A truly alien protagonist wouldn't work because we couldn't relate to them. This is also the reason why most aliens in the game show human behaviour.
That's not critical, it could work if writers made one particular alien race playable instead of humans. There are enough of games where you play as insect, undead, yellow thing which eats dots or any other unrelatable thing.
As long as the story is made right and the protagonist feel like a sapient alien capable of love, fear, friendship, rage and trust then I'm fine with an alient only protagonist. I would love being a turian in ME for example.
That's human behaviour again.
That's not critical, it could work if writers made one particular alien race playable instead of humans. There are enough of games where you play as insect, undead, yellow thing which eats dots or any other unrelatable thing.
Were those games RPGs? Undead humans and vampires are still human, too. ^^
That's human behaviour again.
Nope that's your assumption those are strictly part of the human behaviour. While in reality it could be also part of alien emotions. Since we haven't met aliens yet your opinion is as good as mine in this.
Nope that's your assumption those are strictly part of the human behaviour. While in reality it could be also part of alien emotions. Since we haven't met aliens yet your opinion is as good as mine in this.
You are not wrong but that's not exactly what I meant. What we get here aren't aliens, we get pseudo-aliens that are extremely similiar to humans. Actual true aliens that have nothing in common with us would be problematic as protagonists since we couldn't relate to them.
Were those games RPGs? Undead humans and vampires are still human, too. ^^
Mostly not, but how does it matter? Or for you "roleplay" is immersion?
There is little point in having multi-species main protagonists in mass effect because of how personal the stories tend to be. I mean you can have it that way but the immersion takes a hit in my opinion because at the end of the day the non-human species tend to just be human with a nonhuman skin.
I mean look at Dragon age inqusition, when you are playing as a Qunari do you really feel like a Qunari whom are supposedly distinct from the other races.
I mean look at Dragon age inqusition, when you are playing as a Qunari do you really feel like a Qunari whom are supposedly distinct from the other races.
Nah, felt more like I was playing a mercenary as opposed to a noble or a Circle mage.
There is little point in having multi-species main protagonists in mass effect because of how personal the stories tend to be. I mean you can have it that way but the immersion takes a hit in my opinion because at the end of the day the non-human species tend to just be human with a nonhuman skin.
I mean look at Dragon age inqusition, when you are playing as a Qunari do you really feel like a Qunari whom are supposedly distinct from the other races.
Nah, felt more like I was playing a mercenary as opposed to a noble or a Circle mage.
I'd say that the reason for this was, because qunari's and other races were included in the game late and game was first supposed to be human only so lot of dialogues and so on were written in human point of view first and then probaply writers just changes some dialogues and added some Qunari related dialogue options there. Situation would be likely better if qunaris and other races were on the board since the beginning.
I'd say that the reason for this was, because qunari's and other races were included in the game late and game was first supposed to be human only so lot of dialogues and so on were written in human point of view first and then probaply writers just changes some dialogues and added some Qunari related dialogue options there. Situation would be likely better if qunaris and other races were on the board since the beginning.
That's just popular excuse. DAO dialogs weren't much better even with no need for more voice actors.
That's just the thing. It's not a 'huge' desire. It's just a very loud minority. And I'm all the more baffled at their insistence for just that very reason: ME aliens aren't interesting or unique. At all. And even if, by some miracle, BioWare made a genuinely fascinating and different alien species, playing as them would be counter-productive. It would be like playing a Yi-Ti in Call of Cthulhu.
There is an upcoming game called That Which Sleeps that employs something very similar to that example. You play as an ancient Old One, and you seek to reawaken and wreck havoc on the world. It's a very novel concept, but one that wouldn't work in a game like ME. Playing as something that extreme, that alien won't work as part of a selection of racial options. To get it done right you would have to devote the entire premise of the game in order to develop such an altered perspective.
The Ranchi are a good illustration: hive-minded insects that only have organic technology and no ck concept of race, gender and politics as we understand it are "alien".
The Rachni (as of the conclusion of ME 3) are the only surviving (if the player spared them) 'alien' alien in the setting. The Elcor and Hanar have become one dimensional joke races, the Geth have pulled a Pinocchio, the Leviathans are just arrogant jerks with mind control powers, and the Reapers are just mindless RC toys.
I will admit that I would love to play as a Rachni queen in the SP campaign, but as I have said above, unless the game was going to devote its entire story to playing as one then there really is no feasible way that such a scenario could happen and still be satisfactory. What BioWare could do (and should IMO), is give such 'alien' aliens a greater role in the story; no brushing them to the side, no turning them into meme races, no 'fixing' them to be just like us, etc. Let the distinct aliens be unique and alien, and then let us play as them in MP. Give me more explanation of the Rachni in SP and then allow me to skitter around as one in MP, its the best of both worlds (having distinct aliens, while at the same time not derailing the narrative to account for a playable version of said alien).
That's just popular excuse. DAO dialogs weren't much better even with no need for more voice actors.
DAO had help from Origins.
When BioWare confirms human only, I wonder how many would rage.
When BioWare confirms human only, I wonder how many would rage.
?
It has been confirmed already. For quite a while, too.
There is an upcoming game called That Which Sleeps that employs something very similar to that example. You play as an ancient Old One, and you seek to reawaken and wreck havoc on the world. It's a very novel concept, but one that wouldn't work in a game like ME. Playing as something that extreme, that alien won't work as part of a selection of racial options. To get it done right you would have to devote the entire premise of the game in order to develop such an altered perspective.
It's an interesting concept, but I'd like to point out that what makes Lovecraft aliens work is that they are extremely alien in every sense of the word and ultimately unknowable. This might not be so much of a problem if you were to play that kind of alien in say, a strategy game or an open sandbox (which this kind of looks to be). In an RPG, however, you're supposed to empathize with the PC, and empathy is the first step in turning a genuinely alien species into a cheap knock-off of humanity. Playing Cthulhu in a Bioware-style RPG would just ruin Cthulhu. Playing him (or is that Him?) in a different type of game might be fun.
Nonetheless, it is a moot point, because I don't think ME aliens are interesting enough to carry a game on their own. They are in an awkward position where they are pretty much poor carbon copies of humans. Playing as humans in the far future or a fantasy setting is inherently interesting and an easy sell, but they aren't human. But they also aren't distinct enough to carry a game on their own.
If they make them optional it will either be 1) a half-assed effort or 2) a tremendously large investment for a completely unnecessary feature very few people are interested in. Probably both. If they make a game with an alien as the set protagonist, only a tiny portion of hardcore ME fans will be interested in it, which doesn't sound very financially sound. This is why I said is very, very unlikely we will ever see this feature outside of MP. If they feel particularly fanservicey, we might play an alien in a DLC, but I wouldn't hope for much more than that.
It's an interesting concept, but I'd like to point out that what makes Lovecraft aliens work is that they are extremely alien in every sense of the word and ultimately unknowable. This might not be so much of a problem if you were to play that kind of alien in say, a strategy game or an open sandbox (which this kind of looks to be). In an RPG, however, you're supposed to empathize with the PC, and empathy is the first step in turning a genuinely alien species into a cheap knock-off of humanity. Playing Cthulhu in a Bioware-style RPG would just ruin Cthulhu. Playing him (or is that Him?) in a different type of game might be fun.
Nonetheless, it is a moot point, because I don't think ME aliens are interesting enough to carry a game on their own. They are in an awkward position where they are pretty much poor carbon copies of humans. Playing as humans in the far future or a fantasy setting is inherently interesting and an easy sell, but they aren't human. But they also aren't distinct enough to carry a game on their own.
If they make them optional it will either be 1) a half-assed effort or 2) a tremendously large investment for a completely unnecessary feature very few people are interested in. Probably both. If they make a game with an alien as the set protagonist, only a tiny portion of hardcore ME fans will be interested in it, which doesn't sound very financially sound. This is why I said is very, very unlikely will ever see this feature outside of SP. If they feel particularly fanservicey, we might play an alien in a DLC, but I wouldn't hope for much more than that.
I agree with you for the most part. Cthulhu wouldn't work in a BioWare game, at least in a serious, true to Lovecraft sense, and I for one would want more out of a Salarian protagonist than simply being a human wearing a Salarian texture mask. Getting a playable alien to work in ME, including all of the physiological, and cultural differences, would be highly unlikely, and that's only considering the very near human aliens.
Though I would say that not all the races in Mass Effect are poor carbon copies of humanity. The Rachni, at the very least, remain a distinctly alien species that doesn't really have an counter-part in real world humanity. This is probably because the writers created them based off of generally 'alien' concepts than simply going with a slight tweak of an existing human culture. Instead of their 'Planet of Hats' being a warrior race hat like the Krogan, or a scientist race hat like the Salarians, the Rachni had the 'alien' race hat.
I agree with you for the most part. Cthulhu wouldn't work in a BioWare game, at least in a serious, true to Lovecraft sense, and I for one would want more out of a Salarian protagonist than simply being a human wearing a Salarian texture mask. Getting a playable alien to work in ME, including all of the physiological, and cultural differences, would be highly unlikely, and that's only considering the very near human aliens.
Though I would say that not all the races in Mass Effect are poor carbon copies of humanity. The Rachni, at the very least, remain a distinctly alien species that doesn't really have an counter-part in real world humanity. This is probably because the writers created them based off of generally 'alien' concepts than simply going with a slight tweak of an existing human culture. Instead of their 'Planet of Hats' being a warrior race hat like the Krogan, or a scientist race hat like the Salarians, the Rachni had the 'alien' race hat.
I agree the Rachni had potential, but I wouldn't give them too much credit for it. The insectoid, hive-minded aliens must be one of the oldest cliches in the book — Tyranids, Zerg, the bugs from Starship Troopers, the Necrophages from that new TBS game Endless Legend... You get the drill. At least they tried to subvert the stereotype by not giving them the 'eat everything!' attitude.
I find it quite ironic that one of the best alien-but-not-outright-antagonistic concepts I've ever seen are the mulefa from His Dark Materials. That's a fantasy book, though admittedly a very sciency one. What has the world come to? 
I agree the Rachni had potential, but I wouldn't give them too much credit for it. The insectoid, hive-minded aliens must be one of the oldest cliches in the book — Tyranids, Zerg, the bugs from Starship Troopers, the Necrophages from that new TBS game Endless Legend... You get the drill. At least they tried to subvert the stereotype by not giving them the 'eat everything!' attitude.
I find it quite ironic that one of the best alien-but-not-outright-antagonistic concepts I've ever seen are the mulefa from His Dark Materials. That's a fantasy book, though admittedly a very sciency one. What has the world come to?
True, compared to the myriad of other settings out there, the Rachni aren't fairly unique, but in ME they are quite the diamond in the rough; the Hanar and Elcor would be a close second if all of their potential development wasn't tossed out the airlock in favor of more Blasto jokes. 
I also appreciate that the swarming horde of space locusts trope was avoided. I am partial to the 'alien' aliens, and insectiod species are a favorite of mine, but the whole "Nom, Nom, Nom!" thing is about as trite as the whole "Humans are special" plot point (IMO).
You are not wrong but that's not exactly what I meant. What we get here aren't aliens, we get pseudo-aliens that are extremely similiar to humans. Actual true aliens that have nothing in common with us would be problematic as protagonists since we couldn't relate to them.
I eagerly await the video your playthrough using only the soldier class and default weapon with no changes or upgrades, because that's literally what you're lobbying for.
cost
The same straw based stalking horse as "cause reasons"; the cause reasons Skyrim sells 30 million and ME/DA doesn't is because Bethesda allows more latittude in player preference and choice. It's also patently easy to apply flange pitch and reverb to existing voices.
While animations are a different story, they are absolutely doable by any stretch and will in fact have been required to have been done for a large range convering MP/ST to begine with, and the argument of "active usable space" died with the ps3. The reason it isn't being done is BW didn't put in the effort, you can find other games where the effort was put in and no great sacrifices in story nor gameplay or player usability occured.
The argument of "unblanced stats and gameplay" is also meaningless in a world where a power that does 2000 damage to the enemy and gives you back all your shields with a four second cooldown or an ability that gives you 200% weapon damage and negates all enemy targeting exist.
True, compared to the myriad of other settings out there, the Rachni aren't fairly unique, but in ME they are quite the diamond in the rough; the Hanar and Elcor would be a close second if all of their potential development wasn't tossed out the airlock in favor of more Blasto jokes.
I also appreciate that the swarming horde of space locusts trope was avoided. I am partial to the 'alien' aliens, and insectiod species are a favorite of mine, but the whole "Nom, Nom, Nom!" thing is about as trite as the whole "Humans are special" plot point (IMO).
The trope baffles me to this day. This kind of insectoid species is usually presented as the apex of evolution in the stories they appear. If so, evolution screwed up, because I can hardly think of anything less ecological than a species that can and does easily eat all the competition. The closest thing we have on Earth are humans, so maybe Cerberus should be making asari into calamari.
Now that I said that, I can't help but be disturbed thinking what Gardner puts in his food.
I eagerly await the video your playthrough using only the soldier class and default weapon with no changes or upgrades, because that's literally what you're lobbying for.
You keep using that word...
The same straw based stalking horse as "cause reasons"; the cause reasons Skyrim sells 30 million and ME/DA doesn't is because Bethesda allows more latittude in player preference and choice. It's also patently easy to apply flange pitch and reverb to existing voices.
Race selection in Skyrim means jack. It's a purely aesthetic choice. I'm not really surprised you're holding it up as an example, however, seeing as that's all we're likely to get if species selection is implemented.
EDIT: I want to clarify I really mean no offense. I'm just perpetually perplexed at how some people seem to like aliens so much yet are willing to compromise for ridiculously low standards. Just my two cents.
That's human behaviour again.
Were those games RPGs? Undead humans and vampires are still human, too. ^^
A lot of people brought up the issues created by being able to choose your species, but what if you couldn't choose your species, but something other than human? I would prefer drell, but turian I think have the best chance of actually being chosen.
aesthetic
Patently untrue. Each race has differing attributes skills and stats, even if it were simply aesthetic, giving customers what they ask for is how you make money, and the offset of cost-of-production does not add up to mitigating the option in the first place, provided the parent author has accounted for the implementation in the initial design, and the rather stark difference in sales between the two franchises bears that out, nevermind how many times this subject has come up in these forums.
It's come up way more often than any Mako thread has, yet one of these paradigm exists in the game and one doesn't, and the level of associated costs and gameplay logistics spent are probably roughly equal in terms of longterm expenditures.
Linearity and conformity does not beget profitability long term.
To anyone who is arguing against this because of the alienness or humanness of other alien species, have not played the series at all? They're all essentially human! human voice actors, human ranges of emotion, humanlike humor. With a very few exception, the Mass Effect series has never been about aliens that are truly alien -- we even a species that are essentially blue human women, but with tentacle hair.
This is not some hard-scifi series where intelligent aliens evolve to look very different from us (as they actually would, just look at the diversity of life on Earth. Now image life starting on a completely different planet environment, and all the ways evolution could play out), or communicate differently (smells, light patterns, movement of appendages, or strange sounds like whale songs beyond the range of our hearing), or think differently. Mass Effect aliens are essentially humans anyway.
Patently untrue. Each race has differing attributes skills and stats,
Yeah, that´s aesthetic in my book, but then I've never cared much for gameplay. I don't think stats and racial abilities are the reason some people want this feature, and even if it were there would be simpler ways to implement them. What is the actual impact species selection would have on the story? I'll give you a hint. Look at the impact race selection has on DA.
giving customers what they ask for is how you make money
Customers ask for all kinds of stuff, sometimes even stuff that is mutually exclusive. It's far more complicated than just that.
and the offset of cost-of-production does not add up to mitigating the option in the first place, provided the parent author has accounted for the implementation in the initial design,
Do you know how many people played with non-human races in DAI? 20%. A significant minority, sure, if you add up all non-human races. Now consider how much content each of those races actually got.
My point is, it would be just like Bioware to throw in a seriously underdeveloped feature to please a minority of their audience. I am arguing from a do it right or don't do it at all position. Since I very much doubt they can do it right or are even willing to try, I prefer they leave well enough alone.
nevermind how many times this subject has come up in these forums.
This forum is in no way representative of Bioware's audience.
It's come up way more often than any Mako thread has, yet one of these paradigm exists in the game and one doesn't, and the level of associated costs and gameplay logistics spent are probably roughly equal in terms of longterm expenditures.
If you don't care for making a good game and only want to engage in blatant fanservice? Possibly.
Mass Effect aliens are essentially humans anyway.
Hence the question. What's the point in making them playable if they are essentially mock humans? What appeal do ME aliens have to the average player?
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