106 réponses à ce sujet

[LinksOcarina]

   This statement alone just shows we're not going to agree on anything.  

 

 

 

I've showcased plenty of examples. The UNC missions in ME1 have actual back stories and characters unlike any of the crap we find in ME2. Barren firing ranges with a few mooks to shoot.

 

Well that's fine, we don't have to agree. You are wrong anyway on this one though.

 

Not to mention you don't explain why here. The monastery is part of the main story how exactly? You didn't really explain that one, and if you did, then the explanation is inadequate to me.

 

And what is this about back-stories? thats a new wrinkle in your argument, not to mention several of those side-missions in 2 and 3 had similar back narratives self-contained in their mission. Like the monastery, for example. The small crate mission Aria sends you on is another example, the dereict ship you explore...the beacons in the fog...Grissom Academy...they dont have back-stories to them?

[Hiemoth]

Well that's fine, we don't have to agree. You are wrong anyway on this one though.

 

Not to mention you don't explain why here. The monastery is part of the main story how exactly? You didn't really explain that one, and if you did, then the explanation is inadequate to me.

 

And what is this about back-stories? thats a new wrinkle in your argument, not to mention several of those side-missions in 2 and 3 had similar back narratives self-contained in their mission. Like the monastery, for example. The small crate mission Aria sends you on is another example, the dereict ship you explore...the beacons in the fog...Grissom Academy...they dont have back-stories to them?

 

If I had to guess, the argument is that because a lot of the larger side missions introduce past characters or new monsters from the main plot, or something like that, they are too tied to the main plot and thus need to be considered part of the main plot instead of considered side quests. Which is a ridiculously arbitrary statement for me while also indicating how Bioware can't win. However, it also ignores the fact that all the N7 missions also have narrative and characters, with several of them even having spoken segments, while also being as more much more unique than we got in ME1.

 

Again, the mental acrobatics required by this argument are astonishing.

[WittyUsername]

Hey I just want inventory, more skills (particularly for weapons), and armor tiers to come back. I quite like dressing all my squaddies in Colossus armor in ME1.

[LinksOcarina]

If I had to guess, the argument is that because a lot of the larger side missions introduce past characters or new monsters from the main plot, or something like that, they are too tied to the main plot and thus need to be considered part of the main plot instead of considered side quests. Which is a ridiculously arbitrary statement for me while also indicating how Bioware can't win. However, it also ignores the fact that all the N7 missions also have narrative and characters, with several of them even having spoken segments, while also being as more much more unique than we got in ME1.

 

Again, the mental acrobatics required by this argument are astonishing.

 

I disagree on the uniqueness though.

 

The areas were unique sure in Mass Effect 2, but the mission types in Mass Effect 1 did have some variety, from combat to ambushes to a few that involved some non-combative segments and investigation, as rudimentry as it was.

 

It's comparable id say. 

[Broganisity]

I sit firmly in the middle.

I want a world with characters and events that matter. A world where choices have consequences, something that often left me wanting as far as Mass Effect was concerned: Being good/Paragon had very little benefits, whereas Renegade often ended with you shooting yourself in the foot. I want characters with dreams and goals of their own and who will act on them rather than being complacent 'yes men'. "Oh, you don't like me releasing the Rachni, Wrex? Do something about it! At least you try that type of maneuver on Virmire but still!" I want them to fight for their beliefs and to pursue them just as the player does their own goals. I want characters who will fundamentally disagree with the player and leave rather than just chastise you for doing something they hate. You can't please everyone, and this should too be true for Mass Effect.

And I want the gameplay to match that mentality of 'choices matter'. I want to move and fight properly as a vanguard: a biotic typhoon ravaging enemy lines with the support of adepts and soldiers of all kinds. To jump, dodge, slide, roll, melee, shoot in a way that is as fulfilling as the story. But I also want to talk my way out of fights if I can or hell- sneak through without doing any fighting at all! How can you be an infiltrator if you can't infiltrate, intentionally or otherwise? At best you're just another Shooty-Shooty-Bang-Bang guy with a temporary damage bonus power- oh and uh- invisibility too I guess? I want my weapons to matter. I want my armor to matter. I want my squad-mates to matter. I want my tactics to matter. I shouldn't be able to just nova-cancel to victory and punch everything in the face or face-equivalent or hell just punch it anyways. I can't say I want a constant inventory or something like that as I don't like the concept of stripping down in the middle of a hazardous planet, rather I want to make my decisions ahead of time and hope for the best. I shouldn't be able to toss my scimitar down and pull a typhoon out of the ether while stripping down to a light armored suit while on a planet without a breathable atmosphere. . .or maybe I should be allowed but be punished by death?

. . .The point is: we can have our cake and not just eat it, but have a side of ice cream: Make it a la mode. Wash it down with a nice glass of milk while we're at it. . .of course the squirts'll be horrible afterwards but man what a ride!

[StealthGamer92]

In all three games, I played as an adept. Rarely used a gun, with the exception of heavy weapons. I didn't feel ME thus far was a shooter. It was always an RPG to me.

Try RP-ing an Infiltrator or proper sniper, that's when the the lack of RP is most noticeable in this G.

[StealthGamer92]

 hell- sneak through without doing any fighting at all! How can you be an infiltrator if you can't infiltrate, intentionally or otherwise? At best you're just another Shooty-Shooty-Bang-Bang guy with a temporary damage bonus power- oh and uh- invisibility too I guess?

I always play an Infiltrator, and I agree with this sentiment.

[Hiemoth]

I always play an Infiltrator, and I agree with this sentiment.

 

But I struggle with how Bioware should solve this? Stealth games require a very different design with a lot of resources put in to things that don't really matter for the other classes. And if the solution is that well let us just walk past them while invisible, what exactly is the challenge provided in those scenes?

[StealthGamer92]

But I struggle with how Bioware should solve this? Stealth games require a very different design with a lot of resources put in to things that don't really matter for the other classes. And if the solution is that well let us just walk past them while invisible, what exactly is the challenge provided in those scenes?

Just make sure there're path's(not obvious but subtle one's that look like they may or may not work and have some as decoy's that don't) and Cloak's there already and allow us to go in solo and add back crouch but not let it cancel when you move....I guess I see your point as this list is just basic rudimentary stealth addition's, but if they're thinking about giving the stealth class stealth option's in game from the start I believe they'd find a way and even if the first version isn't great I believe they'd make it better and better just like they did with the shooting mechanics.

 

EDIT: Also I believe the Adept and Engineer could benefit from stealth too as both should be weak so guerilla warfare(type of stealth) should be a tactic available to them.

[Mdizzletr0n]

I agree with this. In some cases, it might be better not to be seen. Also, you have the element of surprise. Stealth - > surprise -> Crit hit.

[StealthGamer92]

I agree with this. In some cases, it might be better not to be seen. Also, you have the element of surprise. Stealth - > surprise -> Crit hit.

Hell now that I think about it a simple combination of a suppressor mod for weapon's and a detection system for enemie's that doesn't let them detect you unless they see you(better made than Homecoming but that was really close) would work. Also now that I've remembered Homecoming I'm hoping it was a test of wether stealth could work in ME and they refine any lesson's learned from it and do wind up giving us stealth, it seem's kind of promissing when you remember Homecoming was made(though still not guaranteed).

[Mdizzletr0n]

I'd go full omni-blade in stealth mode. Get my rogue fix. Lol.

I think would be a great attribute (stealth) that adds more options to gameplay.

[KaiserShep]

I'd go full omni-blade in stealth mode. Get my rogue fix. Lol.

I think would be a great attribute (stealth) that adds more options to gameplay.

 

I'd probably enjoy sneaking up on enemies and severing their spines with an omni-blade for most of the game.

[Nitrocuban]

Does it have to change at all? Add more rpg element and you basically get Fallout in space, and add more shooter elements to get Halo. Mass Effect has its own little niche, which it should stay in, imo.

I'd actually like a "Fallout in space" if the main story and character interaction meet BW standards.

[timebean]

For me...Mass Effect was a unique RPG game BECAUSE it was mixed with a shooter.  I had never played a shooter before, and it was way more fun than I thought it would be.  Then, I tried a pure shooter, and it was boring as hell. I also tried a classic RPG and the inventory management was uggggg!   Personally, I hope they keep a balanced approach.

 

The RPG elements of DAO (in terms of good choice and consequence without endless fetch quests) and the shooter elements of ME2 (I sure to love the raptor ) would be the perfect mix, IMO.

 

Just thinking a bit more about what I wrote...Bioware games in general are really good at being RPG's that cut out alot of the annoying stuff of classic RPG's and add just enough action elements to be fun to play.  I just like what they do...their own unique blend, as others have said.  That is why they are my favorite games. I hope they stick to it. 

[Sartoz]

I sit firmly in the middle.

 

Big Snip

. . .The point is: we can have our cake and not just eat it, but have a side of ice cream: Make it a la mode. Wash it down with a nice glass of milk while we're at it. . .of course the squirts'll be horrible afterwards but man what a ride!

 

                                                                           <<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>

 

If Bio ever implements a proper "choice matters" story line, then I require some form of feedback that tells me I made a right/wrong choice, somewhere along the game path.  For example:

 

 A supplemtary second mission is given by your superior, saying that a past mission was done late. The settlement was overrun and we must now re-take it.

 

Mr. X, the leader of mining Outpost Gamma was killed in the last mission to hold it against a Keth attack. While we won the day , his death weakened its leadership and a followup attack took control of the Outpost. Your mission, should you decide to take it....

 

AI agent 37 successfully obtained vital intelligence information from Sector14. Unfortunately, sending Agent 37 to Sector 14 was a bad move. It turned out the information was a trap and our navy lost Battlegroup 7.

 

I'm sure you can see the advantage of this type of feedback.

 

Lastly, I wish that at the end of the game, a screen showning primary nodes of the story's branch paths and the ones we took. A useful tool that shows us how much of the story we missed or available for the next playthrough. Perhaps even showing us the percentage of explored territory, missed "super gear" or missed opportunities..... etc.

 

 What do you think?

[StealthGamer92]

                                                                           <<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>

 

If Bio ever implements a proper "choice matters" story line, then I require some form of feedback that tells me I made a right/wrong choice, somewhere along the game path.  For example:

 

 A supplemtary second mission is given by your superior, saying that a past mission was done late. The settlement was overrun and we must now re-take it.

 

Mr. X, the leader of mining Outpost Gamma was killed in the last mission to hold it against a Keth attack. While we won the day , his death weakened its leadership and a followup attack took control of the Outpost. Your mission, should you decide to take it....

 

AI agent 37 successfully obtained vital intelligence information from Sector14. Unfortunately, sending Agent 37 to Sector 14 was a bad move. It turned out the information was a trap and our navy lost Battlegroup 7.

 

I'm sure you can see the advantage of this type of feedback.

 

Lastly, I wish that at the end of the game, a screen showning primary nodes of the story's branch paths and the ones we took. A useful tool that shows us how much of the story we missed or available for the next playthrough. Perhaps even showing us the percentage of explored territory, missed "super gear" or missed opportunities..... etc.

 

 What do you think?

I don't think it should be that detailed but maybe a stat next to the mission in the log that say's "1 of 4 mission ending's discovered" so we'd know when we found them all on subsequent playthrough's, and this stat be 0 of 4 for a newly created/imported character.

[rashie]

I hate how the word RPG has morphed into something seemingly disconnected from combat over the years, at least on this board.

 

The walking dead by telltale is an adventure game and not an rpg, yet it focuses on all the aspects people on this board find important in one while blatantly ignoring having worthwhile combat and character building.

 

Character agency is important to bioware games, but it isn't that alone which makes them into rpg games.

[StealthGamer92]

I hate how the word RPG has morphed into something seemingly disconnected from combat over the years, at least on this board.

 

The walking dead by telltale is an adventure game and not an rpg, yet it focuses on all the aspects people on this board find important in one while blatantly ignoring having worthwhile combat and character building.

 

Character agency is important to bioware games, but it isn't that alone which makes them into rpg games.

Don't lump me with them(though I don't think you were now that I've finished typing so I'll post this anyway)! I said what I feel is the most important thing needed for me to consider a game RPG and it does include the ME1 and Borderlands style  increases to stat's to customize the character's combat performance as well as many other more subtle attribute's. I agree that RPG and a custom character are different thing's and not related except by a thin thread of "you choose the personality/moral's of your PC" and even that is the illusion of choice at work.

[rashie]

Don't lump me with them(though I don't think you were now that I've finished typing so I'll post this anyway)! I said what I feel is the most important thing needed for me to consider a game RPG and it does include the ME1 and Borderlands style  increases to stat's to customize the character's combat performance as well as many other more subtle attribute's. I agree that RPG and a custom character are different thing's and not related except by a thin thread of "you choose the personality/moral's of your PC" and even that is the illusion of choice at work.

I wasn't responding to you in specific but more the OP and the thread at large, I usually quote people when its directed at one person alone.

[StealthGamer92]

I wasn't responding to you in specific but more the OP and the thread at large, I usually quote people when its directed at one person alone.

I admited I realized that but had already filled out the whole postso added in the "I saw what you really meant" at the start as I didn't want to lose that in case I ever want to post it in another thread about this issue I can copy that as my earlier post is a bit of a rambling one.

[Kappa Neko]

If RPG means crappy loot and inventory insanity, then no, I don't want more of that. Both ME1 and especially DAO had a lot of the annoying things I associate with RPGs.

I'm not one of those people who have a hard-on for micromanaging every detail of their gameplay.

 

All I want is an engaging story with fun gameplay. Heavy focus on the story, preferably. I don't care it said game gets labeled RPG, action-RPG, adventure game or even a platformer. Any game can have a great story.

 

I don't even need much character customization necessarily. I just need a protagonist I can relate to emotionally. Or NPCs I care about. A game gets bonus points for letting me edit the gender/face. But it's not required.

 

The only thing I don't want Bioware to do is cut back on the story and focus too much on combat. There are few games that are very story-driven. Even many RPGs are all about the gameplay and not the story. I HATE dungeon-crawlers. Combat is only fun to me as a narrative element. I need to kill bad guys because it's relevant for the story. Ok, can do! Don't just throw endless waves of mooks at me without progressing the story. I don't usually play games for the combat. Or RPGs anyway.

 

That's just my preference, of course.

[StealthGamer92]

If RPG means crappy loot and inventory insanity, then no, I don't want more of that. Both ME1 and especially DAO had a lot of the annoying things I associate with RPGs.

I'm not one of those people who have a hard-on for micromanaging every detail of their gameplay.

 

 

The beauty of RPG's is that the thing you're pointing out as an issue is not a core part of RPG's(to me at least) it's just a severely overused trope.

[SNascimento]

This discussion is so boring because for me that is a simple question to the answer 'which type of game Bioware should do?'. And that is, the: 'the best game they can'. If to make the best game they hvae to put more traditional RPG elements, they should. If not, they should not. 

Mass Effect 2 is widely regarded by both critics and fans as the best game in the trilogy and it's not because it has more or less RPG elements, it's because they fit perfectly with the game (along with many other reasons of course). ME3 also achieve a good balance, ME1 was a utter disaster.