148 réponses à ce sujet

[KAGEHOSHI-]

Hence the question. What's the point in making them playable if they are essentially mock humans? What appeal do ME aliens have to the average player?

Cosmetic and cultural differences.

 

Anyway, I understand that making content from say 5 different perspectives is resource-heavy, and those resources could arguably be better spent. I have an alternative proposal to playing as human, and to picking your species. I suggest the new protagonist should just be a turian. We've been made to play as human for so long, so I see no problem with being made to play as a turian. This change would not only add novelty, but also give players a new kind of experience of dialogue informed by turian culture, and NPC responses. Personally I would prefer a drell, but turians are very popular, so it would make more sense.

[Gwydden]

Cosmetic and cultural differences.

Okay. I don't think that's a good reason. it's pretty shallow, and alien cultures in ME tend to be bland and generic. I don't think it justifies the effort and I doubt it would be a good investment. But I asked for a reason, and I guess that's one.

 

Anyway, I understand that making content from say 5 different perspectives is resource-heavy, and those resources could arguably be better spent. I have an alternative proposal to playing as human, and to picking your species. I suggest the new protagonist should just be a turian. We've been made to play as human for so long, so I see no problem with being made to play as a turian. This change would not only add novelty, but also give players a new kind of experience of dialogue informed by turian culture, and NPC responses. Personally I would prefer a drell, but turians are very popular, so it would make more sense.

I addressed this already, actually.

 

Very few people (mostly just some hardcore ME fans) would be interested in such a game. I wouldn't buy it myself, and I'm pretty sure I'd be in the majority. The way I see it it's financial suicide, so I very much doubt you will ever see anything of the sort.

 

I don't say it just because I'm not personally interested. If they did release something like that I wouldn't play it, but I wouldn't mind it either. I would just ignore it.

[KAGEHOSHI-]

Okay. I don't think that's a good reason. it's pretty shallow, and alien cultures in ME tend to be bland and generic. I don't think it justifies the effort and I doubt it would be a good investment. But I asked for a reason, and I guess that's one.

 

I addressed this already, actually.

 

Very few people (mostly just some hardcore ME fans) would be interested in such a game. I wouldn't buy it myself, and I'm pretty sure I'd be in the majority. The way I see it it's financial suicide, so I very much doubt you will ever see anything of the sort.

 

I don't say it just because I'm not personally interested. If they did release something like that I wouldn't play it, but I wouldn't mind it either. I would just ignore it.

 

I think it's a good reasons. Human culture is just as bland homogenized in ME, and cosmetics are very important to RPG players.

 

If turians are essentially humans with different appearance and culture, why would playing as one be a problem for you if the game i otherwise full of features that you presumably want? Why would people who aren't ME fans care enough to be dissuaded by anyway? It's not like gaming doesn't already have a history of successful games with non-human protagonists. I think it's presumptuous to assume your opinion represents the majority.

[Gwydden]

I think it's a good reasons. Human culture is just as bland homogenized in ME, and cosmetics are very important to RPG players.

 

If turians are essentially humans with different appearance and culture, why would playing as one be a problem for you if the game i otherwise full of features that you presumably want?

Humans have an intrinsic advantage: we are human. Therefore, we (as in, ****** sapiens in general) tend to care about them and like them and find them interesting by default, even if they aren't particularly well done.

 

Why would people who aren't ME fans care enough to be dissuaded by anyway?

"Announcing the brand new Mass Effect: Andromeda, where you get to play as a scaly avian thing you have never seen before!" Hooked yet?

 

It's not like gaming doesn't already have a history of successful games with non-human protagonists.

How many RPGs with a set human protagonist can you mention? Oh, and no cheating. No games with protagonists that are human in all but name and no scouring the dark alleys of the Internet for obscure games you yourself have never played.

 

I think it's presumptuous to assume your opinion represents the majority.

I would love for official statistics that showed how many players would be interested in a game where you only played a turian, but sadly they do not seem to be available. The closest I do have are the statistics from DAO and DAI, where people chose to play as human four out of five times regardless of how many non-human races were available. And that's in DA, where the other races only non-human characteristics are negligible. Oh, and also, those races are for the most part easily recognizable from pretty much any run of the mill fantasy setting, which cannot be said of ME aliens.

 

EDIT: Seriously? The Latin for 'man' is censored?

[KAGEHOSHI-]

Humans have an intrinsic advantage: we are human. Therefore, we (as in, ****** sapiens in general) tend to care about them and like them and find them interesting by default, even if they aren't particularly well done.

 

"Announcing the brand new Mass Effect: Andromeda, where you get to play as a scaly avian thing you have never seen before!" Hooked yet?

 

How many RPGs with a set human protagonist can you mention? Oh, and no cheating. No games with protagonists that are human in all but name and no scouring the dark alleys of the Internet for obscure games you yourself have never played.

 

I would love for official statistics that showed how many players would be interested in a game where you only played a turian, but sadly they do not seem to be available. The closest I do have are the statistics from DAO and DAI, where people chose to play as human four out of five times regardless of how many non-human races were available. And that's in DA, where the other races only non-human characteristics are negligible. Oh, and also, those races are for the most part easily recognizable from pretty much any run of the mill fantasy setting, which cannot be said of ME aliens.

 

EDIT: Seriously? The Latin for 'man' is censored?

 

So you want to play as human, just because you you're human? That's it? Not a very compelling reason as to why you would miss out on a game that you would otherwise want. I think there is something to the pro-human bias, but like I said before, the aliens are essentially anthropomorphized to the point of being human in all the places it actually counts, so I think you're greatly overstating how much more a human would care about a non-human character. If you were right, characters like Garrus would never become so beloved, especially compared to human characters like Kaiden and musclebro from ME3 (forgot his name). Movies like Wall-E shows that audiences can get very emotionally invested in characters that are much less human than a turian; it starred "a dirty tiny robot thing that looks like a box with treads and eyes that look like a pair of binoculars on a stick lives in a giant pile of garbage."

 

Qunari (playable in DA:I) the Dragon Age series is about as non-human as an asari in ME, Skyrim lets you play as cat person, which is more alien than the asari.

 

On your statistics comment, I never made the claim that my desires represent the majority of players. I'm just pointing out that you can't say that your views do.

 

As for DA:I, what players chose to play as is not conclusively indicative of whether or not they would have bought the game if their favorite option (human) was available. There games where I choose certain options for characters, but I would still have bought the game even if those options weren't available.

 

 

EDIT: going to be away for a while now, so I'll have to continue this endless internet argument a bit later.

[Gwydden]

So you want to play as human, just because you you're human? That's it? Not a very compelling reason as to why you would miss out on a game that you would otherwise want. I think there is something to the pro-human bias, but like I said before, the aliens are essentially anthropomorphized to the point of being human in all the places it actually counts, so I think you're greatly overstating how much more a human would care about a non-human character.

I don't think you're understanding my position at all.

 

What I like about sci-fi is that it speculates about humans in a high tech environment. What I like about fantasy is that it entertains the idea of humans in a magical setting. Aliens are just part of the background,

 

Let me put it this way. Why on earth would I want to play as a carbon copy of humanity, which is what ME aliens are? At the end of the day, I play this games for the chance to roleplay. Not for the gameplay. Not even for the story or the setting, which I don't think are that great. And I'm not interested in roleplaying aliens. Human interests I can relate to. Humans are being kidnapped? Gotta save 'em. Earth is being attacked? Gotta defend it. Humans are escaping to another galaxy? They better survive.

 

Palaven's going up in flames? Who cares? It's just the home of the made up birdish people who are so bland they're most remarkable trait is being cheap imitations of humans. Why would I roleplay a cheap imitation instead of the real thing?

 

So you want to play as human, just because you you're human? That's it? Not a very compelling reason as to why you would miss out on a game that you would otherwise want. I think there is something to the pro-human bias, but like I said before, the aliens are essentially anthropomorphized to the point of being human in all the places it actually counts, so I think you're greatly overstating how much more a human would care about a non-human character. If you were right, characters like Garrus would never become so beloved, especially compared to human characters like Kaiden and musclebro from ME3 (forgot his name). Movies like Wall-E shows that audiences can get very emotionally invested in characters that are much less human than a turian; it starred "a dirty tiny robot thing that looks like a box with treads and eyes that look like a pair of binoculars on a stick lives in a giant pile of garbage."

I don't doubt many people would like to bang an asari. I doubt many would like to be one. Conversely, watching a cute robot and being a cute robot are two entirely different things. Garrus could just have as easily been human and no one would have even noticed. He isn't popular because of his mandibles, he is popular because he was written to be funny, a loyal friend (even if you don't want him to), and to never, ever, ever, disagree with Shepard to any significant extent.

 

Kaidan and James aren't any of those things.

 

Qunari (playable in DA:I) the Dragon Age series is about as non-human as an asari in ME, Skyrim lets you play as cat person, which is more alien than the asari.

Just stop and consider how many people actually played them before you put that argument forth.

 

On your statistics comment, I never made the claim that my desires represent the majority of players. I'm just pointing out that you can't say that your views do.

 

As for DA:I, what players chose to play as is not conclusively indicative of whether or not they would have bought the game if their favorite option (human) was available. There games where I choose certain options for characters, but I would still have bought the game even if those options weren't available.

I admit I can be wrong. As I've said, I don't really care. If they make a game with a protagonist that's set to be an alien I'll just ignore it. But before Bioware decides to make such a game, they would have to make sure there's a substantial enough market to justify making such an investment. And I'm willing to bet that no matter how many people they find who love the idea there will always be more that will prefer to stick with human.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

?

 

It has been confirmed already. For quite a while, too.

Well, it has been confirmed we can play as a male or female human. Bioware hasn't stated that non-human protagonists are out of the question yet.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Well, it has been confirmed we can play as a male or female human. Bioware hasn't stated that non-human protagonists are out of the question yet.

 

Hana... why do you have to argue about everything?

 

http://blog.bioware....fect-andromeda/

 

Quote: "You will play a human, male or female, though that’s actually not the character you saw in the trailer (more on that later)."

 

Does this sentence allow the possibility of playing a non-human? No, it does not. 'You will play a human' is definite and not open to interpretation.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Hana... why do you have to argue about everything?

 

http://blog.bioware....fect-andromeda/

 

Quote: "You will play a human, male or female, though that’s actually not the character you saw in the trailer (more on that later)."

 

Does this sentence allow the possibility of playing a non-human? No, it does not. 'You will play a human' is definite and not open to interpretation.

I wouldn't say we are arguing, just discussing.

Bioware also said that about Dragon Age: Inquisition, yet that game ended up having the most expansive race selection Bioware has had excluding SWTOR. I'm just saying that until Bioware states that there is no chance for the ability to roleplay one of the other species, it's not truly confirmed to not be a feature. 

[Xaijin]

Yeah, that´s aesthetic in my book, but then I've never cared much for gameplay. I don't think stats and racial abilities are the reason some people want this feature, and even if it were there would be simpler ways to implement them. What is the actual impact species selection would have on the story? I'll give you a hint. Look at the impact race selection has on DA.

 

Customers ask for all kinds of stuff, sometimes even stuff that is mutually exclusive. It's far more complicated than just that.

 

Do you know how many people played with non-human races in DAI? 20%. A significant minority, sure, if you add up all non-human races. Now consider how much content each of those races actually got.

 

My point is, it would be just like Bioware to throw in a seriously underdeveloped feature to please a minority of their audience. I am arguing from a do it right or don't do it at all position. Since I very much doubt they can do it right or are even willing to try, I prefer they leave well enough alone.

 

This forum is in no way representative of Bioware's audience.

 

If you don't care for making a good game and only want to engage in blatant fanservice? Possibly.

 

Hence the question. What's the point in making them playable if they are essentially mock humans? What appeal do ME aliens have to the average player?

 

20%

 

and the adoption rate in ME3MP is significantly higher, inclduing having an alien at the top of the selection chart, and the remaining human classes selected having been doen so for because of completely overbalanced utlity [destroyer, demolisher, fury] rather than "humans being preferred". If you want ot start bringing in metrics, the metrics are pretty much in favor of variety; the attendant issue of cost.

 

Pretty interesting you calling it fanservice when the game has made a deliberate marketing push to get old fans back. Also interesting that you consider when it is essentially a wheeled superset of the your protagonist a valid gameplay element and a choice of character that represents a significant chunk of backstory and world building "cosmetic" by contrast. I'm pretty sure the mako much less important than any individual race in presentation and decor.

 

As a game designer I can tell you that the oppostie is true, especailly with the inclusion of jetpacks, rendering the mako even further redundant and a very probabaly waste of logistics. You were saying something about right or not at all?.

[KaiserShep]

As a game designer I can tell you that the oppostie is true, especailly with the inclusion of jetpacks, rendering the mako even further redundant and a very probabaly waste of logistics. You were saying something about right or not at all?.

I doubt the PC will fly around like the rocketeer. More than likely it'll just be something used for quick bursts, sort of like one of the turians in MP. 

[Fizzie Panda]

Somewhere they said that the character(s?) in the trailer didn't represent the main character...

This could possibly mean that there can be alien playable characters.

 

Look at Inquisition, they went from 1 playable race to 4! Who knows...

Food for thought.

[Ahriman]

Somewhere they said that the character(s?) in the trailer didn't represent the main character...

This could possibly mean that there can be alien playable characters.

Nah, human PC is pretty much confirmed. They probably mean that our PC is not N7 (fits that weird "trained but untested" thing from the leak) or that we are not in charge of that ship.

 

Look at Inquisition, they went from 1 playable race to 4! Who knows...

Food for thought.

And lesson was learned, introducing major features during late stages of development is a key to shallowness.

[Fizzie Panda]

Nah, human PC is pretty much confirmed. They probably mean that our PC is not N7 (fits that weird "trained but untested" thing from the leak) or that we are not in charge of that ship.

 

And lesson was learned, introducing major features during late stages of development is a key to shallowness.

Oh well... I guess I usually play humans anyway in Dragon Age. The Mass Effect non-human races are so much more... everything. Asari, Turian, Salarian, Krogan, Geth. I mean... pick one and it's 10x more interesting. In my opinion anyway.

 

Yeah I hate that shallowness.

[Mirrman70]

Oh well... I guess I usually play humans anyway in Dragon Age. The Mass Effect non-human races are so much more... everything. Asari, Turian, Salarian, Krogan, Geth. I mean... pick one and it's 10x more interesting. In my opinion anyway.

 

Yeah I hate that shallowness.

 

The shallowness refers to the lack of difference when playing a race/species other than human. even if they were to just suddenly be like "what the hell lets throw in Asari and Turian as playable characters" they most likely would not be able to implement a significant amount of unique story options for that character outside of a few pointless conversation options. gameplay would most likely not be affected in any significant way (other than the restrictions on what classes the aliens can play).

[Iakus]

 

Qunari (playable in DA:I) the Dragon Age series is about as non-human as an asari in ME, Skyrim lets you play as cat person, which is more alien than the asari.

 

I've played as a human and as a qunari in DAI.  It's not significantly different.  The background occupation (noble for human, mercenary for qunari) had more reactivity than the chosen race.

 

And yeah Skyrim lets you play as a cat person, a lizard person, an orc, etc.  But it's not exactly a deep game.  Racial bonuses aside, you're no different than a human.

[Oldren Shepard]

It's going to be a great game regardless what we want and as i said before, the more races will be the few options each one has.

[In Exile]

I've played as a human and as a qunari in DAI. It's not significantly different. The background occupation (noble for human, mercenary for qunari) had more reactivity than the chosen race.

And yeah Skyrim lets you play as a cat person, a lizard person, an orc, etc. But it's not exactly a deep game. Racial bonuses aside, you're no different than a human.

While I'm not saying the Qunari had a lot of dedicated content, my experience doesn't line up with yours at all. There's very little content dedicated to being a mercenary compared to being a Qunari (though neither gets a lot of content).

[MaxCrushmore]

Well I'm at work so I don't get to read this thread for it's bitter arguments (how do I know this has happened? This thread has gone longer than 2 pages, and on the ME:A forum, that equates to drama)

 

I would love to play this game as a Geth .. I could romance my ship then ... and have hunter mode / geth scanner for gameplay

[Fizzie Panda]

The shallowness refers to the lack of difference when playing a race/species other than human. even if they were to just suddenly be like "what the hell lets throw in Asari and Turian as playable characters" they most likely would not be able to implement a significant amount of unique story options for that character outside of a few pointless conversation options. gameplay would most likely not be affected in any significant way (other than the restrictions on what classes the aliens can play).

Exactly.

[themikefest]

I doubt the PC will fly around like the rocketeer. More than likely it'll just be something used for quick bursts, sort of like one of the turians in MP. 

It most likely will be used like what the Cerberus soldiers did. Getting to higher positions or to lower positions

[N7Jamaican]

What's wrong with being a human?  Those damn humans *shakes fist*

[Iakus]

Hana... why do you have to argue about everything?

 

http://blog.bioware....fect-andromeda/

 

Quote: "You will play a human, male or female, though that’s actually not the character you saw in the trailer (more on that later)."

 

Does this sentence allow the possibility of playing a non-human? No, it does not. 'You will play a human' is definite and not open to interpretation.

Just pointing out, DAI originally had the Inquisitor be human only, but the year delay let them ad other races.  It's entirely possible, though not very likely, something similar could happen to MEA

[Iakus]

 

I would love to play this game as a Geth .. I could romance my ship then ... and have hunter mode / geth scanner for gameplay

Joker has proven you can be human and still do that