49 réponses à ce sujet

[Groove Widdit]

I was thinking about buying DAO complete, but it just looks like a lesser version of NWN2. I know they're both Bioware. Does anybody out there think it's as good or better than Neverwinter?

[kamal_]

Dragon Age Origins is very well reviewed and highly popular. It's also probably quite inexpensive by now. Bioware didn't make NWN2 though, Obsidian did. The official nwn2 forums are here at Bioware's site via a quirk because Bioware did nwn1.

[Tchos]

There are too many factors to boil it down to a single-dimensional "better".

 

But I started with DA:O, and loved it.  I modded for it, too.  Then I discovered that NWN2 was similar, and started playing that.  I loved it more, and have been playing and modding it ever since.

[Groove Widdit]

Oh, I thought DAO was the same game engine as NWN2. That's why I wanted it in the first place.

[-Semper-]

nwn1 used the original aurora as the game engine. later obsidian used that engine as a base, changed lots of stuff and called it electron. bioware also used their own engine again, and after changes called it eclipse (dragon age origins). the witcher 1 is based on aurora too. both the kotors are also driven by aurora.

[satch4684]

I was really impressed with the game the first time around, I don't think I ever finished it though. Then I picked it up on steam for cheap a year or so ago, it felt kind of "meh" for some reason and I haven't played it since. Although story and characters might be better, that was what really stood out in DA.

[rjshae]

I think character development in NWN2 is much better than in DA:O, and it has a greater variety of creatures, spells, feats, skills, &c. But DA:O has better graphical technology and I enjoyed the plot line a little more. It's a toss up.

[Arkalezth]

Both have a toolset, but NWN2 has way more custom content, modules, mutiplayer, etc, all of which make it  a "better" game for me. If we're comparing the original campaigns or the gameplay, I prefer DAO overall.

 

Also, in my opinion, DA1>DA2>DA3.

[Groove Widdit]

DOA has better graphics? Except for that my excitement level for it has achieved meh levels.

[Snowdog65]

I really don't like the DA RPG system. It's boring. IIRC there is no multiclassing.  Magic is mana pool type thing, instead of memorized spells. IIRC everything auto maxes after every battle. 

 

NWN feels more like PnP, DA, more like a Video game.

 

DA is worth playing once for the more cinematic campaign.

 

DA makes a better movie, NWN 1+2 have more depth.

 

IMO

[Groove Widdit]

Yeah, I want to play DD.

[rjshae]

DOA has better graphics? Except for that my excitement level for it has achieved meh levels.

 

Well yeah, they're a little better. A big part is likely due to higher res. textures and poly count.

 

[Arkalezth]

Yeah, I want to play DD.

If you mean Dungeons and Dragons, DAO isn't based on those rules. It's still a great game so I wouldn't discard it for that reason alone (nor I'd play it just because "it has better graphics"). But to each their own.

I really don't like the DA RPG system. It's boring. IIRC there is no multiclassing.  Magic is mana pool type thing, instead of memorized spells. IIRC everything auto maxes after every battle.

I don't necessarily consider multiclassing good or something that makes a game better, but still, DAO has different PRCs (some of which may change the playstyle) and each class can be built in different ways. Many NWN2 classes are slight variations of the same thing.

As for boring... well, we'll just have to agree to disagree. More active abilities as opposed to auto-attacking most of the time, and IMO, mana >>>...>>> memorised spells, sustained buffs >>> time-dependant buffs, etc.

NWN feels more like PnP, DA, more like a Video game.

And that's why I prefer DAO's mechanics, as they're designed with a videogame in mind, and we're talking about videogames after all.

[Snowdog65]

A lot of people get a lot of entertainment out of building characters in NWN 1/2.  Which is why we have things like:

http://nwn2db.com/

 

With over 10 000 character builds.

 

There is big difference between Console Video Game RPGs and Computer RPGs IMO. I prefer CRPGs to Console RPGs.

 

DA characters with 3 classes, and a skill tree like action RPGs (Diablo) are boring in comparison. They lack depth, aimed more at console gamers.

 

DA is a nice CGI movie, you can watch a "lets play" and get a lot of it's value IMO.

[Arkalezth]

Are we talking about building characters or about playing the game? Because they're different things.

I'll concede you that NWN2 has more classes and such (again, the difference may not be as great as it seems, but fine). But that alone doesn't make DAO objectively more boring in general, and I fail to see how this "depth" affects it being more or less "movie-ish" at all (I disagree with the Let's Play stuff, BTW, and find both games pretty similar in that regard. But still, being able to play a bard/druid changes nothing about it).

Ultimately, asking whether this game is objectively better than that game is a bit of a silly question. Bottom line is: I personally like DAO and recommend it to anyone who likes RPGs. I prefer NWN2 in some aspects and DAO in others, but I consider both great games on their own.

[Snowdog65]

I don't think I have been unclear. Building characters is much more boring in DA, in fact it is almost pointless. With 3 character classes and no multiclassing, there really isn't that much to consider.

 

NWN is like many classic CRPGs, DA is more of a gaming console based RPG.

 

I am expressing a preference for classic CRPG gaming, over console RPG gaming style.

 

I am not saying it is absolutely better. Just better for me.

 

A massive amount of work went into the DA OC, and it is vastly better than the NWN2 OC. 

 

But for me DA was one full play and done, but I have  put in well over a thousand hours playing NWN/NWN2.

[Shallina]

DAO or NWN2 you can t go wrong with either of them. They are both amazing games.

[MayCaesar]

I'd say DAO wins in terms of presentation (those cutscenes, visuals, music, fluidity of combat are amazing), while NWN2 wins in terms of complexity. DAO feels like a modern game even today, there isn't really much to criticize about it, it is extremely polished. NWN2, however, has a very rich collection of classes and races which, together with multi-classing and, especially, ability in Storm of Zehir for you to make 4 characters totally from scratch and play them leads to millions of possible builds. NWN2 modding community is pretty active, while DAO one is quite dead. NWN2 official campaigns are good, but nothing special (except for MotB) in my opinion, while DAO official campaign is great, both in terms of story and character interaction.

 

Overall, I'd say this:

For official content, DAO is better than NWN2.

For user made content, NWN2 is great, and DAO is null, it doesn't have any real user made modules, as far as I am aware.

In terms of combat, I like DAO combat better, but NWN2 combat is more deep and complex.

 

If you liked NWN2, then definitely go for DAO, you are unlikely to be disappointed. As for later games, DA2 and DAI - it depends. DA2 was rushed and, while it has interesting characters, it falls short in many other regards - people have mixed opinion on this game, so I would recommend that you play it only if you really liked DAO and want to see how the story continues (of course, you can always just watch a story compilation: the combat in this game is weird, and many people gave up on playing it just because of it). DAI... That is a totally different kind of game. It is open world, like Elder Scrolls series, but with some MMO-like elements and with quite a bit of story. Since you are interested mostly in D&D, as you say, I don't think DAI is for you.

 

Oh, and if you go with DAO, get the Ultimate edition. The DLCs are very good, and the expansion, while short and a bit weird in terms of story, still is definitely worth playing.

 

---

 

Bottom line: if all you are interested in is the official content, then I'd say DAO >>> NWN2>>>NWN1. For custom content, NWN1>NWN2 >>> DAO.

[Tchos]

For user made content, NWN2 is great, and DAO is null, it doesn't have any real user made modules, as far as I am aware.

 

Actually, there are a couple dozen or so.  I even made one.

[Arkalezth]

I played a few of those DAO modules a year or two ago, and some of them (including Tchos') were fine, although not in the same level as many NWN1&2 ones, IMO. They were also pretty short, except for one.

 

If you have DAO, I'd suggest to give some of those modules a try at some point, but I wouldn't buy the game because of them (as I would in the case of NWN1&2).

[Tchos]

I'd actually much rather someone play my NWN2 module instead of my DA:O module, since I was very inexperienced at the time I made the DA:O one, but as a modder I can confirm what Ark suggests, that DA:O modules are much more limited than NWN2 can be, due to the smaller set of game mechanics, smaller bestiary and usable content, and reduced features compared to NWN2.  Those are some of the many reasons I migrated here.

[MayCaesar]

Actually, there are a couple dozen or so.  I even made one.

 

Nice, I didn't know that! I remember watching Baldur's Gate Redux development, waiting for it to be released - but it has never been finished unfortunately.

 

Back in mid-2000s, I played with Warcraft 3 world editor a lot, and I loved it. It was really easy to use, it was very intuitive, and it took very little time to make something playable there. In fact, I made a couple of story-based RPGs there, and one even had multiple conversation options, just like in Neverwinter Nights. Then, Starcraft 2 was released, along with editor. Excited, I jumped right into it... and after a few days of struggle, I came back to Warcraft 3 editor. Not only was Starcraft 2 editor unnecessarily much more complicated, but creating a simple unit with a couple of abilities would take an hour there, while in Warcraft 3 editor it could be made in less than 5 minutes, if you were experienced enough.

Did something like this happen to DAO toolset, compared to NWN ones?

[Tchos]

Well, Baldur's Gate Redux was going to be released in segments.  They released Irenicus' Dungeon, and they were working on Waukeen's Promenade when things slowed and then halted.  According to Darth Parametric, it will not continue due to lack of qualified help.

 

From my experience with the DA:O and NWN2 toolsets, I'm inclined to say that the DA:O one is more complicated, but I was also less experienced at the time, so I can't say for sure.  I can definitely say, though, that the worst, most frustrating, and longest part of modding for it was the baking of the areas, with its buggy light mapper.

 

As for scripting, Sunjammer released numerous demo modules for DA:O showing how to script common quest update mechanics, so I know that much can be done, but I didn't attain the kind of mastery in its scripting to know whether it's as powerful as the NWN2 scripting, whereas I know that virtually anything I could possibly want to have in a quest can be done in NWN2.

[kamal_]

There is at least one DAO module still being made: http://amstradherocr...s.blogspot.com/

ArmstradHero made the highly popular Fate of a City module for nwn2.

[Snowdog65]

 DA2 was rushed and, while it has interesting characters, it falls short in many other regards - people have mixed opinion on this game, so I would recommend that you play it only if you really liked DAO and want to see how the story continues (of course, you can always just watch a story compilation: the combat in this game is weird, and many people gave up on playing it just because of it).

 

DA2 must be in the running for the worse thing Bioware ever did.  I genuinely hated it and recommend against wasting your time/money on this one.

 

It is not really a continuation of the story. Just another story in the same universe.  So no need to play it for that. No need to play it at all.

 

DA2:

 

More console oriented: Classes dumbed down even more. Warriors can't dual wield or use bows anymore. Only rogues can. Just about every conversation has three choices: Good, Neutral(snarky), Bad. With little color coded graphics to let you know which is which.

 

It's a tedious cash grind. Money is very tight, you have to tediously grind out each copper. You get dirt for anything you sell (like 1/100 what it cost to buy).  You know that 1st level grind in many NWN campaigns where you are cash crunched and you have to loot everything and buy nothing in hopes of someday buying something good. In almost every NWN campaign you quickly get over that hump.  That grind never goes away in DA2.

 

Maps are tedious and re-purposed endlessly. Part of the 40 hour play time here is on twisty, aggravating to navigate small passages on maps, that you will go back and forth through dozens of times grind side quests. Some of it is because the map is the same area, just full of new enemies, but other it is supposed to be different dungeon, but they just reused the same map.

 

I also didn't like the way the story was told as a recall of past events, and the jumps of years between chapters. Hey it is three years later and I still have the same gear/cash/XPs as three years ago...

 

DA2 is a grindy, pointless filler sequel.