60 odpowiedzi w tym temacie

[Snakebite]

How about the whole quitting forfeits all exp? Generally speaking, I don't give a crap if someone leaves the round, 9/10 times it's due to the game itself crashing, or technical issues, and the other 1/10 is real life issues. So someone drops out a game, they don't get any bonuses to their prestige or inquisition rating, cool. But how about you get the exp for the areas you were in? I hate spending 5 waves of time to get booted, then have someone else join in and gank my exp. Why don't you just say that the exp gained is shared between all team members, and you gain an equivalent and relative amount based on the time you were in that lobby?

Logic, no? 

Edit: Not booted as in voted to be kicked, just booted in a general sense.

 

I would like to see a system where experience gains are saved at the end of each zone when the door is opened.  If you get dropped in zone 4, at least you still get 3 zones worth of experience.  A new player that came in at zone 4 would then get the experience that the team gained for zones 4 and 5.  Everyone that was in for the whole game gets an entire games worth of experience instead of losing out of the gains from the player who was dropped.

 

Essentially, save experience in a similar way to how gold is saved, except with checkpoints at each door.

 

I don't know if this would be possible or not, but I don't see why it wouldn't be.

[Sulaco_7]

Bioware:

 

* Fix the virtuoso's framerate problem *

* Fix the virtuoso's framerate problem *

* Fix the virtuoso's framerate problem *

* Fix the virtuoso's framerate problem *

* Fix the virtuoso's framerate problem *

* Fix the virtuoso's framerate problem *

* Fix the virtuoso's framerate problem *

 

Please?

[Kalas Magnus]

working as intended™

soon™

notontheoldgen™

[MagicalMaster]

If you get dropped in zone 4, at least you still get 3 zones worth of experience.

 

I think this is precisely what Bioware wants to avoid -- they don't want someone who thinks the team will fail on wave 5 to just instantly drop after wave 4 gold payout and leave the other three people in the lurch.  I was shocked to find out that doesn't apply to gold/items too -- I figured it would.

 

...of course, that general design principle is harder to defend with the disconnection issues and errorless CTD fun...

[Snakebite]

I think this is precisely what Bioware wants to avoid -- they don't want someone who thinks the team will fail on wave 5 to just instantly drop after wave 4 gold payout and leave the other three people in the lurch.  I was shocked to find out that doesn't apply to gold/items too -- I figured it would.

 

...of course, that general design principle is harder to defend with the disconnection issues and errorless CTD fun...

 

The question is, does the person who left or got dropped deserve no experience for their efforts?  Do the people they were playing with deserve to lose that experience also?  Does the person taking their spot deserve a full game worth of experience?

 

I couldn't care less about people leaving when they believe all is lost.  If they are faded or have lost hope, I am fine with them leaving my game if they choose they have something better to do.

 

People leaving mid-match is not a big issue when compared with rampant disconnects and crashes.

[MagicalMaster]

The question is, does the person who left or got dropped deserve no experience for their efforts?

 

If they left, yes.  They already got their gold/items as it is, which I'm not thrilled about in the first place but whatever.

 

If they dropped, no, but having a system that is capable of figuring out the difference between someone actually DCing and someone unplugging their modem is not so easy.  Now think of all the other potential things that could drop a player and how people would try to spoof it.  For most games, assuming that the percentage of times a person would get dropped is extremely small and thus assuming people will be there to the end unless they actually leave is more than reasonable.

 

Does DA:I have significant enough crashing/DCing issues to the point where that outweighs the previous principle?  That's another question entirely.

 

Do the people they were playing with deserve to lose that experience also?

 

No.

 

Does the person taking their spot deserve a full game worth of experience?

 

Do they deserve a full game's worth of XP if they come in on wave 5 with 1 enemy left?  No, not really.  But you also don't want a situation where people try to *avoid* in-progress games because they won't get enough out of it.  Have to load in, load out, go to score screen, go back to lobby, and wait for everyone to ready up (which assumes no one leaves after the game which is a further delay).  Could theoretically do something like give a certain percentage of the missed XP based on percentage of the game played...but is that really worth the trouble?

 

I couldn't care less about people leaving when they believe all is lost.  If they are faded or have lost hope, I am fine with them leaving my game if they choose they have something better to do.

 

That's nice.  A lot of people care a hell of a lot.  Are you familiar with the term "leaver" used in reference to MOBAs, for example?

 

People leaving mid-match is not a big issue when compared with rampant disconnects and crashes.

 

At what point would that change?  If there was a crash/disconnect issue in one out of 100 games, for example, would you still think that?

[Snakebite]

If they left, yes.  They already got their gold/items as it is, which I'm not thrilled about in the first place but whatever.

 

So you take the same side as me on 2.5 of my 3 questions.  You just have an issue with people getting to keep experience that was gained while they were in the game?  Just because they chose to leave early?

 

That's nice.  A lot of people care a hell of a lot.  Are you familiar with the term "leaver" used in reference to MOBAs, for example?

 

No.

 

At what point would that change?  If there was a crash/disconnect issue in one out of 100 games, for example, would you still think that?

 

To me, it wouldn't change.  Like I said, if people decide they don't want to finish a game with me, that is their choice and I am fine with that.  I would not hold a grudge against them because they got to keep experience they earned while they were playing with me.

[ErySakasegawa]

Intentions may work in a normally programmed game. Here we're talking DAMP. I crash in 20% of my games. That's every 5 games in average. Mostly I don't disconnect in Zone 1 but Zone 4 FC! That's way too much time lost... especially on Nightmare. If it's a public game, all exp is lost. This totally needs a fix. Either fix the issues or create a workaround to maintain exp even after getting booted by the game. Playing on PS4. Friends experiencing the same.

[Denrok1]

I would pay an optimal monthly subsciption if it meant the money would go to improve serve stability. Perhaps the people have paid the monthly subscription would get monthly perks.

[ruggie]

Elemental mines detonating as soon as it touches a step (stairs)

Breaking up the game after releasing content for long term players (mostly)

Pride demon, demon commander, dragon all not detonating mines.

Still the same 3 maps.

All the females look gay (Just saying it's kind of weird) except isabela but her bubs got nerfed.

No xp (unable to receive data error)

Loot system. (Finally got my first sulevin today)

No hok for dagger grips or any variety of dagger grip.

I'm sure there's more but that's all I got for now

[StargeezerTim]

The case of the mysterious, randomly disappearing audio bug. That's my biggest grinder o' gears personally. In a solid session of 3-4 hours, I can count on having to reset the client at least once an hour on average due to the audio just taking a powder. And it almost always happens at the start of a match, so I have to go through a whole match watching a Charlie Chaplin movie...with dragons. So not cool.

[MagicalMaster]

Yeah, the audio bug is annoying, though personally I've never had it happen anywhere close to every hour.  Maybe once every day or two.  Assuming you've done things like tried repairing your game files?

 

So you take the same side as me on 2.5 of my 3 questions.  You just have an issue with people getting to keep experience that was gained while they were in the game?  Just because they chose to leave early?

 

It's not simply a matter of "just because they chose to leave early."  This is a team game with a set challenge -- enemies don't become weaker if only three people are in the game compared to four.  If you leave, you're throwing your three teammates to the wolves and leaving them with the terrible choice of "try to finish down a person or wait and hope someone joins sometime soon."  And since this is the internet, the usual social inhibitions that discourage acting like a jerk to people are substantially reduced.

 

Yes, I'm aware that a group better than the difficulty level can finish the run with less than four people.  I can easily solo Threatening on every character already and can solo Perilous on several as well -- and there are people who can solo Nightmare.  But you don't design a game around those scenarios -- you assume that you have, say, a group of four people in Perilous and that group needs all four people in order to not wipe.

 

No.

 

So, a MOBA is something like League of Legends (LoL), DotA (2), Heroes of the Storm (HotS), and so on.  At high end people play matches against other people in usually a 5v5 format (each person controls one hero) but people also sometimes just play versus AI controlled heroes.  Leaver refers to a person who leaves the match early.  In a PvP game that hurts both sides -- the team that now has 4 people is at a major disadvantage and the team with 5 people got cheated out of a fair match.  In a bot game that still hurts the player side since it's now 4 people vs 5 bots.

 

The developers of LoL designed a system called Leaver Buster.  It's purpose is to track and progressively punish people who leave games early.

 

The developers of HotS are apparently designing a system that will intentionally place leavers in games with other leavers.

 

It isn't limited to MOBAs either, similar things can be found in MMOs like WoW where leaving a dungeon gives you a deserter debuff that renders you unable to queue for another dungeon for a while because the other four people have to wait for a fifth (and there's something similar if you ditch a PvP battleground too).  ME3MP didn't give any XP/credits until the end of the match -- leaving early netted you nothing at all (precisely because you're hurting your team).

 

I can assure you that the developers of these games wouldn't be so concerned about making those systems if people leaving early and hurting the rest of their group wasn't a major problem.

 

To me, it wouldn't change.  Like I said, if people decide they don't want to finish a game with me, that is their choice and I am fine with that.  I would not hold a grudge against them because they got to keep experience they earned while they were playing with me.

 

The "grudge" has nothing to do with them getting or not getting XP -- it's due to them leaving you and your other two groupmates in a bad position.  Maybe in the way you play DA:I right now you're never in a game where you can't solo it or do it with two people or something.  Good for you, but I've seen a lot of players in the position of, y'know, actually needing all four people a difficulty was designed around.  And it's those people who get hurt and frustrated by the leavers.

 

Hence why you design the system to encourage *not* leaving (or discourage leaving, however you prefer to say it).  And that's why leavers shouldn't get the XP -- so they have an incentive to stay and at least try to continue until the groups actually wipes (or succeeds).

 

 

[fgabriel]

Why ppls blame server when it's just bad hosts... stop downloading crap when hosting a game...

[Pork]

[Gravija]

dedicated servers pls. oh man if only. that's all i want.

this host system is crinchy sometimes.

[StargeezerTim]

Yeah, the audio bug is annoying, though personally I've never had it happen anywhere close to every hour.  Maybe once every day or two.  Assuming you've done things like tried repairing your game files?

 

I suspect something is happening to crash the audio drivers on the PS4. I hear that distinctive "crackle/click" like when you suddenly pull the headphone jack out of a device. Since it's only game sounds (I can flip over to the PS front end and the sound is still functioning there), I have to assume the game's audio drivers are at fault. Someone recently suggested going into options and fiddling with the settings might "reboot" the drivers, but I haven't tried that yet. Besides, that won't exactly fix my problem mid-match, since there's no way of getting at your settings while in a match.

 

As far as repairing the game files, I believe short of redownloading the game (and at close to 55G, that's not something I would care to do) there's no way on the consoles to repair individual files.

[Havoc49J]

I hope the bug that drops you into the fade on your first death is on the agenda. I've had it happen to me twice in the last hour alone.

[Pork]

For anyone who has the audio bug out, try changing the sound profile in the options. That sometimes fixes it for me without having to restart the entire game.

[JAMiAM]

For anyone who has the audio bug out, try changing the sound profile in the options. That sometimes fixes it for me without having to restart the entire game.

This.  The bug is also on PC, and this will usually fix the problem.  Be careful though.  When doing it on the PC, if you choose to reset to default, it often glitches the lobby back down to Routine difficulty, even though the game still displays a higher level match.  This has happened to me, both hosting, as well as 'fixing' my audio while another was host.

[Snakebite]

So, a MOBA is something like League of Legends (LoL), DotA (2), Heroes of the Storm (HotS), and so on.  At high end people play matches against other people in usually a 5v5 format (each person controls one hero) but people also sometimes just play versus AI controlled heroes.  Leaver refers to a person who leaves the match early.  In a PvP game that hurts both sides -- the team that now has 4 people is at a major disadvantage and the team with 5 people got cheated out of a fair match.  In a bot game that still hurts the player side since it's now 4 people vs 5 bots.

 

The developers of LoL designed a system called Leaver Buster.  It's purpose is to track and progressively punish people who leave games early.

 

The developers of HotS are apparently designing a system that will intentionally place leavers in games with other leavers.

 

It isn't limited to MOBAs either, similar things can be found in MMOs like WoW where leaving a dungeon gives you a deserter debuff that renders you unable to queue for another dungeon for a while because the other four people have to wait for a fifth (and there's something similar if you ditch a PvP battleground too).  ME3MP didn't give any XP/credits until the end of the match -- leaving early netted you nothing at all (precisely because you're hurting your team).

 

DAMP is not a MOBA.

 

DAMP is not an MMO.

 

DAMP is not a shooter, but seeing as we are apparently talking about games that are not even in the same genre as DAMP, I feel like talking about shooters (which I used to play quite a bit).  Of all the shooters I have played (and I have played a LOT), I can only think of one that gave out punishments for leaving early, and even that was nowhere near a severe as a total loss of experience.

 

In PVP, if the opposing team quit (or even if only a few players quit), because my team was crushing them badly enough for them to make that decision, I would view it as an even greater victory than if the opposing team stuck around to finish the match.  When some of my teammates quit, I saw it as an opportunity for me to gain a larger portion of the kills.

 

In PVE, if a teammate quit, then I and the remaining players were short a man, and the enemies would generally get a little bit easier, but not in a noticeably larger amount.  The player who left would generally get their experience and because they spent time contributing and putting forth effort to help the team.

 

What does this have to do with DAMP?  Nothing, because it is a different genre with different rules and different forms of progression.

 

 

The "grudge" has nothing to do with them getting or not getting XP -- it's due to them leaving you and your other two groupmates in a bad position.  Maybe in the way you play DA:I right now you're never in a game where you can't solo it or do it with two people or something.  Good for you, but I've seen a lot of players in the position of, y'know, actually needing all four people a difficulty was designed around.  And it's those people who get hurt and frustrated by the leavers.

 

Hence why you design the system to encourage *not* leaving (or discourage leaving, however you prefer to say it).  And that's why leavers shouldn't get the XP -- so they have an incentive to stay and at least try to continue until the groups actually wipes (or succeeds).

 

And as punishment you feel it is just to strip them of any compensation for their time spent helping you out.  Punishment may be a strong motivator, but it runs counter to the reason people play game; I play games to have fun and be rewarded, as I would assume most people do.  Punishing someone because they may have something else to do or have more pressing needs to see to does not a happy gamer make.

 

I can assure you that the developers of these games wouldn't be so concerned about making those systems if people leaving early and hurting the rest of their group wasn't a major problem.

 

Does DA:I have significant enough crashing/DCing issues to the point where that outweighs the previous principle?  That's another question entirely.

 

Ask around in-game about peoples experiences with crashing as opposed to people leaving early.  Look at posts here on BSN about people complaining about game stability as opposed to people leaving early.  I cannot recall many instances of people complaining about "leavers".  What do you think is the bigger issue?  You shouldn't have to think very hard.

[Zantazar]

All the females look gay ... 

 

Can you translate this please? Do you mean that they look happy? look like homosexuals? or what?

 

Zan the Man has a Plan

[Pork]

Can you translate this please? Do you mean that they look happy? look like homosexuals? or what?

Zan the Man has a Plan

What do you think? Since 'gay' hasnt been commonly used to mean happy in any modern dialect.

Id probably bang Belinda and Luka though, so its a pretty stupid statement to make in any case.

[MagicalMaster]

DAMP is not a MOBA.

 

Actually, in terms of gameplay it's fairly similar to a MOBA game against bots (except, of course, the leveling/items are handled outside of the match and help in future matches).  Four champions (the humans) working together against AI champions (the elite enemies) with minion back-up.  Your group of four has to work together to defeat the other side...which also means someone suddenly leaving can cripple your team.

 

DAMP is not an MMO.

 

Actually, it's pretty similar to chain running dungeons in WoW, for example.  And just like losing a person in those dungeons can cripple your team, the same can happen in DAMP.

 

DAMP is not a shooter, but seeing as we are apparently talking about games that are not even in the same genre as DAMP

 

DAMP is awfully awfully awfully similar to ME3MP in a lot of ways.

 

But what genre would you consider DAMP to be part of?  "RPG" isn't the answer because I've never seen an RPG work how DAMP works.

 

In PVP, if the opposing team quit (or even if only a few players quit), because my team was crushing them badly enough for them to make that decision, I would view it as an even greater victory than if the opposing team stuck around to finish the match.  When some of my teammates quit, I saw it as an opportunity for me to gain a larger portion of the kills.

 

That's nice.  And since your viewpoint is so common, everyone from Blizzard to Riot to Bioware and beyond decided that most people think the complete opposite of what you do.

 

In PVE, if a teammate quit, then I and the remaining players were short a man, and the enemies would generally get a little bit easier, but not in a noticeably larger amount.

 

Enemies don't get easier in DAMP when someone quits (as far as I know, and we're not talking about three players with a fourth faded here).  Enemies didn't get easier when a player quit in ME3MP either.  This really isn't a hard concept -- the person who leaves is effectively forcing the other three people to wait around until someone joins that game assuming that the group is doing a reasonable difficulty.  He's wasting all of their time by doing so -- they'd much rather have had someone who was going to stay join from the start.

 

And as punishment you feel it is just to strip them of any compensation for their time spent helping you out.  Punishment may be a strong motivator, but it runs counter to the reason people play game; I play games to have fun and be rewarded, as I would assume most people do.  Punishing someone because they may have something else to do or have more pressing needs to see to does not a happy gamer make.

 

I never said, not once, that people should be punished for leaving DAMP.  In fact, the only time I used the word punish was referencing LoL -- where people who keep leaving will actually get *banned* (which I am not advocating for DAMP).

 

You seem to be confusing the terms "reward" and "punishment."  Punishment would mean something like losing gold, XP, or promotions as a result of leaving (or being suspended/banned, of course).  And, of course, that's not what happens -- at an absolute minimum you stay exactly the same and, in fact, you currently keep gold/items obtained.

 

And yes, people play games to have fun.  Having to sit around and wait for a new person to join your group because someone else bailed on you is not fun.  That does not a happy gamer make either.

 

Hell, if people could keep XP after leaving in private lobbies I wouldn't care -- those are made by friends with friends and they can handle any potential social fallout.  But public games?  That's another matter.

 

Ask around in-game about peoples experiences with crashing as opposed to people leaving early.  Look at posts here on BSN about people complaining about game stability as opposed to people leaving early.  I cannot recall many instances of people complaining about "leavers".  What do you think is the bigger issue?  You shouldn't have to think very hard.

 

Hang on, what exactly is your position here?  Because you've stated two mutually exclusive ones:

 

A, stability/connection issues are significantly problematic in DAMP to the point where they outweigh the problem of leavers

 

B, even if there were zero (or as close to it as possible) stability/connection issues, people should still be rewarded with XP/gold/items despite leaving early because leavers aren't a problem

 

So which is it?

[Texasmotiv]

I can't recall a time where some random left mid match and it really had any bearing at all on the game. If it was a friend we just wait for them to pop back in.

[MagicalMaster]

I can't recall a time where some random left mid match and it really had any bearing at all on the game. If it was a friend we just wait for them to pop back in.

 

I can, when I was new (I started three weeks ago).  I also remember my friends who convinced me to try DAMP telling me horror stories of struggling/failing to finish Routine due to lacking a 4th person in games and no replacement joining quickly...which is one reason why they wanted me to play.

 

Again, we're not talking about a speed run with 4 characters who could all solo that difficulty without much effort.

 

Hell, I had someone ask me to bring a level 13 Elementalist that I had never played before in Nightmare (and I don't have the gear/promotions to compensate for the lack of levels) to help them finish a NM castle run a few days ago simply because they couldn't get a 4th person once they lost someone.