256 réponses à ce sujet

[Spectr61]

Damm, but do I disagree with the Holy-Rollers. At best, they want to divert precious resources for a softer version. At worst, censorship.

How selfish does one have to be to try to censor an "M" rated game.

Just so that it might better suit your delicate sensibilities.

It is a ridiculous, self-centered, and narcissistic request.

[KaiserShep]

Wow. Almost exactly the same discussions and arguments like in the first thread. I could just copy/paste a dozen posts here and they'd fit right in.

 

Or as a Mass Effect planet codex would call it, a "heavenly twin". 

[Elhanan]

Damm, but do I disagree with the Holy-Rollers. At best, they want to divert precious resources for a softer version. At worst, censorship.

How selfish does one have to be to try to censor an "M" rated game.

Just so that it might better suit your delicate sensibilities.

It is a ridiculous, self-centered, and narcissistic request.

As the other thread suggest a Toggle for indv personal censoring, it would not interfere with another's desire to see the objectionable material.

[Former_Fiend]

I would like to say that my argument has nothing to do with the fear that a toggle feature would impact my personal enjoyment of the game beyond the resources dedicated to implementing it detracting from the over all quality.

 

My main argument is, looking at this from a writers perspective, I understand why Bioware might just not want to do this. I know me, personally, were I making a game that contained explicit content that I felt was necessary or appropriate for the story and some members of the audience asked for a feature like this, I wouldn't include it. I would prefer that people not play the game at all rather than play it and get a neutered, watered down, gutted version of what I wrote. The purpose of writing is to evoke emotions, and in my view, including a feature that lets the players avoid that is contrary to the entire purpose.

 

Now, that's just my own mindset. It could well be that the good people at Bioware don't share that perspective and don't care that much. I don't know. 

[Elhanan]

I would like to say that my argument has nothing to do with the fear that a toggle feature would impact my personal enjoyment of the game beyond the resources dedicated to implementing it detracting from the over all quality.
 
My main argument is, looking at this from a writers perspective, I understand why Bioware might just not want to do this. I know me, personally, were I making a game that contained explicit content that I felt was necessary or appropriate for the story and some members of the audience asked for a feature like this, I wouldn't include it. I would prefer that people not play the game at all rather than play it and get a neutered, watered down, gutted version of what I wrote. The purpose of writing is to evoke emotions, and in my view, including a feature that lets the players avoid that is contrary to the entire purpose.
 
Now, that's just my own mindset. It could well be that the good people at Bioware don't share that perspective and don't care that much. I don't know.

In a game, it likely happens quite often. Varied paths, races, genders, personalities, classes, Perks, etc all effect the story. And every Player will be different, and approach the story in a varied way. The language Toggle simply allows that do not wish obscenity to avoid it; all others hear the original lines. Both get what they want, and the writer reaches more of an audience.

[Spectr61]

As the other thread suggest a Toggle for indv personal censoring, it would not interfere with another's desire to see the objectionable material.

And just who is going to program, test, and the implement this?

Some DEV who would otherwise be doing something like content? Or stability? Or cross platform optimization?

I'll say it again - to want to divert resources designing a censorship program for "M" rated game is selfish, self-centered and narcissistic.

All the effort should go into making a magnificent, "M" rated game, absent censorship.

[Mcfly616]

Play another game if you don't like it. I want to spill alien guts and bang alien babes. 

[Elhanan]

And just who is going to program, test, and the implement this?

Some DEV who would otherwise be doing something like content? Or stability? Or cross platform optimization?

I'll say it again - to want to divert resources designing a censorship program for "M" rated game is selfish, self-centered and narcissistic.

All the effort should go into making a magnificent, "M" rated game, absent censorship.

Some other games differ in this opinion. Here is an article of one of them:

http://kotaku.com/58...f-mature-gaming

Here is a recent post mentioning others:

In addition to the GOW franchise; Assassins Creed, Metal Gear Solid, Call of Duty: Black Ops, God of War 2 and Starcraft 2 all include language toggles/filters.

I think it is a reasonable conclusion that the managers within Ubisoft, Konami, Sony, Activision, Blizzard and Microsoft are far more aware of the potential market value of filter mechanisms than any member of the general gaming public.

[Mcfly616]

Society is soft nowadays.

[Battlebloodmage]

Some other games differ in this opinion. Here is an article of one of them:

http://kotaku.com/58...f-mature-gaming

Here is a recent post mentioning others:
 

Yup, repeating the stuffs without address stuffs people told you about on that and how it's not the same. You just love posting the same stuffs over and over again. I'm not sure if you're trolling at this point or just refuse to listen to others. 

[Gileadan]

Not sure about the others, but StarCraft 2 only filters profanity in multiplayer chat - a simple automated filter for typed text not unlike on this forum.
There is no toggle for what the characters say during the single player campaign... which is what the proponents of censorship seem to want.

[Elhanan]

It may not be the same for a new RPG, but it could be a start; one I hope makes it into Bioware titles.

[Former_Fiend]

In a game, it likely happens quite often. Varied paths, races, genders, personalities, classes, Perks, etc all effect the story. And every Player will be different, and approach the story in a varied way. The language Toggle simply allows that do not wish obscenity to avoid it; all others hear the original lines. Both get what they want, and the writer reaches more of an audience.

 

I don't see the proposed toggle as being remotely the same thing as race/gender/class/personality selection.

 

And I maintain that the idea of the toggle actually opening up a wider audience is a fallacy. The Ratings logo is still going to say M and it's still going to list everything that gave it an M. What it isn't going to do is say "but there's a way to turn all that off." 

 

A feature like this toggle isn't going to see heavy advertisement, either. I cannot imagine a trailer for the game listing one of it's features as "Now, with the ability to turn off all the nudity and harsh language!" So beyond some slow spreading word of mouth most people who wouldn't have bought the game on the grounds on content wouldn't be aware of the option to turn it off and still wouldn't buy it.

 

And most people who don't buy games on the grounds of content tend to be parents buying for children, and the proposed toggle does nothing for them because toggles can be turned back off. So really this option opens Bioware up to more criticism when they have a bunch of kids convincing their parents "No, it's ok; I know it says it has nudity on the label, but they have a toggle that lets you turn all that bad stuff off, just like the safe search on the internet!" Then the kids just switch off the toggle whenever their parents leave the room. 

[Elhanan]

I don't see the proposed toggle as being remotely the same thing as race/gender/class/personality selection.
 
And I maintain that the idea of the toggle actually opening up a wider audience is a fallacy. The Ratings logo is still going to say M and it's still going to list everything that gave it an M. What it isn't going to do is say "but there's a way to turn all that off." 
 
A feature like this toggle isn't going to see heavy advertisement, either. I cannot imagine a trailer for the game listing one of it's features as "Now, with the ability to turn off all the nudity and harsh language!" So beyond some slow spreading word of mouth most people who wouldn't have bought the game on the grounds on content wouldn't be aware of the option to turn it off and still wouldn't buy it.
 
And most people who don't buy games on the grounds of content tend to be parents buying for children, and the proposed toggle does nothing for them because toggles can be turned back off. So really this option opens Bioware up to more criticism when they have a bunch of kids convincing their parents "No, it's ok; I know it says it has nudity on the label, but they have a toggle that lets you turn all that bad stuff off, just like the safe search on the internet!" Then the kids just switch off the toggle whenever their parents leave the room.

And yet, several other games and companies believe it did just that. And that article was written in 2011, so the Player base could now be even wider.

[Former_Fiend]

Bioware not taking a single page from the Gears of War playbook is perfectly fine in my opinion.

[Elhanan]

Bioware not taking a single page from the Gears of War playbook is perfectly fine in my opinion.

As others have indicated, since they are different types of games, that is expected. But if one were to simply place it aside without examining the possible benefits, that would seem rather short sighted; not like most top gaming companies.

[Spectr61]

Some other games differ in this opinion. Here is an article of one of them:http://kotaku.com/58...f-mature-gamingHere is a recent post mentioning others:

Elhanan,

The point remains.

Who is going to do this extra programming?

Won't this divert and distract talent from other duties?

Just because some other games have gone down the censorship road, it does not mean MEA should.

The ME series is one of the most, if not the most popular combat/action/RPG games to date. And they are uncensored.

So the justification is that MEA should offer censorship because other, less popular games did?

Possibly this could.one of the reasons those games don't have the level of fanatical fans that ME does.

Requesting the diversion of any effort, no matter how small, away from the games development along "M" lines, like those in the series, is selfish, self-centered and narcissistic. Not to mention illogical.

So answer the question, who is going to do the programming, and won't that divert resources?

[Elhanan]

Elhanan,

The point remains.

Who is going to do this extra programming?

Won't this divert and distract talent from other duties?

Just because some other games have gone down the censorship road, it does not mean MEA should.

The ME series is one of the most, if not the most popular combat/action/RPG games to date. And they are uncensored.

So the justification is that MEA should offer censorship because other, less popular games did?

Possibly this could.one of the reasons those games don't have the level of fanatical fans that ME does.

Requesting the diversion of any effort, no matter how small, away from the games development along "M" lines, like those in the series, is selfish, self-centered and narcissistic. Not to mention illogical.

So answer the question, who is going to do the programming, and won't that divert resources?

Am fairly confident that such a feature will not replace anything that also makes it into the launched content. Cut-material is no longer relevant, except for folks that wish to complain about it once being considered and dropped after watching pre-Alpha videos from fans.

[Chealec]

And yet, several other games and companies believe it did just that. And that article was written in 2011, so the Player base could now be even wider.

 

I've managed to find a grand total of two franchises with a profanity filter for the in-game content ... and both companies that did so stated that implementing it was an absolute ballache and in neither case did it affect the rating or the suitability for children to play those games. So the potential enormous additional player-base here is those adults, who buy adult games, but don't who don't want a bit of effing and blinding or bare arse.

 

I'm beginning to think there's a little group of people who bring this idea up on the forums of every "mature" rated game going (except perhaps Saint's Row or GTA where they'd be laughed off the Internet) - little grey, humourless men who get some kind of erotic thrill from the idea of murdering and torturing people, who touch themselves whilst watching the The Killing Fields - people who don't want their glorious pure murder-porn bespoiled by normal people having sex or swearing as that destroys the power-fantasy, reminds them that people in the real world don't conform to their passive murderdoll ideals as victims, that normal people have sex and tell them to "f*** off, weirdo" regularly.

 

Do we want these people to be comfortable with their fantasies? Do we want pure, sanitised murder-porn? This is a sickness - these people need help. We must never allow content filters that make these people comfortable with their twisted fantasies! We must fight this with our every last, foul-mouthed breath with every fibre in our natural booty-loving bodies! This is a sickness and it must be CURED!

 

 

 

Now that I've got that silliness out of the way...

 

Everything that's likely to be said here will have already been said in the other thread - can we let this one die now?

[Elhanan]

No, but thanks for the invitation. As a single Player is not the equivalent of a research team, will let Bioware decide for themselves.

[Former_Fiend]

I'm just going to say this; if Bioware includes a toggle like the one proposed, then I will not buy the game out of protest. I don't care whether it affects my experience of the game or not; I will not give my money to a company that indulges in this insanity.

[Elhanan]

I'm just going to say this; if Bioware includes a toggle like the one proposed, then I will not buy the game out of protest. I don't care whether it affects my experience of the game or not; I will not give my money to a company that indulges in this insanity.

About what I expect from many of the Mature crowd. However, they would gain my support, as well as some others, so there is that....

[Battlebloodmage]

I'm just going to say this; if Bioware includes a toggle like the one proposed, then I will not buy the game out of protest. I don't care whether it affects my experience of the game or not; I will not give my money to a company that indulges in this insanity.

You know, the best way to protest this is to ignore him. The developers already said their piece anyway. At this point, it's just him speaking to himself. Let the thread dies, and it would be the end of it. He already ignored the points others make anyway and just repeating himself. 

[Elhanan]

You know, the best way to protest this is to ignore him. The developers already said their piece anyway. At this point, it's just him speaking to himself. Let the thread dies, and it would be the end of it. He already ignored the points others make anyway and just repeating himself.

A developer; not plural, and others seem interested in exploring the topic on the other thread, at least.

[FKA_Servo]

It's sort of amusing that this...

 

No, but thanks for the invitation. As a single Player is not the equivalent of a research team, will let Bioware decide for themselves.

 

...probably ends up being so accurate. There's not much point in mobilizing a research team when the likely demographic is an audience of one (or maybe three) people.