably sounded like a more compelling argument in your head.

Don't need those on the BSN. Just gotta get the idea out there.

[Oldren Shepard]

What game is this?

[Deebo305]

Unnecessary.

Ditto

The Paraphrasing in the dialogue wheel is not so unrecognizable that you never know what the PC will be saying

The level of control some people want tends to border on making convos feel completely in-organic and flow less naturally. In the end, everything will come off as robotic if you know exactly what the PC will say word for word

[KaiserShep]

And since when does telling Ashley on Mars "I'm the same person" come out as "Let's bang again, OK?" Is this how people in Canada interpret English?

 

That's hilarious. I was never certain where that dialogue comes up, but FemShep's dialogue in that scene is as the paraphrase suggests. Does the romance affect it any? I've never really romanced her character through to ME3. 

[Queen Skadi]

I suppose we could put on our tinfoil hats and say that Bio's lying about that

 

Personally I was just going to say the judgement of the testers must be flawed, I mean they did give DA2 the thumbs up after all.

[Absafraginlootly]

Yes please, its not every dialogue but when it does happen its unbelievably annoying and immersion breaking.

 

DAI has done the best job of paraphrases in bioware games thus far (and also better then witcher 3 in my opinion I've had quite a few occasions of geralt saying something completely different from what the paraphrase led me to believe), the emotions icons have played their part in that. But even then I'd still wish I could actually choose what my character sais instead of picking the most likely looking paraphrase and hoping, sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't. I could do without the uncertainty and reloading.

 

It would seem good to me if we could have the paraphrase and emotion icons but then be able to right click (or something) the paraphrase to get the full text. That way people who don't want it can just not use it, people who always want it can, and others can choose to use it sometimes when they need it.

 

It would take resources, but so does everything in a game, and in my opinion this is a feature worth devoting them to.

[Chealec]

The paraphrasing has been a severe issue for me for all the ME games (DA not so much). For instance, Ashley says to Liara "Who put you in charge?" and then Shepard is given some choices like "she's right". Who the heck is she? Liara? Ashley? I have no idea. Or when talking to Kirahee and Kaidan says "that sounds dangerous" and then Shepard can say "he's right." Who? Kaidan? Kirahee? Or there have even been times when Shepard has said the very opposite of what the paraphrase says: [sigh] -> "I should kill you both". Huh?!?!? And since when does telling Ashley on Mars "I'm the same person" come out as "Let's bang again, OK?" Is this how people in Canada interpret English?

 

Been playing through ME1 again recently and oh yeah... that's definitely an issue in places.

 

Though, to be fair, sometimes it is hilarious (not always intentionally) when you've got no idea what Shepard is actually about to say - especially when you totally misconstrue context from the badly summarised dialogue wheel.

[cap and gown]

That's hilarious. I was never certain where that dialogue comes up, but FemShep's dialogue in that scene is as the paraphrase suggests. Does the romance affect it any? I've never really romanced her character through to ME3. 

 

I have "paraphrased" MaleShep's line. He doesn't really say "let's bang," but the line he does use is more or less along the lines of rekindling the romance. I was appalled when Shepard said that since I thought I was going to get the FemShep line. But noooooo. Here is Shepard telling Ashley he wants to get back together with her again.

[Lady Artifice]

I'm all about this. I definitely want the consequences of words and actions to be occasionally unpredictable, but I don't want what the protagonist is about to say to be. Sometimes the paraphrase is just a poor representation of the actual dialogue. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

The "whom" is some of the DA2 beta testers. It wasn't clear how early in development they were doing this.

And yeah, they could test it again, but why would testing this time give different results? A plurality of players were apparently bored with reading the line and then hearing it spoken, or some such.

That's why it should be an option, rather than the only available behaviour.

Something needs to be done to give the players a more thorough understanding of the dialogue options among which they are choosing.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Nah... not really needed. The few occasions where a line didn't match a summary were so few and far between, it's a non-issue as far as I am concerned. This seems like an answer in search of a problem.

It happened to me often enough in ME, ME2, ME3, and DA2 that I found myself worrying about it with every single line.

DAI was much better. I'm not sure why. The generally neutral tones may have helped.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Though, to be fair, sometimes it is hilarious (not always intentionally) when you've got no idea what Shepard is actually about to say - especially when you totally misconstrue context from the badly summarised dialogue wheel.

That's not funny. That's infuriating.

If I'm trying to construct and play a coherent character, I cannot have her saying or doing things that contradict other aspects of her personality.

Whenever the paraphrase fails in this way, I must either reload, or just resign myself to no lonher caring about that character or playthrough.

I did a lot of the reloading in ME1. I mostly stopped caring in DA2 and ME2 (which is why I think those were BioWare's worst games by far).

ME3 just has way fewer dialogue wheel events in it, so it's hard to judge on the same scale.

[cap and gown]

 

Though, to be fair, sometimes it is hilarious (not always intentionally) when you've got no idea what Shepard is actually about to say - especially when you totally misconstrue context from the badly summarised dialogue wheel.

 

Actually, in ME1 I get the impression that the "summaries" were written first, then the writers came in and tried to fill out the lines. At least, that is what it seems like. Why else would every dialogue wheel have 3 options when probably the majority of the time 2 of the options will have Shepard say the same thing? Often, the top two options will say the same thing, sometimes the bottom two will say the same thing, and in a few case the top and bottom will say the same while the middle one says something different. Or what about those large number of cases where all three options have the same dialogue? "Dream" "Vision" "Nightmare" -> "I saw synthetics, geth maybe, killing organics"

 

It seems as if they had these grand plans for always providing three options, then simply ran out of time or money.

[InterrogationBear]

The paraphrase dialogue wheel will never change because it's one of Bioware's trademarks.

 

They patented it and Yanick Roy is one of the inventors.