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[SwobyJ]

Descent is DAI's Omega.

[Leoroc]

Haven't read the thread yet, just gonna vent out all my thoughts first now that I've finished it and then go back and read others.

 

The Good:
The music is incredible, best music of the series by far.

The combats were mostly good, the boss guy was hard as hell, there may be a trick to him, but I went at him with assassin dagger Inq, Cole, Cassandra and Dorian and it was a bit furstrating. The darkspawn were all fun to fight

Nug scene was cute, but a bit out of the tone of the DLC

The loot and items were generally nice.

 

The Bad

Are you FRIGGIN KIDDING ME? Not ONE SINGLE CHOICE in the entire thing! This should have just been a comic book or novel. There's no interaction with anything going on. You're just along for the ride. I thought you would have learned from Golems of Amgarrak.

 

This plays through and feels like a Mass Effect DLC, not a Dragon Age one. Way too linear.

 

Once again, very little with the companions. It is the companions that make the BIoware RPGs, and there really needs to be more focus on them. You brought the VAs back to the studio to record what, six lines each? They need to be involved, like Return to Ostagar or even Mark of the Assassin where each one had a little quest and there was the scene where they searched the prison, and the interesting new character joined you as a companion rather than as a tag-along you forget's there.

 

Overall, I was very disappointed by this. Jaws of Hakkon was superior, but neither hold a candle to Return to Ostagar, Witch Hunt, Citadel. or Mark of the Assassin

 

 

[Jackums]

I finished the DLC last night in a few hours and from a story/lore perspective it was incredibly underwhelming. It felt rushed and unbelievable, too.

 

"I'm fine. I just merged with this mega-lyrium-earth-god-spirit-golem which we still don't know anything about, but we'll describe it with lots of pretty verbiage about purity and holism. But basically, just remember, it's ancient. Yeah, and makes earthquakes. It can shape the earth, but you don't need to worry about that, Inquisitor. Bye."

 

"Sure. *smiles* *tear* Farewell."

 

Um? Just trekked through a multi-level map killing waves of repetitive enemies with little companion banter/dialogue, scraps of lore, and one big incomplete "revelation" that didn't answer any of the questions it created.

 

It was pretty, though.

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

I was planning on picking this up tonight, but then I read the DAI Tools and Mod Manager weren't quite ready for it, and so it might take some time for all the community mods to be made compatible for the DLC, so the DLC would just be sitting on my HD unable to be played until the community adapts to it.

 

After reading some of what people have to say about the DLC, I still want to pick it up.  Some parts have me even more excited to experience, but it's also $14.99 and that seems a bit high, so I am going to wait til the DLC goes on sale like JoH and the modding community adjusts for the DLC.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Here are my thoughts on the lore revelations in the DLC. Holy wall of text Batman !

 

1) I do not think that the magic Shaper Valta seemed to cast was magic that is derived from the fade or blood or blight like what an Elf or Human or Qunari or Darkspawn uses. It is my opinion that what Valta did was to draw upon the power of the Lyrium and the Titans. Think of it as a Dungeons and Dragons Cleric casting spells by drawing on the power of a particular god or goddess. As such, even though it opens the possibility of playing as a Dwarf mage, we would probably be only playing as someone with a strong stone sense, such as another Shaper and would probably only involve buffs and stone spells like Shale. Remember in Dragon Age Origins how Shale had an entire tree devoted to buffs whose abilities are blue in color ?

 

2) I think that the Titans are like giant earth walking creatures that supported Thedas and shaped it. They had Lyrium for blood and inside these large creatures, we had Dwarves who lived in the Titans, drinking Lyrium and living their lives. Because of this, some of the Dwarves or many of them became like the Sha-Brytol, immortal but soulless, just living to protect the Titan and to drink Lyrium. I also think that the Ancient Elves hunted the Titans for its Lyrium and to free the Dwarves who lived in it.

 

There is a Codex in the Arbor Wilds: http://dragonage.wik...d_Elven_Writing . Here are its contents:

 

There are whispers from the Well of Sorrows.  It's impossible to understand the entire text, but certain parts suddenly reveal a shadow of their original meaning.

 

"In this place we prepare to hunt the pillars of the earth. Their workers scurry, witless, soulless. This death will be a mercy. We will make the earth blossom with their passing."

 

For one moment there is a vivid image of two overlapping spheres; unknown flowers bloom inside their centers. Then it fades.

 

So you see that the Titans are linked to the Ancient Elves. This leads me to believe that sites such as Temple of Sacred Ashes, which was a huge Lyrium deposit, was in fact a place where the Ancient Elves slew a Titan and its blood, Lyrium, spilled around and "bloomed the earth." Then they built some building over it and we know this because we see the Temple of Sacred Ashes having a symbol of Mythal at its foundations. Parts of it was probably destroyed and later Humans came along and built the Temple of Sacred Ashes there. The Warden stumbles on it years later and Oghren remarks how the Temple has a high concentration of Lyrium deposits. Later, Corypheus comes along and tries to use Blight Magic to unlock Fen'Harel's orb which caused the explosion of the Conclave and the corruption of the Lyrium deposits. Or corruption of the Titan's blood.

 

This could also be why Solas has very little to say about what happened in the Descent DLC. He once mentioned to Varric in a banter : "Dwarves are the severed arm of a once mighty hero, lying in a pool of blood. Undirected. Whatever skill of arms it had, gone forever. Although it might twitch to give the appearance of life, it will never dream." So The Egg knows about the Titans and knows that his brethren hunted them in the past. More importantly, he could not say any of this without giving his identity away because Dwarves do not dream so he can't use the "In the Fade" excuses. You could see though that he was very eager to investigate what was going on with the earthquakes. Perhaps too eager ?

 

3) The third thing we have is how Compulsion seems to be a really big theme in Dragon Age. Darkspawn and compelled by the power of the Taint to seek out Old Gods and corrupt them into Archdemons. Ancient Elves who were branded or marked with a geas or with lyrium tattoos were compelled to serve their masters. If you recall, Fenris mentions that he killed the Fog Warriors whom he lived with just because his master said so. The Qunari hear something in the High Dragons and without strict upbringing, become very violent. Corypheus is compelled to search for the Black City and enter it at all cost. Now we have Dwarves who can hear the singing of the Stone and who are compelled to serve the Titans in some way once they drank Lyrium, which is the Titans blood. 

 

The fact that Dwarves are compelled somehow, either willingly or against their will to work for the Titans if they get exposed to the Lyrium is fascinating. On the one hand, it might be that the Sha-Brytol drank the Lyrium to sustain themselves or because it was like a drug to them and in return, they are compelled to defend the Titan against anyone, even to the point of killing other Dwarves. Rest in peace, Renn. On the other hand, we have someone like Shaper Valta who gets affected by pure Lyrium, survives it and still retains her sanity.

 

I think what we are seeing here is parallel to what you see in Humans. Only some Humans can be mages, not all. Accordingly, I think that only some Dwarves can be magical and can draw power from pure Lyrium and the Titians. Not all of them can. Shaper Valta is one such person. Sandal is perhaps someone who got exposed to too much pure Lyrium by a Titan ? Or perhaps the Old God soul thing is more suitable for him ? This leads me to believe that the records on the existence of the Titans were deliberately erased by someone from Orzammar's Memories. This is because only a few can truly draw power from the Titan and the rest who do so become soulless and witless, slaves to the Titans' will.

 

4) This is the second time in recorded history that the Titans were agitated and were awakened. We have the one right now, due to the Breach. Before this, I think they were agitated, awakened and wrecked a few Lyrium mines because the ancient Tevinter magisters breached the Fade and screwed up big time. Somehow the Titans and the Fade are linked. Perhaps the Titans with its Lyrium blood draws its power from the Fade and the Dwarves draw their power from the Titans, typically by consuming pure Lyrium. In this sense, perhaps the Titans are intermediaries that allow Dwarves to perform magic.

 

Does this mean the Red Lyrium we see comes from a corrupted Titan ? A Titan perhaps corrupted by the ancient magisters or by Andruil and her Void shenangians or by the Forgotten Ones who live in the Void ? A Blighted Titan. I sure don't want to meet those any time soon.

 

5) Notice that the Titan only marked Valta as their children. It did not pick anyone else. Varric was not chosen. Cadash was not chosen. Only Valta was. Perhaps this is due to her strong stone sense or perhaps there is a hierarchy of stone sense which translate to a hierarchy of how the Dwarves were linked to the Titans. Could this be the foundation of the Dwarven caste system in ancient times ? The most noble castes are the ones who are most connected to the Titans and were not driven insane whereas the Casteless were the ones who the Titans do not identify as their children.

 

6) The DLC gave too much of  Legacy vibes. Is it just me or is Bioware setting up Valta and the Titans to be the antagonists in Dragon Age 4 ? We know from dialogue that Valta has her disagreements with Dwarven society. We know her life was negatively impacted because of it. We also saw her behaving very strangely after being struck by pure Lyrium blast.

 

That's all I got for now.

[Thane4Ever]

I'm glad they confirmed this wasn't the final DLC - I was able to enjoy it a lot more. A fun dungeon crawler with some interesting dwarven lore. The music was fantastic. I hope they are listening to fan feedback, so many are desperate for more companion interaction. I agree with the other comments, it's what makes Bioware games. I need a Citadel style DLC before they are finished with Inquisition.

[BSpud]

I won't be able to play this for a long time (PS3 LOL) but the Titan and lyrium lore revelations sound kind of Michael Kirkbride/Elder Scrolls: Morrowind-y. I especially got major Heart of Lorkhan flashbacks from that guardian heart thing.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

As for Valta, I think we will hear from her again, but in what capacity is hard to say. If you go to the expedition table after the final battle, the final new expedition mission says that the soldiers and legionnaires heard a cry coming from far inside the Deep Roads and it sounded like no darkspawn or beast they had ever heard before, and they worried it was from Valta and she needed help. You then send troops down to investigate but the path to the Wellspring has been seamlessly covered by rock that they couldn't damage with their picks, and Renn's body had been dug up and was missing.

 

I was very psyched to read those dwarven texts from before the First Blight. They hinted at the darkspawn's origins even more, gave a story from one of the first encounters the dwarves have with them, and teased with an old encounter with a probable magister (a female magister, maybe Razikale's?).

[Reznore57]

So I guess it explains the Profane and part of the Lost Thaig?

 

We who are forgotten, remember,
We clawed at rock until our fingers bled,
We cried out for justice, but were unheard.
Our children wept in hunger,
And so we feasted upon the gods.
Here we wait, in aeons of silence.
We few, we profane.

 

They were eating lyrium , so I guess those dwarves "ate" their Titans and knew about it?

 

And the whispers in red lyrium codex from here lies the Abyss:

We are here

We have waited

We have slept

We are sundered

We are crippled

We are polluted

We endure

We wait

We have found the dreams again

We will awaken

 

I suppose this is the Titans , well those corrupted by the Blight anyway.

 

It seems the elves may have done something bad to the dwarves ?

With the whole attacking the pillars of the earth stuff , and in the Primeval Thaig , there were trace of elven influence.

Some elven loots here and there and well the Red Lyrium Idol.

Also this staff :

 

Spoiler

In the ancient days before the darkspawn, when dwarven cities wound through the roots of all the earth, House Valdasine single-handedly kept the empire supplied with lyrium.

One day the mining family shut the doors of their thaig. They spoke not to their noble patrons, nor their king, and not even a visiting Paragon. Days passed in silence before the doors to Valdasine Thaig opened. Anxious partners discovered it empty. Not one soul remained—no bodies and no sign of what had happened.

House Valdasine only left a staff of strange metal behind. It looked like lyrium and chilled one's heart like a remembered sorrow. The king sealed the staff inside the thaig, and no dwarf ever ventured there again.

—As recounted by Shaper Merta

 

Let's say anywhere where there's a lot of lyrium veins , well chances are you're into a titan or what's left of it.

The Primeval Thaig was obviously corrupted , sealed and deserted.

And with the link above there's a story about I guess a staff of red lyrium corrupting a whole thaig.If the dwarves back then drank the Lyrium (like in the DLC) and it was turning into red lyrium...well I imagine the dwarves would end up like the red templar , turning into mad piece of rocks : also knows as rock wraith.

 

The thing is ...I really can't imagine why the elves would corrupt a Titan like this ?

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

Cause elves are/were big jerks?  :-)

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Cause elves are/were big jerks?  :-)

 

When we speak of Ancient Elves, one must always remember there are 3 main factions in them. One is the Elvhen Pantheon, the other is the Forgotten Ones and the third are the Commoners. It is my suspicion that whatever tainted the Titans or the Dwarves must come from the Elves who reside in the Void, the Forgotten Ones.

 

What's more, we do not know where the Taint actually comes from. The most likely source is from the Forgotten Ones because they are the gods of pestilence, disease and what have you.

[Jewlie Ghoulie]

My opinion is very simple

Spoiler

LYRIUM GUNS BAHAHAHA

I think I'll have to replay it but I was underwhelmed by a lot. Then again, I was feeling very sick while trying to play it so i think a lot of it I wasn't really focused on sadly. But, Liked the lore as a dwarf fan. I feel wary about the difficulty for those who didn't like JOH difficulty (JOH was much easier IMO) .

[Enansal]

When we speak of Ancient Elves, one must always remember there are 3 main factions in them. One is the Elvhen Pantheon, the other is the Forgotten Ones and the third are the Commoners. It is my suspicion that whatever tainted the Titans or the Dwarves must come from the Elves who reside in the Void, the Forgotten Ones.

 

What's more, we do not know where the Taint actually comes from. The most likely source is from the Forgotten Ones because they are the gods of pestilence, disease and what have you.

 

I wonder if Malvernis was one of the Forgotten Ones? Those Legacy DLC codices suggest it was feeding of, and poisoning what it came into contact with. Maybe it tainted and corrupted a titan? (An explanation for all the red lyrium veins in the Primeval thaig - it's in a corrupted titan?)

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

In reference to Habits:

 

When we speak of Ancient Elves, one must always remember there are 3 main factions in them. One is the Elvhen Pantheon, the other is the Forgotten Ones and the third are the Commoners. It is my suspicion that whatever tainted the Titans or the Dwarves must come from the Elves who reside in the Void, the Forgotten Ones.

 

 

Probably, but honestly speaking, I would much prefer a more refreshing take on the Elves that deconstructs them from the typical Tolkien tropes of glorious, wise, and advanced beings to be more like the Melnibonéans of Michael Moorcock's setting; decadent, cruel, highly intelligent to the point of 'blue and orange morality', and otherwise the indirect/direct cause of the descent and decline of the known world.

 

It's just I am sick and tired of the light-filled sidhe-like beings that have overtaken fantasy literature.  It's why I much prefer human-dominated settings and fiction; because the idea of everything good coming from before, from a glorious race that is older and wiser, one that presided over a Golden Age of peace and prosperity, it's sickening and smacks of the kind of delirious blind faith that a fallen civilization would ascribe to make-believe muppets and magical carp. 

 

So in reference to your example of the three factions of ancient Elvhen civilization, I would rather see them grouped like "Bad" (Commoners), "Considerable Worse" (Pantheon), and "OMAGAWD Horrible!" (Forgotten Ones). 

 

I would however accept a twist of having the Forgotten Ones be more egalitarian and 'sympathetic' to modern Thedas, much in the same way that Solas can be regarded in such filter.  Maybe it's a breaking of monarchists versus egalitarians, law and tradition versus evolution, order versus chaos, Vorlons versus Shadows... 

[Roamingmachine]

In reference to Habits:

 

Probably, but honestly speaking, I would much prefer a more refreshing take on the Elves that deconstructs them from the typical Tolkien tropes of glorious, wise, and advanced beings to be more like the Melnibonéans of Michael Moorcock's setting; decadent, cruel, highly intelligent to the point of 'blue and orange morality', and otherwise the indirect/direct cause of the descent and decline of the known world.

 

It's just I am sick and tired of the light-filled sidhe-like beings that have overtaken fantasy literature.  It's why I much prefer human-dominated settings and fiction; because the idea of everything good coming from before, from a glorious race that is older and wiser, one that presided over a Golden Age of peace and prosperity, it's sickening and smacks of the kind of delirious blind faith that a fallen civilization would ascribe to make-believe muppets and magical carp. 

 

So in reference to your example of the three factions of ancient Elvhen civilization, I would rather see them grouped like "Bad" (Commoners), "Considerable Worse" (Pantheon), and "OMAGAWD Horrible!" (Forgotten Ones). 

 

I would however accept a twist of having the Forgotten Ones be more egalitarian and 'sympathetic' to modern Thedas, much in the same way that Solas can be regarded in such filter.  Maybe it's a breaking of monarchists versus egalitarians, law and tradition versus evolution, order versus chaos, Vorlons versus Shadows... 

 

 

Erm, Tolkien elves did enable pretty much every calamity faced by middle earth. They also had also all sorts of kinslayings, civil wars and political backstabbing going on.  Silmarillion and Book of Unfinished Tales are an enlightening read. They just look like the wisest being ever by the time of LOTR because they remember every screw up they have ever made (which is to say every possible way a people can mess up) . Comes with being ageless.  I've never seen the 'perfect being' elves you describe in any fantasy series.

 

With that out of the way, carry on.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Erm, Tolkien elves did enable pretty much every calamity faced by middle earth. They also had also all sorts of kinslayings, civil wars and political backstabbing going on.  Silmarillion and Book of Unfinished Tales are an enlightening read. They just look like the wisest being ever by the time of LOTR because they remember every screw up they have ever made (which is to say every possible way a people can mess up) . Comes with being ageless.  I've never seen the 'perfect being' elves you describe in any fantasy series.

 

With that out of the way, carry on.

 

This. Elves in pretty much all fantasy world seem wise because they have already f**ked up badly beforehand.

 

In some settings like LoTR, the Elves remember that they screwed up and no longer try to interfere with world affairs.

 

In other settings like Elder Scrolls, they are too disparate to unite and rule over the humans.

 

In Dragon Age, most of the Elves have forgotten how much they f**ked up. Notice we have Abelas and the Sentinels, who know how much damage they did and in turn, prefer to keep to themselves and only appear to defend their living space.

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

Erm, Tolkien elves did enable pretty much every calamity faced by middle earth. They also had also all sorts of kinslayings, civil wars and political backstabbing going on.  Silmarillion and Book of Unfinished Tales are an enlightening read. They just look like the wisest being ever by the time of LOTR because they remember every screw up they have ever made (which is to say every possible way a people can mess up) . Comes with being ageless.  I've never seen the 'perfect being' elves you describe in any fantasy series.

 

With that out of the way, carry on.

Well you do have a point in that the Simarillion and other expanded writings did show that side to the elves, but the trouble is manyfold in that it takes a Biblical style of narration, detailing everything in past tense as having happened and using it as object lessons in the style of the lays; and in that the truly flawed and 'evil' characters were few and far between, Maeglin, Feanor and arguably his sons, and... that's pretty much it.  Everyone else was kind of just along for the ride. 

 

Ultimately the problem is that despite their 'journey' presented in Tolkien's appendices and side-works, the elves are still a 'perfect race' and utilized as a 'savior-race' example for the rest of Middle Earth, being too close to Illuvatar's grace to stay with the flawed mortal races, for example.

 

This image has set an indelible impression in modern fantasy which steered it away from the darker roots of flawed heroes of myth and legend prior to WWII, such as the works of Robert E. Howard and Clark Ashton Smith.  It's also hard to avoid the Christian "Sin/Grace" influence of both Tolkien and C.S Lewis upon post-war fantasy.  So I would really argue that the stereotype has been established, however much it glosses over the in-depth expanded writings that you justifiably reference, and as such it's better for Dragon Age as a developing universe to avoid the same tropes and traps, and 'break tradition' to illustrate elves as being very different.

[OdanUrr]

Descent is DAI's Omega.

 

Interesting. My brother compared it to Leviathan instead.

[Nixou]

I would much prefer [...] the Elves [...] to be more like the Melnibonéans of Michael Moorcock's setting; decadent, cruel, highly intelligent to the point of 'blue and orange morality', and otherwise the indirect/direct cause of the descent and decline of the known world.

 

 

Well, the more we learn about ancient Elvhenan, the more similar to Melniboné it looks. Which would make Solas the Elric of Thedas, I suppose (and therefore the Inquisitor is Moonglum... hey I was right to make him a redhead after all   ).

[Call Me Jord]

Interesting. My brother compared it to Leviathan instead.

 

I associate it with Leviathan as well. Not to mention they both share the core aspect about solving a great mystery.

 

I expect the next piece of SP DLC to associate with Omega, then the last with Citadel. Well, perhaps with a bit of a darker feel to it.

[Swaggerjking]

I think the most interesting thing is that Orseck Garul was named dropped in this dlc I wonder if the Titians had something to do with shifting the capital from Kal Sharok to where it is now I would love a book about my man Orseck I wonder if half the reason the dwarves became friends with tevinter is
because of the elves attacking the Titians

Also I would of been so happy if this was the invasion of the snake kings or moon men mentioned in JoH

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

I think the most interesting thing is that Orseck Garul was named dropped in this dlc I wonder if the Titians had something to do with shifting the capital from Kal Sharok to where it is now I would love a book about my man Orseck I wonder if half the reason the dwarves became friends with tevinter is because of the elves attacking the Titians

Nice catch... it'd be fitting indeed if that were so.  DAI has demonstrated that the elves have thus far been proven to be the aggressors in almost all of the major conflicts their history remembers them as 'victims' in.

 

Well, the more we learn about ancient Elvhenan, the more similar to Melniboné it looks. Which would make Solas the Elric of Thedas, I suppose (and therefore the Inquisitor is Moonglum... hey I was right to make him a redhead after all   ).

Yeah, the more I think about, the more I am satisfied that the Devs seem to be thinking along the same lines as I was musing.  Elves are the 'evil empire'.  :-)

[Swaggerjking]

I am kinda wondering if the dwarven Kings or the head of the shaperate have a big book of secrets a kin to the President book of secrets that has all the major events struck from their history

Also I am wondering whether tevinter knew about them if so I would guess that would be a great help to someone trying to enter the fade and maybe them going in there tainted it's lyrium turning it red

Maybe the taint is more of a curse or some kinda nature balancing/cost of doing something terribly wrong/evil

Maybe the elves tried to do something with a titan in Arlathan/ Golden City and it corrupted the place causing it to become tainted

[Swaggerjking]

What if the main population of dwarves became cut off from the stone/titan and were unable to cast because they let Arelathan or the golden City fall to the elves and Those places are or was in the strongest titan
So they were punished for letting it fall for those who aren't the protectors and cut them off magic