18 réponses à ce sujet

[Sexxibrunette]

in DAO/DA2/DAI have your characters believed in the Maker and if so why? 

Before the reveal of the actual origin of the anchor did you believe it was a sign of Andraste?

 

I find myself in the middle since DAO when in comes to the Chantry - the maker  and the Andraste cult.

I've played both sides, full blown blood magic freedom for all mages and full blown maker believer templar ..

 

In reality I just don't know.

 

I know theres a lot of love for the elves since DAI and DA2 was all about the mages but never really heard about players supporting the idea of the maker :/

 

 

[Flaine1996]

In DAO I had a human warrior who believed in the Maker and Andraste... Believed that the taint was a sign of the maker to do what is good... yadda yadda yadda XD In DA2 my Hawke hated the Chantry as for the Maker and Andraste she didn't give a damn about them I mean what god would watch as people abuse their powers and vice versa. As for Inquisition I had a mage who believed in the Maker but did whatever she wanted she wasnt as religious as my human warrior nor was she god hating as my hawke, she just knew there was someone looking out for her and didnt mind all the religious nonsense till it blew up. Though she kept yelling at people that she isnt the Herald of Andraste yet she loves the perks of it. My belief is more inclined to my inquisitor I believe there is a Maker but not much of the religious sorts.  

[arelenriel]

None of my characters have believed in the Maker or Andraste- my DAO Warden was a Mahariel who worshiped the Pantheon.. Hawke believed in the Maker and Andraste but hated what the Chantry had done with their teachings a, my Inquisitor is a Dalish Lavellan  and worships the Pantheon as well. All three have disapproved of the Chantry's stance on mages, and forcing Templars to take lyrium. I  think there is a world of difference between what Andraste taught her followers about the Maker and the modern Chantry - just as there is a world of difference between what Jesus taught his followers (love, tolerance, respect for others) and what some sects of modern Christianity teach. Faith in a deity does not necessarily correlate with support of the actions of the religious institutions their followers founded.

[Charoleia]

In DA:O, most of my character had a rather casual approach of the Maker. Even my Loyalist Circle/Chantry adherent mage was not that much pious. Maybe because until Sacred Ashes, it seemed a bit distant... and even then... I just replayed it today, and it still feels like "finding the old artifact mentioned in this legend" kind of quest. I didn't really ever felt any religious vibe in DA:O.

 

in DA2, it began to change. None of my Hawkes were devout (one did began quoting the Chant, but it was mostly to get in Sebastian pants ) but the Maker and Andraste really felt like a religion, present in the everyday life of the nobles and commoners, than it did in DA:O.

 

In DA:I however...

My dwarf thinks it just nonsense. Not that she believes in the Stone or the Ancestors either (she actually despises her dwarven heritage), but she just believes what she sees. At best, Andraste was just another human mage. Who died long ago. She could not care less about that. On the Inquisition, she thinks it's just a tool to bring back order, so normal people like her can go back to having a normal life without demons inviting themselves over breakfast every now and then.

 

My human rogue believes in the Maker but certainly does not see himself as Andraste Chosen. He's a bit like Alistair : he certainly is andrastian buuuuut more out of tradition than anything else. And it still gives what *seems* be a good moral guideline (emphasis on "seem"). The discovery of the nature of the Anchor didn't really affected that, because he never thought it to be divine in the first place. He stays with the Inquisition because it does seem like the right thing to do.

 

My human mage doubts. She was too what I would calll a "casual andrastian" before the events of the Conclave. Then, between Cassandra, and Vivienne, and the all worship thing... she certainly asked herself if may be, it could have been Andraste that saved her... and Haven happened, and she lost faith. But someone still has to represent the good force mages can be - and without religious restrains.

 

My human warrior is a fervent believer. She is Andraste Herald and the Light of the Maker shall guide her in the darkness ! She never doubts (or maybe when she heard the singing after Haven... sounded suspiciously like evil at work ><) and even when she learns about the Anchor, her faith is not shaken : the Maker protected her, and even if her Mark was an accident... who can say that was not the Maker intention all along ? She sees the Hand of the Maker guiding her and her every action. She has compassion for the mages - the Maker gave them magic for a purpose, after all - and become a templar for this reason. She will be the shield that protects the mages, and will fight the demons that prey on them.

And yes, she is very much a female Sebastian... I guess Varic finds her really boring ^^

 

And I had much fun playing all of them. Maybe a slight preference over the faithful Inquisitor, since it really felt like a lot of the convos were designed to feel more natural when fully embracing the Herald thing.... on the other hand, I tried twice playing as an Elf. Even though it worked with my Dwarf, I really can shake the feeling that every conversation and every decision in the game feels off when playing as a Dalish that 1-does not believe in the Maker 2-don't care for shemlen politics.

[Jazpar]

I often do things like I would do myself and I do not belive in the maker.

[EmissaryofLies]

Only my Templar Hawke in DA II believed in the Maker, but that was an "evil" playthrough of the game.

[Mikoto8472]

Hmm...

 

My City Elf didn't believe in the Maker and didn't follow Andrastism herself. She thought that it was pretty much a human thing and thus ignored it when she could. Thus getting married via the Chantry with a Priest presiding over the wedding was more a legal thing than a matter of belief and/or faith. Nothing that happened afterward in joining the Grey Wardens, collecting her army or feeding Loghain to the Archdemon changed that. Indeed if Duncan hadn't interfered once she'd killed Vaughn she'd have been out that gate and fleeing to find the Dalish post-haste.

 

I suppose you could call my apostate Hawke a casual Andrastian. Its part of the culture she grew up with and thus she's learnt many Andrastian phrases she speaks without much thought. But if pushed about exactly what she believes she would say she isn't sure if the Maker really exists, nor is she so sure that Andraste herself wasn't simply a powerful mage rather than the Maker's chosen. And really, Hawke has bigger concerns on her hands depending on what time of DA2/DAI it is.

 

And finally my Trevelyan warrior Inquisitor. Quite similar to Hawke in many ways-she simply doesn't know for sure. "The Herald of Andraste" is a difficult title for her because she's really not sure if she is or not. However she usually encourages use of the title and when people ask her for guidance or reassurance she'll claim she is and that she believes in the Maker. (As she did when Cassandra asked back in Haven.) I guess in some ways Trevelyan is lying but if believing the Maker exists and she's his Wife's chosen Herald means that someone isn't overcome by fear and despair then she'll tell them what they need to hear until her tongue falls out.

[Dai Grepher]

Depends on which character. My male human noble believes in the Maker and Andraste. He was raised as such. What he saw at the Temple of Sacred Ashes and how the ashes brought Eamon out of it, gave him more reason to believe it was all true. He also believed that the Chantry's account of the past was true. Everything about the Golden City, and the Fade, and the Veil, all accurate. Also, Andraste was a historical figure. There is evidence for her existence. There were also observed accounts of her leading armies to take down Tevinter, which she did for the most part, thanks to great cataclysmic events that only devastated Tevinter forces, thus indicating the Maker's favor.

 

My male human mage did not believe in the Maker. But he didn't rule out the possibility either. He just saw no use or reason to believe in an absent god. But he also didn't blame the Maker for being absent, because the world destroyed his most precious possession. The world deserved worse. My mage thinks people are far beyond redemption, and discovering the mysteries of existence is the only true spiritual pursuit that is of any value.

 

My female rogue archer Hawke believes in the Maker, Andraste, and the Chant, though she doesn't always agree with the Chantry on everything. She didn't side with whoever it was to frame the Qunari. She's morally upright, but she's not a complete prude like Sebastian. So she encourages him to be a little less pious and a lot more intimate. She was horrified by Anders' atrocity of murdering all those people in the Chantry.

 

My male Trevelyan mage believes in the Maker, Andraste, and the Chant. He is devoted to the Chantry, though he recognizes that there are some in the Chantry who fail its principles. He is also a man of truth and logic. He requires proof of things. He believes there is evidence that proves the existence of the Maker, and he observes the historical evidence for Andraste, much like my Hero of Ferelden does. However, being a man of science and fact, he always told the truth. His personal creed is "The truth in all things". So he did not claim that he was saved by Andraste, but he did not rule it out either. He said he did not know who or what saved him, but his personal theory was that it was either a Fade spirit, or Divine Justinia. It could have been Andraste, but he couldn't know that for sure. Then after Here Lies the Abyss, he made sure to tell the world the truth of what happened and how he was saved that day. Full disclosure. However, he also had faith that the Maker intended for him to fulfill this role. "In their blood the Maker's will is written." And he also believed he was doing the Maker's work by repairing the Veil. After all, it was the Maker who created the Veil to separate the Fade from the real. He also loudly rebuked Corypheus' proclamations of godhood by shouting "I am the Maker's chosen". I would have preferred he quote the Chant, "...there is but one God, and He is our Maker." But, that's fine. The other line sufficed.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

My characters tend to believe in the Maker unless they are from a culture that has a different belief system.

[Sexxibrunette]

It would have been cool to experience the "good" side instead of always being sucked in by the bad & evil (Darkspawn, ghosts, demons) 

 

At first in DAI I thought the anchor could truly be related to Andraste .. and then ehhh turned out to be something completely different.

 

DAO I was a warrior who at first believe in the maker

DA2 I went full blood mage and of course sided with the mages

DAI  I wanted to be a warrior who believed in the maker but after the fade quest - not so much.

[TheDragonOfWhy]

Never played a believer or even a pro-chant character. Thought that said, never played a blood Mage either.
So all 3 of my canon heroes, 2humans 1Qun, all mages, have never believed in a higher power.
They've been the higher power.

[Ninna]

Origins:

My mage believed in the Maker and got along with Leliana, although he could not stand Wynne. He really liked the idea of Andraste being a mage, though. He read about it during Awakening and went like HELL YEAH!

DA2:

My first Hawke didn't care about religion. Anders seems to believe in the Maker and Andraste (though not the institution of the Chantry) and she thought that level of faith was OK, but when she met Sebastian she was like ewww, this is too much.

Second Hawke was kind of a believer, but he ended up hating the Chantry.

Inquisition:

My Trevelyan Inquisitor will say whatever to appease the masses, but he's never been sure what to believe. But after the things he learned, he believes what the Avvar believe: what we call gods are powerful spirits. He probably turned into an Avvar-supporter after a talk with The Augur, because the things The Augur said fit his beliefs perfectly. He also thinks Andraste was probably a mage who was maybe possessed by a powerful spirit.

 

My Lavellan Inquisitor felt she was being was guided by Mythal's will. She isn't sure about who or what the gods are, but she is open minded. She believes Andraste was guided by a force similar to the one in Flemeth.

[Cz-99]

DAO: Nope, he was a real dwarf and thus was all 'bout the ancestors.

DA2: Nope, especially because of that dumb hag and her Templar lapdog. Hell, after she got arrow'd I started believing in the Qun.

DAI: Nope. What made it even worse was the fact that despite the fact that he told everyone he wasn't special/saved by le Maker/Andraste, one side still believed he was and the other kept calling him a heretic and fraud. That, plus the idiots in the chantry give rise to a facepalm-worthy reaction to that particular faith. Really wish we could've whipped out some blood magic or started sacrificing some bums so people would stop getting the wrong idea about mein character.

[Celtic Latino]

Depends:

 

Origins: 

Fran Cousland- absolutely, though I'd classify her as a liberal Andrastian (sort of like Leliana, where she wants more inclusivity) 

Tristan Amell- neutral/no real opinion, if anyone's a god it's his ego 

Keldan Brosca- yes, actually an Andrastian convert (he sees human culture as a major step up from the caste system of his own people) 

Ulgar Aeducan- no, he believes in the Stone/Paragons

Zell Tabris- yes though marginally. He's not really the religious sort so much as he believes there is SOMETHING

Tinuwen Mahariel- no, all about the Dalish pantheon

Arwen Surana- neutral/no real opinion. She believes there's SOMETHING but doesn't believe the Chantry tells the whole story

 

DA2:

All my Hawkes believed in the Maker, they just had different views on the whole templar vs mage conflict. 

 

DAI:

Arthyen Trevelyan- yes, conservative (as in, pro-Templar) devout Andrastian

Caswyn Trevelyan- yes, also an Andrastian but one with more open ended views (pro-Mage, believes Andraste was a mage) 

Gareth Lavellan- no, he believes in the Dalish gods, though he's more of a cultural believer as opposed to a religious one

Levana Lavellan- yes, she's an Andrastian convert (even became a Templar) 

Nika Cadash- no, actually an atheist (my first real atheistic DA character as she not only doesn't believe in the Maker but is actually anti-Maker/anti-god(s))

Gilda Cadash- yes, surface dwarf and an Andrastian 

Jade Adaar- no, she's mostly agnostic (doesn't confirm or deny there's a deity, or deities for that matter, and doesn't really care if there is) 

[Nixou]

All of them were Andrastian, with each individual having his/her own flavor:

 

Origins: my Warden was very lapsed believer: she never really questioned the core tenets of the Chantry, but being a self-serving social climber with a fondness for melting the faces of people who annoyed her she wasn't very enthusiastic about the whole "Be Nice and Charitable to Thy Neighbor". Still her lukewarm faith was still strong enough to make her expect a modicum of rectitude from women and men of the Cloth, so when Templars deciding to openly challenge the Chantry-sanctioned Right of Conscription she went ballistic and turned them into bloody smears on the wall. Suffice to say, the Chantry-blowing nutcase didn't fall far from the conker tree

 

Kirkwall: Given that Hawke grew up in Lothering and that all the clerics and Templars met during Origins were decent people, I chose to make him a rather devout man willing to give clerics the benefit of the doubt. Still, being the son and brother of apostate mages, an apostate himself and eventually the mate of an elvish blood mage who loved to share her people's mythology, he was neither a zealot nor the most obedient believer.

 

Inquisition: Having selected a human aristocrat as the Herald and since both his predecessors were recusant Andrastians, I went with a classical noblesse-oblige I-believe-the-Maker-exists-but-couldn't-presume-to-know-His-Intent goody-two-shoes.

[nightscrawl]

in DAO/DA2/DAI have your characters believed in the Maker and if so why? 

I'll just talk about DAI since that is the character I've developed the most, particularly in regard to his faith.

My canon character is a Trevelyan warrior, Andrastianism is just the faith he was raised into, so that's really all there is for the "why" of it. That said, like Dorian he has little use for the Chantry as an institution and is rather jaded by it because of the politics he was witness to and occasionally forced to participate in, but that hasn't altered his core faith as an Andrastian or his belief in the Maker.
 

Before the reveal of the actual origin of the anchor did you believe it was a sign of Andraste?

No, he never did. He believes that the Maker has abandoned His children, that the comparisons of him to Andraste are borderline blasphemy, and that he was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time (or the right time, depending on your perspective).

But ultimately it's very difficult to be constantly told you are one thing -- Dorian uses the phrase "bulwark against evil," which is pretty heavy -- and not begin to at least wonder if it's true. The events at Adamant and in the Fade have a profound affect on him, leave him questioning his faith and how he fits into the grand scheme of things.

If the Maker has abandoned us, how can I possibly be any sort of 'chosen one'?
If this is the 'will of the Maker,' why would He pick now to intervene and not some other tumultuous time in history when all of Thedas was in danger?
If the Maker created the world and everything in it, doesn't that also mean that He is ultimately responsible for Corypheus?
If I succeed or fail will that be His will, or the result of my own efforts?
Why was I -- an ordinary noble -- chosen and not someone else who may have been more deserving, or who had already shown through their struggles, as Andraste, that they had the will to carry out the role?

And so on. After Adamant you can have an involved discussion with Mother Giselle about it, in addition to the partial discussion you can have with the Justinia-spirit in the Fade, but none of these give him any sort of answer because faith isn't about logic and he just has to work through it himself.

 

I find myself in the middle since DAO when in comes to the Chantry - the maker  and the Andraste cult.
I've played both sides, full blown blood magic freedom for all mages and full blown maker believer templar ..
 
In reality I just don't know.
 
I know theres a lot of love for the elves since DAI and DA2 was all about the mages but never really heard about players supporting the idea of the maker :/

I think you are looking at this too rigidly. It doesn't matter whether you believe in the Maker, or in the real-world God, but only whether your character does, and the reason for that belief can have any sort of roleplay that you want. Also, I urge you to not rely too heavily on what you see on the forums. Yes, there is a heavy leaving toward elven lore and religion here on the forums, but the players who come here are the minority, just like those who have multiple playthorughs and try out all the options are a minority.

 

As long as you find Andrastianism or belief in the Maker a compelling aspect of roleplay that's all that really matters.

[Adiatorix I Megas]

My Inquisitors are Dragon Cultists. It's a shame that we don't have that option, really, but an interest in Blood Magic can be expressed. 

[Gervaise]

My elves generally don't believe in the Maker, certainly if they are Dalish.     When they were told that there was a figure helping them in the Fade, they tended to think it was some benign spirit, so they were right about that.   

 

One of my elves dedicated himself to Mythal and because formerly the Dalish had revered mages as being closer to what they once were (now rubbished by what they do to surplus mages) and he was not a mage, he had prayed to Mythal that he might become magically gifted.   So he saw the archor as a gift from Mythal.   Was even more convinced when Solas told him it was elvish.   Disappointed when he discovered it wasn't; even more so when he actually met Mythal.     After the Temple of Mythal, all my elves aren't sure what to believe any more.    However, after Jaws of Hakkon, they believe in the Maker and the Chantry even less.

 

One of my elves claimed to believe in the Maker just to string people along as he thought it seemed to be what they wanted to hear.   He was a bit agnostic about the elven gods too.    His view was if the Maker didn't like what he was doing, he ought to do something about it.   Since no thunderbolts struck him when he claimed to speak in Andraste's name, he carried on doing so.    It was a bit of fun being able to throw that one in Cory's face though.

 

My City elf warden believed in the Maker but had mixed feelings about the Chantry, particularly after that sister didn't object strongly enough when Vaughan interrupted the wedding.   My human Warden did believe in the Maker.     My Hawkes believed in the Maker and Andraste but not the Chantry.   

 

Ever since I discovered the Chantry altered the Chant with respect to Shartan, I've been pretty sceptical about their role in advancing the teaching of Andraste.   The more I find out in game or from books, the less I believe in anything the Chantry teach, particularly in view of the reaction to my characters wanting to tell people the truth about who was in the Fade with them.     So my future PCs will be equally sceptical about the faith of the Chantry.