376 réponses à ce sujet

[PhroXenGold]

Except this never properly happened in ME. You almost never paid for your paragon soft decision in the game.

 

Oh I agree (and it's a major issue in my mind. The "good" or "paragon" path almost always works out in BW games. I don't want it to always backfire on you, but there should be some occasions when making major decisions that the "ruthless" option works out best). But at the time she made the decision, then the likely outcome of letting terrorists go is that they will do far worse. Thus she takes the action she sees as bringing about the "most good" result.

[StealthGamer92]

Except this never properly happened in ME. You almost never paid for your paragon soft decision in the game.

Almost never? I never noticed any negative's at all on my Paragon trilogy playthrough, down to Renegade's practical decision being negated by The Destiny Ascension being strong enough to overcome the half strength fleet's which it seemed the Renegade choice should have gave more War Assets.

[PhroXenGold]

There are a few minor decsisions where the Paragon choice ends up worse. Off the top of my head, if you spare the asari scientist working for Saren in Virmire, she ends up going on an indoctrination fueled rampage in ME3.

[StealthGamer92]

There are a few minor decsisions where the Paragon choice ends up worse. Off the top of my head, if you spare the asari scientist working for Saren in Virmire, she ends up going on an indoctrination fueled rampage in ME3.

Oh, I killed her ME2 for being so dumb...explain's why I didn't know that one at least.

[Linkenski]

ME3 set a nice bar, but I'd like renegade to be silly again too, like in ME1 or ME2 where it just makes for some truly hilarious dialogues.

[Fizzie Panda]

Make the renegade options bad. Make the gap between Paragon and Renegade wider. I mean in Mass Effect it was well done. Keep it up.

[PhroXenGold]

Make the renegade options bad. Make the gap between Paragon and Renegade wider. I mean in Mass Effect it was well done. Keep it up.

 

But in ME the renegade options weren't bad for the most part. They were ruthless perhaps, but overall, they were primarily a mix of serving the greater good (i.e. better than the paragon options) and taking no crap from people (especially in the form of telling authority figures to go **** themselves). In the ME2 and 3 at times they diverged from this, but ME did it very well for the most part.

[judgezee]

Make the renegade options bad. Make the gap between Paragon and Renegade wider. I mean in Mass Effect it was well done. Keep it up.

I agree it was well done in Mass Effect. Playing through both paragon and renegade options you clearly saw the differences between the cold, ruthless renegade options in comparison to the paragon options.

[Seboist]

To be fair, I don't see how sabotaging the genophage at all could be evil.

 

It's honestly the safest decision to make. All it takes is one despot to re-introduce the Krogan expansionism problem.

 

It isn't, allowing a bunch of ultra-violent man-turtles with contempt for the citadel races to multiply faster than rats is asinine. Especially since ME1 and 2 state that it's their violent nature that's killing them off, not the genophage, but apparently according to ME3, the holy saviors called Wrex and Eve are supposed to make everything wonderful forever and ever after it's cured(lol).

 

How supporting the Krogan is even "Paragon" to begin with baffles me to this day.

[Asdrubael Vect]

renegate choices need to be profitabe evil, not just i kill someone for no sense when i am a damn soldier who do a mission

 

so when we kill or do a evil thing this should be rewarded, like really rewarded...and this is a moral dillemma to do in paragon way or do in renegate way, paragon must not be more rewarded and more easier than renegate

 

 

renegate hero from the start of ME games was a man who do anything to do a job, not a those who kill just for fun

[Ahriman]

There are a few minor decsisions where the Paragon choice ends up worse. Off the top of my head, if you spare the asari scientist working for Saren in Virmire, she ends up going on an indoctrination fueled rampage in ME3.

Too minor and too few. As a paragon player myself I want more things to bite me, someone has to pay for all this idealism. You don't think or doubt, just press the button and let good things happen.

ME is supposed to have M rating, no need to educate and enlighten it's fanbase.

[judgezee]

Too minor and too few. As a paragon player myself I want more things to bite me, someone has to pay for all this idealism. You don't think or doubt, just press the button and let good things happen.

ME is supposed to have M rating, no need to educate and enlighten it's fanbase.

Yeah, the consequences it seems from the paragon choices seem a bit "good". Every action has a reaction right?

[DebatableBubble]

You sir have the wrong spartan as your pic then.

Come on. I think Ol' Jorgey would be up for putting some alien freaks in their place.

[DebatableBubble]

There are a few minor decsisions where the Paragon choice ends up worse. Off the top of my head, if you spare the asari scientist working for Saren in Virmire, she ends up going on an indoctrination fueled rampage in ME3.

And little baby Elnora the new full-fledged Eclipse merc. I bet her friends are so jealous.


Both of them being asari where the paragon option of letting them live is the worse one... Methinks the asari are prime candidates to get killed off in Andromeda.

[Gago]

I would like the routes we take to not always end up in the positive. Sometimes Renegade should be better even though it is morally questionable. Putting Bhelen on the throne in DAO is a great example. 

 

I would like our companions to react to our choices and even be molded/influenced by them.

[StealthGamer92]

Come on. I think Ol' Jorgey would be up for putting some alien freaks in their place.

 

 

And little baby Elnora the new full-fledged Eclipse merc. I bet her friends are so jealous.


Both of them being asari where the paragon option of letting them live is the worse one... Methinks the asari are prime candidates to get killed off in Andromeda.

Well can't argue here, don't forget to bring you're improvised WMD and transport capable of carrying it.

[SolNebula]

nevermind

[Guitar-Hero]

To me renegade shouldn't be about being evil but more about being direct and not having the time to screw around

[judgezee]

To me renegade shouldn't be about being evil but more about being direct and not having the time to screw around

Example?

[General TSAR]

Renegade options shouldn't be "evil" to begin with, they should be ruthless and pragmatic. 

[PhroXenGold]

Example?

 

A nice little one would be in ME2 when you're interrogating that guy during Thane's loyalty mission. Paragon tries to covince him to give up the information. Renegade just points a gun at him and says "I'm a Spectre. I can kill you right here and no-one can do anything about it. Now, are you going to help me or not?".

 

In terms of how a renegade character should act in such a situation, that is perfect. No bullshit. No playing by the rules. Just getting things done in the most straightforward way.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I think it would be best to move away from a duality system. Life isn't black and white, so this overly simplified system has no place in games that strive for realistic depictions of people. While ME is soft sci-fi/fantasy, the people in it are more or less realistic personalities with complex emotions, motivations and circumstances.

 

I don't really want an approval system either, because most of the time that's just making things unnecessarily difficult. Like preventing you from taking a choice because someone in your squad would disapprove and you want to start their sidequest which only triggers at 75%+ approval rating...

One of the worst examples for that was Bao-Dur from KotOR2, who needed to be in the party at specific times and places to gain approval with him - otherwise he wouldn't become a Jedi.

 

The approval system in DA2 pretty much solved that problem by introducing rivalry, that way your character could act like you wanted and your companions were still loyal, even if they disagreed with you.

 

I also quite like the reputation system of Pillars of Eternity, which adds points to certain characteristics depending on your choices.

 

Aggressive – Hot-headed, bold, or impatient. Some characters will think that you provoke fights and make only trouble, but others will admire you for taking charge, being decisive, and not letting people push you around.
Benevolent – Charitable, kind, soft, or weak. May be viewed as charitable and kind but others may consider the player weak or assume he or she will do things for free.
Clever – Sarcastic, sassy, foppish, or irreverent. May be well received by some as amusing, but other characters will assume that you are not to be taken seriously.
Cruel – merciless, sadistic, brutal, or imperious. It doesn't typically earn you a lot of friends, but there are people who respect (and/or fear) brutality.
Deceptive – dishonest, manipulative, or shrewd.
Diplomatic – Cautious, tame, or courteous. For example gained by remaining silent when two people are arguing and you choose to not interject.
Honest – guileless, sincere, or straightforward. Gained for being straightforward. e.g. telling a guard that you broke in the house.
Passionate – zealous, romantic, or obsessive.
Rational – practical, standoffish, or cold.
Stoic – tight-lipped, cool-headed, or simple-minded. Gained for being unmoved/quiet in dialog options.

 

http://pillarsofeter...com/Disposition

 

This allows you to act with more precision than simply being Paragon or Renegade. Combine this with the rivalry system from DA2 for the companions and you'd have a winning strategy.

[judgezee]

A nice little one would be in ME2 when you're interrogating that guy during Thane's loyalty mission. Paragon tries to covince him to give up the information. Renegade just points a gun at him and says "I'm a Spectre. I can kill you right here and no-one can do anything about it. Now, are you going to help me or not?".

 

In terms of how a renegade character should act in such a situation, that is perfect. No bullshit. No playing by the rules. Just getting things done in the most straightforward way.

Ah OK, then inlight of something like that (I chose to punch that guy repeatedly in that example) I think thats a great way to differentiate between paragon and renegade, straightforward, doesn't take ****.

[Han Shot First]

I think it should depend entirely on what sort of background the protagonist has, because a sadistic psychopath wouldn't make sense with some backgrounds.

 

If they are Alliance military, renegade should be more about going the Han Solo route than mustache twirling villainy. 

 

If the character is a pirate or a mercenary than renegade should be more evil. 

[Milan92]

I want them to get rid of the morality meter in general.