376 réponses à ce sujet

[BabyPuncher]

Not so. I don't advocate Renegade decisions being particularly punished. I advocate them being handled pretty much as they are now. With the protagonist facing no punishment and incredibly feeble opposition for commiting outrageous acts of evil. With squadmates and allied characters accepting the player character when they really ought to at minimum be abandoning and testifying against them and oftentimes as much as shooting them in the head while they sleep.

[Feybrad]

I once played a Renegade Shepard in ME3. He had a Mustache. The only Thing I missed from that Playthrough to twirl my Mustache.

 

In all Seriousness, though, I don't think Renegade should be evil (or was evil, most of the Time). Instead, Paragon and Renegade show two Sets of Ideals.

Paragon Shep was an Idealist, that valued the Lives of others over the Success of the Mission and was inclined to trust others even with little Reason.

Renegade Shep was a Cynic, that put the Success of the Mission generally before the Lives of Individuals and had a hard Time trusting anyone.

 

I think, in Concept that is quite a refreshing Distinction, but sadly, the Execution came off as either biased towards paragon (even as a Paragon Player I agree that we got the better End of the Stick) and, especially in the case of Renegade, even inconsistent, as he got increasingly murderous and, yes, evil, as Time went on.

 

So I think, the overall Idea of Paragon vs. Renegade as Idealist vs. Cynic is not a bad One and should definitely be preferred over a Light Side / Dark Side Distinction - IF there has to be a Morality System at all, that is. I tend to prefer the Approval System of Dragon Age, as it still offers Feedback to your Actions, but not on a very arbitrary Scale, but in the Opinions and Affections of your Companions - who often had very differing Viewpoints. I feel, this is more superior AND somewhat more realistic than just a Rating of Blue and Orange.

 

However... I like the Concept of being able to play a Mustache twirling Villain. I recognize that it would not have been possible in the more recent BioWare Games, but it is what endeared Revan in KotoR to me for all Time. There is one Scene I can remember, where you would essentially tell Bastila that you're Eviler than her. You were more evil than the Villain. AND IT WAS GLORIOUS!

 

So while I do want to see the arbitrary Rating go away and be replaced by an Approval System at best, I would advocate to give the Player the option to be as bad a Person as the actual Villain - and face the Conquences. And then, in the End, in the final Confrontation tell them that you're better than them at being evil.

[AlanC9]

As if 'ideals' and 'pragmatcism' were somehow opposed.

Depends on the ideals, doesn't it?

[tscpx]

I once played a Renegade Shepard in ME3. He had a Mustache. The only Thing I missed from that Playthrough to twirl my Mustache.

 

In all Seriousness, though, I don't think Renegade should be evil (or was evil, most of the Time). Instead, Paragon and Renegade show two Sets of Ideals.

Paragon Shep was an Idealist, that valued the Lives of others over the Success of the Mission and was inclined to trust others even with little Reason.

Renegade Shep was a Cynic, that put the Success of the Mission generally before the Lives of Individuals and had a hard Time trusting anyone.

 

I think, in Concept that is quite a refreshing Distinction, but sadly, the Execution came off as either biased towards paragon (even as a Paragon Player I agree that we got the better End of the Stick) and, especially in the case of Renegade, even inconsistent, as he got increasingly murderous and, yes, evil, as Time went on.

 

So I think, the overall Idea of Paragon vs. Renegade as Idealist vs. Cynic is not a bad One and should definitely be preferred over a Light Side / Dark Side Distinction - IF there has to be a Morality System at all, that is. I tend to prefer the Approval System of Dragon Age, as it still offers Feedback to your Actions, but not on a very arbitrary Scale, but in the Opinions and Affections of your Companions - who often had very differing Viewpoints. I feel, this is more superior AND somewhat more realistic than just a Rating of Blue and Orange.

 

However... I like the Concept of being able to play a Mustache twirling Villain. I recognize that it would not have been possible in the more recent BioWare Games, but it is what endeared Revan in KotoR to me for all Time. There is one Scene I can remember, where you would essentially tell Bastila that you're Eviler than her. You were more evil than the Villain. AND IT WAS GLORIOUS!

 

So while I do want to see the arbitrary Rating go away and be replaced by an Approval System at best, I would advocate to give the Player the option to be as bad a Person as the actual Villain - and face the Conquences. And then, in the End, in the final Confrontation tell them that you're better than them at being evil.

Couldn't agree more!

[The Heretic of Time]

I like to be renegade in certain extent. I have to go with ME2's being badass and awesome. Even if I'm renegade I want to be somewhat heroic. I don't want to be downright evil in the game. Overall i think in ME renegade options were in pretty good balance.

 

I like the renegade path in ME1 and ME3 for the most part, but the renegade options in ME2 felt a little weak and even dumb sometimes.

I'm also sad that they got rid of the human supremacist dialogue options in ME2 and ME3. I really liked that we could play an earth-first type of Shepard who's somewhat mistrusting of aliens in ME1 and I wish they kept that in ME2 and ME3.

[StealthGamer92]

 

First, he's not some civilian which Shepard could knock with left finger. Second, he knew, and he would tell krogans about Gavorn's Shepard's trick, this isn't an option.

I guess so, still just seemed wrote lazily to lead to that all for a shock moment...not even a renegade peruasion option to shock him to his senses as you know as soon as Wrex and Eve die(if you cured the Genophage) the Krogan's had at least a 90% chance to revert to their old attitudee through the next leader.

[NKnight7]

The renegade options in Andromeda I'm hoping are similar to ME2. In the second game some of those renegade options were pretty badass, but in the third game some of the options really made you feel evil. Part of the reason why I pretty much always pick paragon options in the third game.

[warblewobble]

Don't pull any punches, Bioware,

[CuriousArtemis]

I've played a 90% renegade Shepard; at no point did I feel I was playing an evil character. I was playing a character who'd led a hard life (I chose to make him an orphan and sole survivor) and who believed that sometimes we have to suffer and even die for what we feel is right. He didn't have a bleeding heart and was unmoved and unafraid to hurt or kill people he thought weren't exactly good people. He was a flawed man but at heart a decent person who cared deeply about the people around him. 

 

That's the kind of "renegade" personality I hope they continue with. Usually when Shepard does something horrible, like kill Samara's daughter, they're doing it because they feel it's the right thing to do. They don't do it because they're trigger-happy-evil. (Unlike the Warden gratuitously shanking people in DAO.) A lot of people like to play characters (like "evil" Warden) for sh!ts and giggles, but ME usually doesn't allow that, and I hope that continues with MEA.

 

EDIT to add, I hope they don't strip away personalities completely, the way DAI pretty much did. I find it hard to fall in love with such dull blank slate characters.

[Dabrikishaw]

Mass Effect 2 evil

[BatarianBob]

Don't see any urgent need for a morality system, personally. If anything, it just seems to stifle player choice, which they keep claiming is so important.

[Sartoz]

                                                                          <<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>

 

Strictly speaking, our new Hero/ine can be a task oriented, hard-ass commander but still treat squad members with the proper respect they should deserve. That does not an evil make.

 

Evil, to me, implies cruelty.. which is not an approved game theme for a ME game. Plus, I hope the Paragon/Renegade thing is flushed down the toilet. I realize that the mechanic allowed for opening and closing dialogue options but Reputation can be a substitue, such as a Casanova, BadAss, Robot Personality(unemotional),... etc.

 

In any case , the original Renegade purpose was to influence the game's branching paths or affect your squad's attitude towards the PC/NPCs....which failed to work as intended..... another marketing pitch, btw.

 

So, what's the purpose of of having evil actions? I just don't see the necessity of it.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Dr. Chakwas mentioned it in the beginning of ME3 if you brought her aboard.

 

She suggested that for your scars to heal on their own that you be less of a realist (renegade) and more of an idealist (paragon). I think that was the intent. Unfortunately the choices sometimes were between totally whiny and psycho.

[Drone223]

Renegade actions should be about using extreme methods because there's a benefit in such actions rather than doing them for the sake of doing them. In fact ME should just ditch paragon/renegade altogether because the whole system is just terrible.

[Dantriges]

The benefit in kicking this merc out of the window was seeing him fall.

[Red Panda]

To be fair, I don't see how sabotaging the genophage at all could be evil.

 

It's honestly the safest decision to make. All it takes is one despot to re-introduce the Krogan expansionism problem.

[KaiserShep]

I'm just hoping to get a fair balance of amusing and at least somewhat sensible. I'd rather not have the stupid-evil packed on, though I think ME3 probably did this the best of the 3, since Shepard could be a total schizoid in previous chapters. The Warden's a fairly good example of a character that can venture into stupid-evil territory, because you can knife damn near everyone in sight, often with zero benefit, and you somehow constantly get away with it. 

[StealthGamer92]

Mass Effect 2 evil

PLEASE NO! That was the shalowest the Renegade option ever was in ME, why would you want that back?! Anyone remember the Renegade persuasion to Jeong on Feros? That was the most epic and true to Renagade moment ever! No shot's fired, and that little speach speaking to Jeong's ego and the promotion he was boud for after this blah blah. That showed a realist, the way Renegade was described he was a realist who'd do what needed to be done following logic and not Ideal's or emotion's. Then Renegade was made into a bad action movie hero rip-off in ME2 and rightfully toned back in ME3 and hopefully back to a realist in ME: A.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Renegade is supposed to be about being pragmatic not evil.

[Hazegurl]

Renegade shouldn't be "evil" at all. What evil person strives for a common good? That flies in the face of the definition of evil and being evil undermines the entire structure of these games. Some of the renegade choices we've been offered in the past were entirely stupid because they skewed to the realm of evil, as opposed to hardliner or ruthless. Things like killing Samara to have Morinth join you are absurd since there's no upside and there's only the potential for problems down the line.

I disagree. For a Renegade killing Samara is a smart choice.  It sadly just doesn't offer anything content wise.

 

There is nothing smart about a renegade letting Samara live after she flat out states she will hunt you down if you make a choice she doesn't approve of.  She even bring sit up again in ME3 if you don't let her blow her brains out.  Morinth is only a danger if you want to bang her and my Shep had no intention of ever doing that.

 

But I do agree that Renegade should not be "evil" but then again I've never saw Renegade options as evil anyway.

 

 

I've played a 90% renegade Shepard; at no point did I feel I was playing an evil character. I was playing a character who'd led a hard life (I chose to make him an orphan and sole survivor) and who believed that sometimes we have to suffer and even die for what we feel is right. He didn't have a bleeding heart and was unmoved and unafraid to hurt or kill people he thought weren't exactly good people. He was a flawed man but at heart a decent person who cared deeply about the people around him. 

 

That's the kind of "renegade" personality I hope they continue with. Usually when Shepard does something horrible, like kill Samara's daughter, they're doing it because they feel it's the right thing to do. They don't do it because they're trigger-happy-evil. (Unlike the Warden gratuitously shanking people in DAO.) A lot of people like to play characters (like "evil" Warden) for sh!ts and giggles, but ME usually doesn't allow that, and I hope that continues with MEA.

 

EDIT to add, I hope they don't strip away personalities completely, the way DAI pretty much did. I find it hard to fall in love with such dull blank slate characters.

I agree. My Shepard was Earthborn, a slum born orphan who joined gangs to survive. He cared about the people around him and made the hard decisions most people didn't want to make to save them.  I think only Paragon players view Renegade as "evil" and people who simply associate Paragon with "good" and therefore Renegade as automatically "Evil".

 

I also hope they don't go the DAI route. I never want to read another "nuanced" argument again.

[DebatableBubble]

I want to go back to committing genocide pls.  

[StealthGamer92]

I want to go back to committing genocide pls.  

You sir have the wrong spartan as your pic then.

[PhroXenGold]

In all Seriousness, though, I don't think Renegade should be evil (or was evil, most of the Time). Instead, Paragon and Renegade show two Sets of Ideals.

Paragon Shep was an Idealist, that valued the Lives of others over the Success of the Mission and was inclined to trust others even with little Reason.

Renegade Shep was a Cynic, that put the Success of the Mission generally before the Lives of Individuals and had a hard Time trusting anyone.

 

I disagree with this. My renegade put the lives of others first. She just considered the lives of the many above the lives of the few. The mission is not what matters. Saving as many lives as possible in the long run is what matters. You kill the terrorist now, even if it causes the loss of a few civilian lives, because if you don't, chances are they will kill far far more in the long run.

[SolNebula]

ME2 type of renegade is what I liked the most. Punching that mercs down from the tower was good. Also in Omega killing that batarian capt. with the electric stick was very satisfying. I loved ME2 renegade was quite fun.

[SolNebula]

I disagree with this. My renegade put the lives of others first. She just considered the lives of the many above the lives of the few. The mission is not what matters. Saving as many lives as possible in the long run is what matters. You kill the terrorist now, even if it causes the loss of a few civilian lives, because if you don't, chances are they will kill far far more in the long run.

 

Except this never properly happened in ME. You almost never paid for your paragon soft decision in the game.