368 réponses à ce sujet

[SwobyJ]

Well there's actually a little more to the Titans than that, but you raise some fair points and I concede that it's possible I'm reading too much into similarities between the two series.

 

Still, as someone who's familiar with both universes, the parallels bother me a bit and I honestly find the idea that Bioware might be taking pages from Warcraft's book to be really cheap compared to taking pages from vastly superior universes like LotR and ASoIaF. That's just my view.

 

I understand. Sorry if I came off strong.

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

And yet they chose to call them Titans. They could've called them literally anything else. And already they've apparently dropped the bomb that dwarves are the Titan's "children." I hope they're not gonna write that Titans were the ones who imprisoned the Old Gods next. Also, I honestly wouldn't have brought up the Old Gods at all if they didn't actually call them Old Gods. The concept itself isn't new, but they still chose to go with that name, in addition to the almost identical backstory and even similar abilities.

 

When you factor everything together including the highly similar gameplay elements I mentioned, it kinda begs the question of just where Bioware got some of its "inspiration" for the DA franchise from.

 

Now I will say one thing: I'm a huge fan of DA:O. It's one of my favorite games of all time, and I'd definitely say on the whole that it's far more interesting and memorable than Warcraft is. It has better characters, sharper dialogue, a more involving storyline, and its lore (including its "take" on Old Gods) is still much more interesting to me than Warcraft's.

 

But the whole Titan thing... sheesh. What's next, a demonic legion invading from another dimension? Oh wait...

 

Ummm... you do realize these have more in common with the Greek myths about the Titans, the Old Gods, and the post-creation myths that allowed the Olympian pantheon to come to power, right?

 

All of that predates WoW by almost three millennia. 

 

I'm rather floored by how you leaped to the assumption that Dragon Age is stealing it's inspirations from a relatively recent phenomena as opposed to the Classical myths and legends that have suffused through most of the Western world. 
 

[Kayterschmater]

I have to say that I was so excited when we got to the inside of the titan and saw the buildings and homes.  I actually thought that it was maybe Arlathan and had a major moment.  But then it really was just about lyrium.  Getting tired of plot beginnings with no real end. 

[Leoroc]

Dagna would have been better for Valta's role I think. I still would have liked some kind of choice, like destroy Titan heart or heal it at the cost of Dagna's life. Something with consequence resulting from our actions.

[robertthebard]

It's really not that baseless of an assumption, especially if you're familiar with Warcraft lore in even a light capacity. As someone who actually is, I can easily say that some of DA's lore has more in common with Warcraft's than it does with Greek mythology. Whether that means DA really ripped Warcraft off... maybe, maybe not. But it does make me a little skeptical.

Well, at least you didn't accuse the Ancient Greeks of stealing from Blizzard.

I wonder though, where it is you think they pulled their inspiration from? Did they have people in a vacuum that have never heard of any of these mythos writing, or do you suppose they modeled their stuff after existing stuff? I'll give you a hint: They didn't have people in a vacuum writing this stuff, they borrowed from established mythos just as heavily as anyone else does.

[robertthebard]

You mean where do I think Blizzard pulled their inspiration from? You've already said it yourself. Their Titans are indeed based (somewhat loosely) on the ones from Greek mythology. And in the case of their particular take on Old Gods, from H. P. Lovecraft and the Cthulhu mythos.
 
But where Warcraft borrows its ideas from has no effect on my skepticism regarding the inspiration for DA's lore, since believe or not, Blizzard actually does put their own spin on things. And the way Bioware has written and incorporated Old Gods into their story hits a bit too close to Blizzard's particular spin on the concept.
 
I can see though that the whole idea of what I'm saying is flying over peoples' heads, especially since most of you probably haven't actually played any Warcraft games, and are naturally biased in favor of DA anyway. So I think I'm wasting my time trying to explain it at this point and probably shouldn't have brought it up at all.

The problem is bolded by me in your quote. Since it's likely that both companies are using the same source material, there are bound to be similarities. However, Blizzard does not own the rights on Ancient Greek Mythology, nor on H. P. Lovecraft's work. So nothing that anyone does after Blizzard, that ties into either scenario, no matter how marginally, can be claimed as being stolen from Blizzard. It's not that it's flying over anyone's head, it's that you're wrong.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The Dragon Age Old Gods don't appear to be based on the Lovecraft Mythos like the the Warcraft Old Gods are, but I don't think he's wrong about the similarities between the Bioware Titans and the Blizzard Titans. If DA Titans are based on anything it does feel like it is more likely the WoW Titans than Greek Mythology. 

 

It's been a long time since I did any research on the Ancient Greek Titans, so I don't know if they were conceptualized as being made of stone or metal but they definitely didn't have a association with being the creators of dwarves because our modern fantasy image of dwarves didn't exist back then, and the ancient culture and mythology that inspired them wasn't Greek. 

[Elhanan]

Norse pantheon for Dwarves perhaps?

[robertthebard]

DA's Old Gods aren't based specifically on Old Gods in the Cthulhu mythos like Warcraft's are, but the thing that annoys me a bit about them is the concept of "the Song." The Old Gods use it to lure darkspawn and other beings with the darkspawn taint to the location of their prisons in order to release them, in a similar way the Old Gods in Warcraft use "whispers" to do the same with the Twilight's Hammer and other weak-minded individuals. That idea might not really be new either, but it does stick out to me.
 
I could honestly go a lot further with the Warcraft comparisons. I could go into similarities between DA:I's demonic invasion and the Burning Legion, similarities between the Dalish Elves and the Night Elves, some similarities between the Fade and the Emerald Dream, the origin stories in DA:O and the starting areas in WoW, and probably some more stuff. However, I admit I'd have to stretch things a bit more for those to be really relevant.
 
However, factoring everything together (that's REALLY important since taken individually these elements mean nothing), the number of similarites does bother me a bit. You all might not see it, but I do.

Songs used to lure: Sirens. It doesn't matter what number you multiply by 0, the result is still 0.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

DA's Old Gods aren't based specifically on Old Gods in the Cthulhu mythos like Warcraft's are, but the thing that annoys me a bit about them is the concept of "the Song." The Old Gods use it to lure darkspawn and other beings with the darkspawn taint to the location of their prisons in order to release them, in a similar way the Old Gods in Warcraft use "whispers" to do the same with the Twilight's Hammer and other weak-minded individuals. That idea might not really be new either, but it does stick out to me.

 

I could honestly go a lot further with the Warcraft comparisons. I could go into similarities between DA:I's demonic invasion and the Burning Legion, similarities between the Dalish Elves and the Night Elves, some similarities between the Fade and the Emerald Dream, the origin stories in DA:O and the starting areas in WoW, and probably some more stuff. However, I admit I'd have to stretch things a bit more for those to be really relevant.

 

However, factoring everything together (that's REALLY important since taken individually these elements mean nothing), the number of similarites does bother me a bit. You all might not see it, but I do.

 

The Breach did did seem really rather reminiscent of The Burning Legion invasion, especially with demons arriving in the falling green rocks. But since it was a symptom of the real problem rather than the cause like in Warcraft III, I feel like those similarities still ended up being relatively superficial. The Breach and the Veil Tears were causing random chaos, rather than an organized invasion from the fade at the behest of some ancient and powerful demon lords.

 

The rest of the things you mention don't really stand out to me. The whispers of C'thun and Yogg-Saron are what they use to madden and corrupt mortals into their service. But the song of the Old Gods in Dragon Age is something that only beings that are already tainted can hear, and it might even be an involuntary reaction on the part of the dragon gods because being transformed into Archdemons is something that doesn't seem to benefit them. If anything, the Old Gods song sort of leads to themselves being corrupted by others, so in a way it's the complete opposite.

 

And if the Fade is based on anything, I think it would be more based on the Warp from Warhammer than the Emerald Dream.

[AedanStarfang]

The Dragon Age Old Gods don't appear to be based on the Lovecraft Mythos like the the Warcraft Old Gods are, but I don't think he's wrong about the similarities between the Bioware Titans and the Blizzard Titans. If DA Titans are based on anything it does feel like it is more likely the WoW Titans than Greek Mythology. 

 

It's been a long time since I did any research on the Ancient Greek Titans, so I don't know if they were conceptualized as being made of stone or metal but they definitely didn't have a association with being the creators of dwarves because our modern fantasy image of dwarves didn't exist back then, and the ancient culture and mythology that inspired them wasn't Greek. 

The Titans did not have any links to Dwarves in mythology, nor were they constructs of stone and/or metal. They were primordial gods that ruled the earth in the chaotic ages before Zeus killed Kronos and had the rest of them tossed into Tartarus. 

[WardenWade]

Not a spoiler, but I have to say it's so good to hear David Hayter again, doing his best Solid Snake for Renn

[Mr Walker]

Just finished, I quite enjoyed that.  Some nice lore, some nice new loot, about 7 hours worth of gameplay.

 

Not bad value for money. 

[robertthebard]

Not a spoiler, but I have to say it's so good to hear David Hayter again, doing his best Solid Snake for Renn

I didn't even notice, until I read this, now I can't unhear it.

[Star Reborn]

So we now we know that Elves hunted Titans to harvest Lyrium. As for its purpose we can assume it was either for the pursuit of enhancing their innate magical abilities or even granting themselves magic. Mages are those who have Lryium in their blood.

 

What really strikes me about that quote is the portion that states that the "workers scurry, witless and soulless". Perhaps while the Dwarves served the Titans they lacked sentience and only gained it once they were severed. I would even propose that Sandel may be a Dwarf who was never severed from a Titan, this would explain his inept personality and outstanding capabilities in runes and possibly even magic. He is closer to the true nature of Dwarves than the majority of his kin.

 

Now we just need to connect the how the Fade, Titans, Elven pantheon, the Maker, and the blight are all tied together. There is a connection between them all, but we are still missing pieces.

So normal dwarves are sandal? OK The titans are the "Maker?" version of the dwarves. Are dwarves the true natives of Thedas?

[Star Reborn]

For an Inquisitor, this guy doesn't get the questions answered? This guy sucks at his job.

[jawsisinmywc]

Hey random question, I can't seem to find Codex entries that I pick up from Descent in my Codex. Am I missing something? I must have lore!!

[aerisblight]

For an Inquisitor, this guy doesn't get the questions answered? This guy sucks at his job.

Not only that, but hes stupid as well. Leaving a dwarf with magicbiotic powers in the heart of a Titan? Like that will end well.
My inquisitor shouldve told her; if you dont come with me I am afraid i have to kill you

[Graydaygamer]

Apparently dwarves have diplomatic immunity or something. Someone giving the ultrapowerful red lyrium to Corypheus would have at least stood before me on my throne for judgement, but Biana not only walked off scot free, she threatened me as well. Starting not to like the little bastards.

[connieleeann]

The Nexus Golem knows what's going on..

"The Gauntlet is passed. Only a Shaperate can bring the light. Conversion begins..."

:3

[Star Reborn]

The Nexus Golem knows what's going on..

"The Gauntlet is passed. Only a Shaperate can bring the light. Conversion begins..."

:3

I remember something also said the "Stone lives beneath Orlais".