176 réponses à ce sujet

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Both of which are completely optional, you don't need to do either one.

 

Yesss I dooo *completionist twitch*

[Sunnie]

Yesss I dooo *completionist twitch*

Ha ha! Me too! I have multiple 100% PTs.

[House Lannister]

The problem is, that there are very few quests with quality narrative (anything more than collect/bring/kill thing X and talk to person Y with barely any dialogue and backstory I consider quality narrative here) - especially when you compare their number to the overall size of the game.

 

There are basically 0-5 such quests per zone - with zero in Forbidden Oasis (entire area is nothing more than Shard collecting, place to deposit your shards, 1-2 fetch quests and several Rifts). 

Other zones are a bit better - Crestwood has one quest (excluding main story stuff), but it's long and interesting. Western Approach has a few, but they are mostly short and connected to exploring areas and hunting a dragon. Hinterlands have barely anything. Storm Coast has one - and so on.

The other issue is that basically in all area quests, there are no choices to be made. You just follow a linear path of waypoints, with scarce dialogue, kill some enemies and sometimes go back to the quest giver. 

 

There are companion quests (1 per companion, others relate to bringing them items/killing their enemies in random places), a nemesis quest, main storyline... and that's basically it. There's this huge, beautiful, expansive world, and it's filled in 90% with very shallow content. 

That's the worst offence of DA:I, right next to it's final mission and ending.

 

And this is a shame, because they showed that they can write and execute excellent quests, with "In Hushed Whispers", "Champions of the Just", "In Your Heart Shall Burn", "Here Lies the Abyss" or "Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts". It's just a pity that they didn't put even 10% of the effort that was put into those quests, into regular side quests within the world. Because of that, all that beautiful scenery and variation in landscape feels... wasted. 

 

They sadly did the exact opposite of what DA2 did. In DA2, we had interesting narrative (or at least a narrative at all!) in almost all quests - but the lack of variation in location, and fighting the same enemies on the same maps killed that game. On the other hand, Inquisition has varied enemies, and vastly different, interesting and huge environments, with very little of value to do.

 

I'm waiting for DA4 to get it right. 

 

Nail on the head really.

[House Lannister]

Sure, but there are still plenty of little things that you don't have to do to advance the story or anything. Plenty of ingredient gathering and treasure finding. And you can safely bet that every second of it has been counted by CDPR to reach their thirty hour total. All game companies count those things, because it's better for advertising.

 

lol

 

That's like two very small things compared to their very exciting side quests. Dragon Age is filled with get 10 ram meat, get ring, get 5 apostate caches. etc.

[X Equestris]

lol
 
That's like two very small things compared to their very exciting side quests. Dragon Age is filled with get 10 ram meat, get ring, get 5 apostate caches. etc.

They're there, and they are undoubtedly being counted to reach the 30 hour total for the expansions. As someone pointed out earlier, the Witcher 3 has plenty of little, grindy things in it. And in neither case, TW3 or DAI, do you have to do them if you don't want to.

Also, let's not pretend that DAO didn't have these sorts of sidequests in abundance.

[Aulis Vaara]

They're there, and they are undoubtedly being counted to reach the 30 hour total for the expansions. As someone pointed out earlier, the Witcher 3 has plenty of little, grindy things in it. And in neither case, TW3 or DAI, do you have to do them if you don't want to.

Also, let's not pretend that DAO didn't have these sorts of sidequests in abundance.

 

Oh by Odin's Beard... having things to do != grindy. Being forced to do them to progress your game is.

[House Lannister]

They're there, and they are undoubtedly being counted to reach the 30 hour total for the expansions. As someone pointed out earlier, the Witcher 3 has plenty of little, grindy things in it. And in neither case, TW3 or DAI, do you have to do them if you don't want to.

Also, let's not pretend that DAO didn't have these sorts of sidequests in abundance.

 

That's the thing though. They're not optional. You have to get power to progress in the game.

[Dabrikishaw]

You need 60 Power, max, to finish the games story. That's far less sidequesting than you actually need to do relative to the amount of Power available in the game.

[Ashaantha]

*rolls eyes* they are optional, if I complete every sidequest in the main game (and close every rift, killed the 10 dragons for 3 power each) I end up with over 300 unused power which i can't spend on anything... side quests give on average 1 power each. You definitely do not need to do them all, or really only need maybe a handful done, to progress the main story and therefore they are completely optional.

[Aulis Vaara]

*rolls eyes* they are optional, if I complete every sidequest in the main game (and close every rift, killed the 10 dragons for 3 power each) I end up with over 300 unused power which i can't spend on anything... side quests give on average 1 power each. You definitely do not need to do them all, or really only need maybe a handful done, to progress the main story and therefore they are completely optional.

 

No, which ones you do is your choice. You don't have a choice in having to do farm for power.

[Ansea]

You can't really compare the production costs of the base game to those of the DLC. The base game will sell more units, so the cost per unit is less, and therefore the amount they have to charge for the game is less. Plus, assets developed for the base game may be used for the entire base game whereas assets developed for the DLC are not referenced on a game-wide scale. So if they need to spend money to create an animation for the DLC, they can only recover the costs through the DLC. If they needed separate ladder models for the Hinterlands, the Emerald Graves, the Forbidden Oasis, the Emprise du Lion, the Western Approach, the Fallow Mire, and the Hissing Wastes, the game would have cost a lot more.

 

I do understand some of your arguments but it's also working on the other way. Teams are trained to use the assets, the tools to manipulate, to create contents, to make QA are already ok. Some assets could be reused and if they have correctly thought about how assets interact between them, (by from the beginning appropriate choice of design) they could spare a lot of time and money. As they are seasoned developpers, I am pretty sure they avoid the vast majority of the common traps of designing systems which are too specific.

 

Maybe I am wrong but I am still convinced that this kind of DLC is still a bit too expensive at a price of 15$ because they (you will have to buy more than one) tend to be mandatory (Cf the vilain of DA:I which comes from a DLC of DA2) to get the full experience.

[Dabrikishaw]

If the only complaint is the Power mechanic existing at all, fine. No one cares to stop you from belly aching over something like that.

 

The second you go any further, don't be supposed if people start disagreeing with you.

[Avejajed]

Side quests = Side quests

Basically the same in every game I've ever played. Go here, collect that, kill this, come back.

This isn't something Bioware is the first to do, so I don't know why everyone's still crying over it.

[House Lannister]

*rolls eyes* they are optional, if I complete every sidequest in the main game (and close every rift, killed the 10 dragons for 3 power each) I end up with over 300 unused power which i can't spend on anything... side quests give on average 1 power each. You definitely do not need to do them all, or really only need maybe a handful done, to progress the main story and therefore they are completely optional.

 

They're obviously not optional if you have to do them to get the power. Not saying you have to do all of them but you still have to do a bit. Unfortunately the side content is just bland. 

[X Equestris]

That's the thing though. They're not optional. You have to get power to progress in the game.

Are you really telling me that closing rifts and setting up camps is that bad? That will get most of what you need, and doing the main quests in each zone will probably get the rest. For the Hinterlands, that's clearing out the mage and Templar strongholds at either end of the zone.

Oh by Odin's Beard... having things to do != grindy. Being forced to do them to progress your game is.

And you don't have to do most of the "boring" things anyway. Setting up camps, closing rifts, doing the main quests of the zone, and capturing Keeps will probably get what you need. You know, stuff the Inquisition should be doing anyway.

[Jester]

You need 60 Power, max, to finish the games story. That's far less sidequesting than you actually need to do relative to the amount of Power available in the game.

Arbor Wilds+Winter Palace+Adamant, require 100 Power alone. 

Apart from that, it's unlock Crestwood and Western Approach for 16, Templar/Mage mission for 15, Adress the Chantry costs 4 and closing the Breach requires 1.

 

That's 136 points. You also need to unlock Storm Coast for 8 to get Iron Bull - That's 144 points total, for doing nothing but main missions and to get companions. 

Unlocking all zones cost additional 73 points, putting it over 210.

I've never had any problem with power, but you do need more than 60, even if you count the powre possibly gained by finishing main missions. 

 

Side quests = Side quests

Basically the same in every game I've ever played. Go here, collect that, kill this, come back.

This isn't something Bioware is the first to do, so I don't know why everyone's still crying over it.

Compare side quests in Inquisition (or a lot of side quests in Origins for that matter...) to side quests in The Witcher 2&3, Skyrim, Fallout: New Vegas, Baldur's Gate II etc. 

If you still think that it's exactly the same type of side quest, than we just have to agree to disagree. 

Hell, compare them to DA2 secondary quests (disregarding the fact, that they all happen in the same 5 locations). 

 

They're there, and they are undoubtedly being counted to reach the 30 hour total for the expansions. As someone pointed out earlier, the Witcher 3 has plenty of little, grindy things in it. And in neither case, TW3 or DAI, do you have to do them if you don't want to.

Doubtful. They promised 100 hours of main game, and they delivered - grinding stuff does not count into that, as it requires at least additional 50 hours to complete every Gear Hunt, Scavage Hunt, question mark on the map, etc. 

 

If it turns out, that their expansions have in reality 15 hours of quality content, and the rest will be grinding, I will be the first one to feel cheated - because it's would not be up to the standards I came to expect of them. 

[uzivatel]

I end up with over 300 unused power which i can't spend on anything...

Really wish there was some optional stuff that could be exchanged for excess power (if there is, I managed to miss that).

[Dabrikishaw]

Arbor Wilds+Winter Palace+Adamant, require 100 Power alone. 

Apart from that, it's unlock Crestwood and Western Approach for 16, Templar/Mage mission for 15, Adress the Chantry costs 4 and closing the Breach requires 1.

 

That's 136 points. 

I stand corrected. Thank you for doing so.

[House Lannister]

Are you really telling me that closing rifts and setting up camps is that bad? That will get most of what you need, and doing the main quests in each zone will probably get the rest. For the Hinterlands, that's clearing out the mage and Templar strongholds at either end of the zone.


And you don't have to do most of the "boring" things anyway. Setting up camps, closing rifts, doing the main quests of the zone, and capturing Keeps will probably get what you need. You know, stuff the Inquisition should be doing anyway.

 

No because frankly I enjoy the combat and you have to grind anyway especially on nightmare. You have to do it for the exp.

 

However, the originally argument was that the side content on Witcher 3 is the same. Which is a joke because its vastly superior imo. If you feel that gathering 10 rams meat is fun and in the same level as witcher 3's side content then fair enough. That's your opinion and I respect it. But honestly, I feel that there is no comparison.

[SofaJockey]

Side quests = Side quests
Basically the same in every game I've ever played. Go here, collect that, kill this, come back.
This isn't something Bioware is the first to do, so I don't know why everyone's still crying over it.

 

In Baldur's Gate (first 20 minutes)

• Fetch my scroll
• Fetch my book
• Fetch my bolts
• Fetch my sword
• Fetch my antidote (for the sick cow)
• Kill 5 rats

I'll grant that The Witcher 3 has set a new (high) bar for side quests, well done to them.

 

But I wasn't in the slightest bit disturbed by the Baldur's Gate quests back then.

And I wasn't offended by the ram meat and druffy quests in DAI...

[Lebanese Dude]

No because frankly I enjoy the combat and you have to grind anyway especially on nightmare. You have to do it for the exp.

 

However, the originally argument was that the side content on Witcher 3 is the same. Which is a joke because its vastly superior imo. If you feel that gathering 10 rams meat is fun and in the same level as witcher 3's side content then fair enough. That's your opinion and I respect it. But honestly, I feel that there is no comparison.

 

Just gonna quote myself.

 

 

 

The bulk of the relatively simple quests occur in the Hinterlands when they make most sense.

At that point the Inquisition is relatively young. At that point you are still an agent of the Inquisition who is gathering influence and power for your organization by any means necessary. It's relatively simple to know what quests have "content' as opposed to those that don't.

After the Hinterlands, each zone has only one or two true fetch quests that still have some context that allows degrees of roleplaying, like the two fetch quests in Exalted Plains that are given by a Gaspard and Celene soldier.

 

Even so, many people here completely undermine the importance those little fetch quests have on shaping the character of your Inquisitor. Sure, fulfilling a random woman's wish to release her son's ashes at the edge of the Emerald Graves may seem a trivial task, but it's still a task undertaken by your Inquisitor to realize a characteristic you have assigned for them.

 

In one playthrough, my Andrastian warrior did it out of respect for the Maker. In another, my elven mage pitied the woman despite not believing in the Maker. In a third, my dwarven rogue scoffed at the idea of doing this menial task and moved along.

 

They're even recognized by your characters. Incremental relationship changes as they see a side of your Inquisitor.

 

Honestly it feels that many people here who claim to want immersion don't even bother to do so, failing to even attempt to involve themselves in the quests as trivial as they seem.

 

You claim that the "bulk" of the quests are fetch quests. Ignoring the fact that everything can be classified as a fetch quest if you try hard enough, you'd see that this is not the case.

 

Most of your time spent in DAI is:

 

1) Exploring the areas

2) Developing relationships with your companions, advisors, and major NPCs via dialogue and action.

3) Completing the main missions of the zones (including the temple exploration)

4) Completing the main quest chain intermittently throughout the game.

5) Sealing rifts

6) Collecting materials for crafting / crafting and improving Skyhold

7) Completing trivial side content

 

It's arguable that 1) takes a significant portion of gameplay time. A lot of people here tout that they spend a lot of time doing "fetch quests" when what they're actually doing is traveling throughout the zones in order to complete them. There is literally almost no grinding in the game for completing those quests. They're simply there to guide you throughout the area as you complete the more plot-critical missions. If there are any "grindy" quests, they all occur in the Hinterlands.

Just take the Fallow Mire as an example. You have to find the missing soldiers. While doing that you can clear the marsh of undead by completing a VERY hard kill quest chain to purge the undead influences. You can find and defeat a renegade mage who wrecked havoc on the local populace. etc... You do all that WHILE exploring to find the missing soldiers. 

 

A very significant amount of time is spent speaking to those you know. How much time do you go back to Haven/Skyhold to talk to your allies? How much time do you spend assisting them? True there are some "fetch quests" involved in attempting to make them like you, but  those are purely meant to give a bump to your relationship. They take the role that "gifts" had in DAO, except they're far more nuanced and interesting. There is not much character-building by giving Alistair a runestone, but an Anti-Circle mage might take issue with helping Vivienne recover tomes for the Circle. Someone who despises running errands for people would not help Blackwall, etc..

 

Every zone you enter has a main mission to complete. You go to the Emerald Graves to cleanse the "cult" that is forming there. You go to the Exalted Plains to assist the soliders and that takes a LOT of your time, from clearing out the undead-infested barricades to saving Celene's soldiers from a trap-ridden Elven fort. The questlines in this area heavily relate to the ones in Emerald Graves, so there's some inter-zone story going on here.

Also in the Exalted Plains, you can either develop a symbiotic relationship with the Elven clan or you can go out of your way to **** them over in every shape or form from killing their sacred creatures, to plundering their structures in the name of loot, to giving the Chantry the true account of what happened at the Red Crossing. 

 

The main quests speak for themselves. 

Sealing rifts is the "primary" purpose of your Inquisitor. Complaining about doing those is similar to complaining about driving in a racing game. You're here to stop demons, so stop demons.

 

Crafting takes a major role in Inquisition, offering the character ways to develop their squad in an alternative way. This part is integrated with exploration since you normally collect materials while exploring. Still, you go out of of your way to acquire materials and schematics to upgrade your character and take an active hand in developing your character.

You can upgrade potions and grenades for various effects and purposes. Many times those upgrades are integrated into character development. Is it not better that they are separated?

While exploring, you can collect materials in order to craft those upgrades. Speaking as an RPG player, when I found the first "Crystal Grace" I was happy as hell and went back to Haven to get the upgrade for a potion I wanted.
Crafting gear acts as an alternate form to acquire upgrades for your character. You can develop them in any way you wish and create your own unique style. 

 

Only after all this do I consider the time spent on fetch quests. Even the most basic of "fetch quests" from unlocking astrariums to collecting shards have relevance. The former gives you detailed codex entries regarding previously unknown lore and history, while the latter gives you character upgrades in a concentrated location to serve as some game-spanning mystery to solve. What's the deal with Solasan?

 

Is anyone going to claim that fetch quests took MOST of their gameplay time? They're lying. In fact I'd make the bold claim that the same people who call DAI a "fetch quest extravaganza" also dislike exploration and would prefer linear quest chains like in DAO.

 

That's fine, but DAI was marketed as an exploration-heavy game. As I said before in a previous post, this is how the game is. It's not a fault, so either deal with it since you bought it, or move on to another game that is more aligned to your interests.

 

[House Lannister]

Those are good points you raise actually.  

 

But again, I was just comparing it to Witcher 3's side content which I enjoyed a lot more.

[Lady Ishtar]

Ha ha! Me too! I have multiple 100% PTs.

If it was any other game it would be funny but when it comes to DAI is cost my soul (and 120~150 depending on my luck with Sulevin) to make a 100% save.
In all fairness if I was able to skip content I would not completely hate Inquisition, so I will take 50% of the blame.

[Wulfram]

Average price of Bioware story DLC in £s


(not including freebies)

The sales we've been offered so far just put them more or less in line with the ME3 DLC. The sharp increase in DAI DLC price is I believe a UK thing, though. And I am making an assumption about the £ price of Descent being the same as JoH

[Lebanese Dude]

Those are good points you raise actually.  

 

But again, I was just comparing it to Witcher 3's side content which I enjoyed a lot more.

Well you enjoy what you like. We all have different interests.

 

Dragon Age side content has always revolved around malleable protagonists and their relationships with their companions. The narrative is steered by the protagonists personality and background, as well as the desires and hatreds of the companions. The overarching story is important, but the story often serves as a medium for your expressions and interactions

 

The Witcher on the other hand simply wants to tell Geralt's story. This leads to a more direct form of storytelling. While Geralt obviously has relationships with his companions, they're ultimately irrelevant to the player's input on the narrative. 

 

The two approaches are different to the point that a comparison isn't really warranted to begin with.