376 réponses à ce sujet

[tscpx]

In almost all Bioware games, the player has the choice to play as either a more paragon or renegade character, paragons being more heroic in terms of their actions and renegades… not so much.

 

However, there does seem to be inconsistencies in the level of 'renegade-ness' the character possesses depending on the game.

 

For example, in Mass Effect 1, renegade Shepard was a douchebag at the very most.

 

In Mass Effect 2, renegade Shepard was a badass (but kinda awesome at the same time).

 

In Mass Effect 3, renegade Shepard was, well…  https://www.youtube....h?v=iXhz4CA7eMk

 

So the question is, how evil should the renegade options be in Mass Effect Andromeda?

 

Should Bioware tone it down or raise it up and why?

 

Should companions react to the questionable actions our protagonist does and/or be influenced by what our character tells them, much like Alister and Leliana from Dragon Age Origins? 

 

and finally, what what you like to be able to do as a renegade in the new Mass Effect game? 

 

EDIT: Instead of evil, perhaps excessive would be better wording  

[Farangbaa]

As long as Renegade doesn't equal 'psychotic mass murderer', I'm fine with it.

[Red Panda]

To be fair, that ME3 example should be a paragon action since you're making sure the Ardatt Yakshi threat is contained as per the orders of the Asari official that authorized your deployment to that monastary in Asari space.

 

Therefore, since paragon is following orders, there is no reason why letting Samara kill herself on her own free will and eliminating the threat could be considered "renegade".

 

I can't say that renegade is particularly evil, nor can I say that particular paragon action is evil.

[Seboist]

What's evil about killing Samara's daughter? It's stupid as hell to allow her to remain on there and end up becoming another Banshee.

 

OTOH I didn't allow Samara to kill herself, but that's because I picked Morinth in ME2. 

[DaemionMoadrin]

The morality has always been the weak point of most BioWare games.

 

Evil usually has no subtlety and Good is stupid.

[Aezint]

It shouldn't be.  Renegade is supposed to be pragmatic and hard, but not outright evil, and paragon is supposed to be idealistic and compassionate, but not the one side representing good.  Both options are supposed to be opposite faces of the same thing; being the hero.

 

If being evil was an option, it should be its own thing.

[StealthGamer92]

Renegade should be a realist, pacticalist or whatever you'd want to call it. He/She should be doing thing's that are not done out of cruelty but the desire for utmost effeciency from shooting a person in the leg/shoulder to get them to drop a weapon to blowing there brain's out like Mal in ep.1 of Firefly so they could escapre danger.

[Indigenous]

So the question is, how evil should the renegade options be in Mass Effect Andromeda?

 

Should Bioware tone it down or raise it up and why?

 

Should companions react to the questionable actions our protagonist does and/or be influenced by what our character tells them, much like Alister and Leliana from Dragon Age Origins? 

 

and finally, what what you like to be able to do as a renegade in the new Mass Effect game? 

 

As has been said 'evil' in ME3, and the world, is subjective. It is why Bioware uses Paragon and Renegade instead of good and evil.

 

I don't know if your actions should necessarily be renegade but allowing us to be so harmful to the galaxy that it leads to a 'game over' might be fun.

 

No, companions should not affect the story too much if they are optional.

[BabyPuncher]

It shouldn't be.  Renegade is supposed to be pragmatic and hard, but not outright evil, and paragon is supposed to be idealistic and compassionate, but not the one side representing good.  Both options are supposed to be opposite faces of the same thing; being the hero.

 

As if 'ideals' and 'pragmatcism' were somehow opposed.

 

I have to wonder where the people who say this sort of thing think the 'ideals' in question came from. Did they magically sprout forth from the ground?

 

No, I don't imagine Paragon and Renegade were ever supposed to be this.

[rashie]

All I want is that what is a good choice story wise should be disconnected from morality, in the manner that there are bad choices on both renegade and paragon.

 

Far too often in Bioware games you end up gimping yourself badly by not being a goody two shoes.

[BohemiaDrinker]

"Paragon or Renegade" is just too simplistic, IMO.

 

There should be 4 options, Paragon (general nice guy), Renegade (Badass "douchey" fella), Good (overall saint) and Evil (psychotic mas murder)

[Red Panda]

"Paragon or Renegade" is just too simplistic, IMO.

 

There should be 4 options, Paragon (general nice guy), Renegade (Badass "douchey" fella), Good (overall saint) and Evil (psychotic mas murder)

What if we move past the 4 way DnD archaic attempt at explaining morality and not let old restrictive ideas fetter us?

[Mcfly616]

 They shouldn't be "evil" at all. Renegade choices should be more akin to an anti-hero than a villain. 

[StealthGamer92]

What if we move past the 4 way DnD archaic attempt at explaining morality and not let old restrictive ideas fetter us?

It's Bioware....we won't get that....

[BabyPuncher]

What if we move past the 4 way DnD archaic attempt at explaining morality and not let old restrictive ideas fetter us?

 

That's incredibly cute.

 

Go out and murder someone. I think you'll find the steel bars of your prison cell are in fact, quite real. You'll find yourself quite 'fettered' by them.

[tscpx]

All I want is that what is a good choice story wise should be disconnected from morality, in the manner that there are bad choices on both renegade and paragon.

 

Far too often in Bioware games you end up gimping yourself badly by not being a goody two shoes.

Yeah, it does seem like way more of the consequences for renegade actions are negative.

[Red Panda]

That's incredibly cute.

 

Go out and murder someone. I think you'll find the steel bars of your prison cell are in fact, quite real. You'll find yourself quite 'fettered' by them.

Red herring, but I'll bite. That's just society with laws.

 

Good and Evil do not exist in society.

 

The 4 way is a gamey archaic concept. It has no bearing on life.

 

There's just virtue and vices of the self and these things called laws and norms of where we live.

[N7Jamaican]

I don't want paragon/renegade to be good/evil.

 

I want the NPCs to determine that for example:

 

Situation - (paragon) save colonists while losing the intel or (renegade) sacrifice colonists to get intel.

 

While some would see saving others while losing intel is a "paragon" act, others would see sacrificing the colonists so that you can get the intel so many more people would live a "paragon" act.

 

I want that kind of system. 

[Panda]

I like to be renegade in certain extent. I have to go with ME2's being badass and awesome. Even if I'm renegade I want to be somewhat heroic. I don't want to be downright evil in the game. Overall i think in ME renegade options were in pretty good balance.

[Red Panda]

^ I'm not sure if that situation is properly paragon/renegade.

 

If ordered to retrieve intel and helping survivors is a secondary objective, then it's paragon to get the data, renegade to save the civilians.

 

Compassion is separate from the system, is it not?

[tscpx]

I don't want paragon/renegade to be good/evil.

 

I want the NPCs to determine that for example:

 

Situation - (paragon) save colonists while losing the intel or (renegade) sacrifice colonists to get intel.

 

While some would see saving others while losing intel is a "paragon" act, others would see sacrificing the colonists so that you can get the intel so many more people would live.

 

I want that kind of system. 

A bit like Dragon Age Origins then, where decisions you make aren't labelled bad or good and companions will judge you based on their own moral code?

[N7Jamaican]

^ I'm not sure if that situation is properly paragon/renegade.

 

If ordered to retrieve intel and helping survivors is a secondary objective, then it's paragon to get the data, renegade to save the civilians.

 

Compassion is separate from the system, is it not?

 

How would you have worded it?

[N7Jamaican]

A bit like Dragon Age Origins then, where decisions you make aren't labelled bad or good and companions will judge you based on their own moral code?

 

Never played DA:O, but yes.  Like how you've described.

[God]

Define 'evil'.

 

I prefer the secular term of 'tragic'

 

Evil is essentially unnecessary suffering. 

 

If I take Emmanuel Levinas' views on it, it the suffering is excessive to our definition of order.

 

It's not moral by a conventional means so much as it is the diametric to what we support (order). 

 

Mircea Eliade would even define evil as sacred.

[Red Panda]

How would you have worded it?

Not enough data.

 

Provide initial mission objectives.