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Something the Asari Councillor Said


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#201
Drone223

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Lots of people complain about stupid stuff and/or make stupid complaints. Your complaint is stupid. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Bioware trying to ignore the events of the trilogy is a valid concern since Korgan are going to be present in this game its going to make the genophage arc moot.

 



#202
Malanek

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I wouldn't consider referring to that line as a retcon because they are not changing anything. But there are problems with it. If they do they will be trying to tie the past, which they can't alter, into the future. But it's like trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole. As I said before, the councils actions revolving around Shep and their disbelief of the Reapers is not going to make sense if they knew about them. It won't feel natural. Continuity is great when it feels natural, but this isn't going to.

 

Rather than come up with a story, and then try and imagine it fitting into the past, it is always better to let it evolve naturally and say what happens next.


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#203
Drone223

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I wouldn't consider referring to that line as a retcon because they are not changing anything. But there are problems with it. If they do they will be trying to tie the past, which they can't alter, into the future. But it's like trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole. As I said before, the councils actions revolving around Shep and their disbelief of the Reapers is not going to make sense if they knew about them. It won't feel natural. Continuity is great when it feels natural, but this isn't going to.

 

Rather than come up with a story, and then try and imagine it fitting into the past, it is always better to let it evolve naturally and say what happens next.

Indeed, Bioware clearly didn't put much thought into that line when they were developing ME3 at the time. The same can be said with Leviathan and EC while they were nice additions its quite obvious that both should've been in ME3 from the get go.



#204
Killroy

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Bioware trying to ignore the events of the trilogy is a valid concern since Korgan are going to be present in this game its going to make the genophage arc moot.

 

So the Krogan can't exist outside the Milky Way if they are still afflicted by the genophage? That makes no sense. They exist just fine in the Milky Way with the genephage, they just have a low birth rate. And it's very easy to side-step the entire issue by having an ark leave the Milky Way before Shepard cured or didn't cure the genophage.

Changing the setting for future titles does nothing to invalidate the original trilogy or your choices therein. Arguing otherwise is illogical and stupid.


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#205
Drone223

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So the Krogan can't exist outside the Milky Way if they are still afflicted by the genophage? That makes no sense. They exist just fine in the Milky Way with the genephage, they just have a low birth rate. And it's very easy to side-step the entire issue by having an ark leave the Milky Way before Shepard cured or didn't cure the genophage.

Changing the setting for future titles does nothing to invalidate the original trilogy or your choices therein. Arguing otherwise is illogical and stupid.

Except that one in a thousand krogan are fertile and they'll won't have enough numbers to maintain a viable population in another galaxy with so little numbers. Not to mention the entire fate of the krogan species is tied with the genophage being cured or not. If the genophage is going to be cured one way or the other than the entire genophage arc becomes pointless since some one else will cure the genophage.



#206
Killroy

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Except that one in a thousand krogan are fertile and they'll won't have enough numbers to maintain a viable population in another galaxy with so little numbers.


How do you know? Do you know how many fertile Krogans are on the ark in Andromeda?

Not to mention the entire fate of the krogan species is tied with the genophage being cured or not. If the genophage is going to be cured one way or the other than the entire genophage arc becomes pointless since some one else will cure the genophage.


Show me where BioWare said the genophage is cured no matter what you chose to do. And then explain to me how you aren't being a hypocrite, since you've been advocating for retcons/ignoring player's choices.
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#207
Drone223

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How do you know? Do you know how many fertile Krogans are on the ark in Andromeda?

Fertile krogan are high prized and heavily missing fertile females would never go unnoticed and would make people suspicious of their disappearance. Also finding enough fertile females is easier said than done since most if not all of them are on tuctanka with and overall population in the billions it'll be like finding a needle in a hay stack.

 

Show me where BioWare said the genophage is cured no matter what you chose to do.

 

If the korgan are still going to live one way or the other then there's no point in sabotaging the cure.

 

 

And then explain to me how you aren't being a hypocrite, since you've been advocating for retcons/ignoring player's choices.

 

There are many ways can continue the series without leaving the galaxy and invalidating player choices. Bioware can easily maintain do a DA:keep like app and allow players to pick their choices into the next game. Making certain choices is not ideal and should be avoided (even if its one or two) but if it had to come to that its much more preferable to throwing away most of the established lore, setting and continuity.



#208
prosthetic soul

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The Asari are the reason the Reapers won in the Milky Way galaxy.  Let em rot. 


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#209
Han Shot First

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The Asari are the reason the Reapers won in the Milky Way galaxy.  Let em rot. 

 

The Reapers won?



#210
Broganisity

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The Reapers won?

 

Indeed. . .? :huh:

Although could you just imagine the tears if Bioware canonized Refuse? Or better yet, Canonized Shepard dying in ME2 and thus the Crucible is never worked on in ME3? It would be chaos, kinda like how X-COM 2 canonizes that the player lost in the first game. :lol:



#211
Spectr61

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The Asari are the reason the Reapers won in the Milky Way galaxy.  Let em rot.


Exactly. Selfish, self-centered, lets-keep-it-to-ourselves and therefore damm everyone idiots.

Throw the lot out the airlock.
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#212
Ahriman

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Exactly. Selfish, self-centered, lets-keep-it-to-ourselves and therefore damm everyone idiots.

Throw the lot out the airlock.

Uhm, so which race we are talking about?



#213
Chealec

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Fertile krogan are high prized and heavily missing fertile females would never go unnoticed and would make people suspicious of their disappearance. Also finding enough fertile females is easier said than done since most if not all of them are on tuctanka with and overall population in the billions it'll be like finding a needle in a hay stack.

 

Krogan live for 1000+ years; from what we know of ME:A there's nothing to say that the only krogan along aren't just a merc band who never returned to Tuchanka after the genophage was cured ... or even if the races that arrived in Andromeda didn't leave before the genophage was cured and have been in stasis for the past few hundred years.

 

There really isn't enough information available one way or the other to know anything apart from the fact that the game is set in Andromeda, long after the events of the original trilogy and that there will be humans, at least 1 krogan, something called the Khet and something else (which seems a bit like a Prothean analog) called the Remnant.



#214
prosthetic soul

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The Reapers won?

They may as well have.   Two of the four endings have the Reapers survive. 



#215
Vilio1

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They may as well have.   Two of the four endings have the Reapers survive.


And that's Shepard's decision alone.

#216
prosthetic soul

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And that's Shepard's decision alone.

No.  That was Starbrat's allowing Shepard to make that decision. 


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#217
Wulfram

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And that's Shepard's decision alone.

 

Well, without Liara Shepard would have never got there, so it's obviously all the Asari's fault.


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#218
Former_Fiend

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I will say that while I doubt the line was put in with MEA in mind - Bioware hasn't shown that level of foresight previously so i'm not inclined to attribute it to them now - post Thessia is the point that makes the most sense to me for the ARK project to launch.

 

This is the point where the galaxy as a whole is out of the 'chicken with it's head cut off phase' of the Reaper invasion, and, to an extent, has it's act together, but at the same time, this is the darkest hour, morale's the lowest, it looks like the Reapers are going to win and our Hail Mary, the Crucible, is going to be a bust.

 

This is the point that, in my mind, the contingencies and back up plans get put into motion. This is where we start bunkering down, this is where we get out of Dodge. 

 

The upside to this time scale is that we don't have to worry about the outcome of the endings and whether or not everyone has glowing matrix code on their skin and the true implications of that if they do. 

 

The downside is that they would have to tackle, at the very least, the genophage cure, and whether or not the geth or quarians or neither were wiped out.

 

Personally I think those are issues they *should* tackle, but not everyone agrees.


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#219
Mordokai

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The Asari are the reason the Reapers won in the Milky Way galaxy.  Let em rot. 

 

Well, if it wasn't for one specific asari, the whole cycle of reaping would have started three years sooner and this cycle would have been doomed to the same fate as all the ones before it. Also, our beloved Space Jesus(aka, Shepard) would die(as in, permanently) if it wasn't for that same asari.

 

So if we're judging the whole race on the retarded actions of a minority of retarded individuals, lets also judge it by the actions of the one member that actually made the fight against Reapers possible in the first place.

 

Exactly. Selfish, self-centered, lets-keep-it-to-ourselves and therefore damm everyone idiots.

Throw the lot out the airlock.

 

Do I really need to point out again how short sighted it is to judge the entire race based on the decision of politicians? Or should I rather point out how hypocritical it is to judge the asari based on the decision their politicians made but at the same time, totally forget how much more FUBAR the situation would be if certain human politician would have succeeded in his plans?


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#220
Han Shot First

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If species were judged by the actions of individuals, shouldn't humanity also be damned? After all the traitorous 5th Column that succeeds in nearly undermining the entire war effort was entirely human, and aided by humanity's own councilor. The Illusive Man and Udina would be joining the ranks of Ephialtes, Arnold, Petain, and Quisling as some of humanity's most notorious traitors. 

 

On that note I always find it somewhat humorous when people gripe about the Asari Councilor not revealing the beacon earlier, when Udina outright allies himself with the indoctrinated faction and nearly hands victory to the Reapers with a ridiculous coup attempt.


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#221
Vilio1

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Every democratically elected or representative political figure in Mass Effect is either portrayed as a coward, power-hungry, self-serving or corrupt - and the asari councilor is hardly the worst here. If we judge the ME species by their politicians, we might as well just give in to harvesting.

#222
In Exile

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If species were judged by the actions of individuals, shouldn't humanity also be damned? After all the traitorous 5th Column that succeeds in nearly undermining the entire war effort was entirely human, and aided by humanity's own councilor. The Illusive Man and Udina would be joining the ranks of Ephialtes, Arnold, Petain, and Quisling as some of humanity's most notorious traitors. 

 

On that note I always find it somewhat humorous when people gripe about the Asari Councilor not revealing the beacon earlier, when Udina outright allies himself with the indoctrinated faction and nearly hands victory to the Reapers with a ridiculous coup attempt.

 

People don't gripe about it becuase ultimately they get to stop Udina. Thessia as a whole generates frustration because of what Shepard can't do (beat Kai Leng, show up the high-minded asari, not care about their world being curbstomped, agreeing with Joker, etc.).



#223
Hanako Ikezawa

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Every democratically elected or representative political figure in Mass Effect is either portrayed as a coward, power-hungry, self-serving or corrupt - and the asari councilor is hardly the worst here. If we judge the ME species by their politicians, we might as well just give in to harvesting.

To be fair, there were some politicians who weren't like that. Admiral Anderson, Primarch Victus, even Urdnot Wrex. 



#224
Killroy

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To be fair, there were some politicians who weren't like that. Admiral Anderson, Primarch Victus, even Urdnot Wrex.


All politicians who weren't actually politicians.

#225
sH0tgUn jUliA

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Admiral Anderson was a military officer. Primarch Victus was a general. Urdnot Wrex was a bounty hunter. I guess these are the types of people who should be leading then. This is the hidden message.

 

The Asari councilor is hardly the worst here. Udina had become defacto civilian leader of the Earth Alliance after the destruction of Arcturus Station by the Reapers. He could have been a hero, but he threw in with one of the enemies we were fighting against - one of the enemies Admiral Hackett was fighting against: Cerberus. The Asari Councilor was only doing what the Matriarchs representing the different republics were telling her to do. Same with the Salarian Councilor, and the Turian Councilor. The Dalatrass on the other hand....

 

Regarding the Krogan, it's probably a Krogan male since most Krogan would rather fight for credits than remain on Tuchanka. So there's probably a few Krogan males who volunteered for the security force for a ton of credits. Who says there are Krogan females? And another thing.... since the genophage was only mentioned as released on Tuchanka, how did it get released on other Krogan worlds like Garvug? There is no mention in lore about that. Or does the cold environment and lack of food there take care of the excess population?