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#176
Ballax

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Spoilers to anyone who hasn't finished the DLC

 

I played through the DLC and unlike some I utterly love it I'm always a **** for lore as such I present a few theories:

 

The Sha-Brytol are ever living dwarves, bound into their armour with lyrium. Not dissimilar from a golem. What if Caradin had not discovered how to make golems but rediscovered how to make a revered defender? Consider also the Sha-Brytol's slavish obedience to the titan perhaps a golem control rod uses the same sort of effect.

 

When we were at the wayspring we were actually in the 'Fade' or not exactly the fade but an area where the veil separating the fade and the real world never formed. I say this because...well look at the place. There were clouds and a light like the miday sun coming from nowhere, giant stalagmites and stalactites jutted from the floor and the ceiling, and before that a glowing, singing valley of vein-shaped Lyrium, clearly these are not areas that behave like the majority of the natural world. A Titan then is not so much a lifeform as we know it so much as a sentient location. Perhaps that is why Valta was able to harness magic, she was struck with lyrium in a spot where the fade and the real world intersected which leads me to my next theory.

 

In the Arbor Wilds Morrigan will talk to you about a time where beings of great power walked the earth, According to one of the comics Qunari myth tells of a time when the fade intersected, they believe this is where the Old Gods of Tevinter came from. Long ago Titans roamed the surface fusing the the real world and the fade as one to increase their power, to reproduce or simply because it's what a Titan does. I believe that during this time Humans Elves and Qunari where exposed to Lyrium just like Valta whilst the majority of dwarves hid deep underground (hence their hatered and mistrust of the surfacers). Perhaps they always lived like that, perhaps this is where the deep roads came from, a series of bunkers built to survive a disaster that lasted for so long that the dwarves began to forget they lived anywhere else. 

 

I noticed that in Crestwood there were veilfire sconces on the walls, at the time I thought perhaps the old dwarves simply hired mages for whatever reason but now I wonder....the Crestwood ruins don't seem to be an actual Thaig (they're never named as one anyway) and they're unusually close to the surface,  perhaps the Crestwood Dwarves were touched by the Titans and became the Forerunners of the Sha Brytol and their mages worked with something akin to veilfire. After all the runes there still sing.....

 

Eventually the Titans were defeated, and I believe that defeat involved the Dwarves of the primeval Thaig and Red Lyrium is a rampant WMD meant to poison the 'blood' of the titans.With most of the Titans dead the Sha-Brytol fought their own brothers through the newly constructed deep roads and down to the depths of the earth and took the last of the Titans with them, hence their hatred of mainstream dwarves--as far as they're concerned the Thaig-Dwarves killed their gods.


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#177
rapscallioness

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So mother earth in the elven tale about Elgarnan was a Titan? Interesting. I wonder if that means his father the sun is a real creature or if the sun represented Arlathan and it's excessive use of lyrium and near destruction of the earth/Titans because of it? Probably Arlathan.

Really enjoyed the dlc, though I would recommend people be at a pretty high level (about the same level as JoH) before playing.

I wonder if we will get to see the Scaled Ones in the next dlc, or will the devs make us wait for DA4? I'm dying to see one of those snake kings up close. So far all we have to go by is this pic...
166x8go.jpg

 

oh my goodness. this guy. wth?

 

So, it seems something fairly traumatic happened abt 1,000 years ago. I'll have to dust off my WoT books and check some timelines. It also seems each culture has some vague memory of these things albeit each with their own spin. It seems all were cut off in some way from their true power and origins.

 

I wonder if the current Darkspawn are a devolved, "corrupted" version of these Snake Kings. I believe it was Tevinter that said the Darkspawn were always there.

 

...but then even the human tribes came to Thedas because they were running from something. I think it was the Lady of the Skies? Not certain, and not certain what time period that was. The humans, though, seemed to have brought something with them because that's when the whispering "gods" started...doing their thing. Then lured the humans into the golden/black city, but it was a Trap! lol.

 

Rather, it could be they were lured into opening a type of portal that allowed these creatures to enter Thedas-for whatver reason. Although, it may have had nothing to do with their sin corrupting the Golden city. Rather it was always black, like Cory alluded to....

 

Geez, idk. There seems to be some kind of collective repressed memory there. The only way of getting to it would be to gather all the stories from the races, put them together and look for the main thread beneath the spin.


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#178
TarotFox

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The Alamarri that crossed into modern-Ferelden were said to be fleeing a "shadow goddess" of some sort.


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#179
frankf43

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So lyrium is Titan blood? Called it!

This fits well with the theory that the passage in the Temple of Mythal about hunting the Earthmovers in order to make the Earth bloom is referring to Elvhes hunting Titans (and their soulless dwarven minions) to make lyrium come from the Earth...also strengthens my theory that the giant pure mounds of lyrium that Elvhen temples were built on might be Titan corpses.

Hmm I need to scour this new Titan lore ASAP. A shame that I have DAI on PS3 >.>.

If you just want the lore there are let's plays out there already. 



#180
Hellion Rex

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One thing, I couldn't figure out. What the hell was that guy talking about in his journal? It sounded like he was either trying to seal or release some kind of entity.



#181
rapscallioness

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Got this from the DA wikia. It's a bit of codex found during the JoH dlc while doing the Bear quest:

 

"Secret Prisoners of Tevinter

 

Long ago, this would have been under the water, until Tevinter drained much of Swamp Kuldsdotten to build this prison. Why make a jail so remote? For Prisoners they wished to Hide. Tevinter has Made War on Orlais many times, but I now believe there is also Secret War between them that the Common People are not allowed to see. This prison is a Remainder of this Secret War that continues in our time.

I speak of Orlais' attempts to rouse the Snake Kings of the Earth against Tevinter's alliance with the Moon Men.

This is explained in Ser Ycke's Pamphlets, of which I have read many, which explain things such as why the snake appears in Tevinter drawings, and how the Snake-Kings came to exist. (Crystals.) Did Moon Men have their Tevinter Allies keep the Reptilian Ones here, so they could interrogate them at their Leisure? None can say, but I will say yes.."

 

lol! Idk what's going on.


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#182
Dancing_Dolphin

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*Orlais* is the one who allied with the snake kings? I assumed they allied with Tevinter because whenever I think of snakes I think of the vints...that is *very* interesting. Certainly clears up some questions I had regarding Viv.

#183
theacefes

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*Orlais* is the one who allied with the snake kings? I assumed they allied with Tevinter because whenever I think of snakes I think of the vints...that is *very* interesting. Certainly clears up some questions I had regarding Viv.

 

Especially if she becomes Divine and you look at her tarot card post game. :)


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#184
dragondreamer

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I have a lot of thoughts, all over the place.  :D

 

I enjoyed this way, way, way more than I thought I would.  (And I expected to enjoy it a lot.)  It was a bit of a bait and switch, with the first part being mostly about the Darkspawn, and then suddenly it's the dwarven version of the Temple of Mythal.  So many massive lore bombs, and I haven't even finished all the side exploration yet.  Also felt very Legacy-y at the end there...  Valta doesn't seem like the villian type, but then neither does Solas.  Her letters at the end suggest she's losing touch with reality a bit, like in the Fade, she's losing her sense of time.  (Varric also seems to think it will end badly, and he does have experience with that.)

 

But dwarven mages! :wizard:   Maybe Sandal just wandered too far from the Sha-Brytol when he was a kid.  Would explain a lot.

 

I'm also going to have to take another look at Helsdim's stuff from JoH, I mostly wrote off his codexes as conspiracy theory parody, but after the "scaled ones" codexes...   Snake Kings of the Earth!  I also wonder if they're the Fex.  I thought I read somewhere that they were reptilian, but I've never been able to find where I read it.  The only thing is that the Fex supposedly live around Par Vollen, which is far off from the underground.  I'd also think a subterranean race would have Darkspawn offshoots around.  Hmm. 

 

Seems likely now that the Titans were the "pillars of the earth" the ancient elves were hunting...  That cave with the Arcane Horror jumped out at me, it's way down there, full of elven things, the triple sphere symbol, the beheaded Mythal statue, and a broken eluvian the most notable among them.  So I assumed the Arcane Horror was once an elven mage.  But how long ago was he down there, and why?

 

After the "guardian" reveal, I suppose the red lyrium rock wraith from DA2 was a guardian of a blighted Titan sealed away until Hawke and friends dug into it.

 

I got the impression that the dwarves were originally part of a hive consciousness with the Titans, and probably served as extensions of its will, or like cells in an organism.  Killing or maiming the Titan probably granted them more individuality, at the cost of greater abilities (magic).  "Stone-sense" seems to be a lingering vestige of the old link, that gets severed completely if dwarves leave the underground, leaving the "body/Stone".  Valta was already very Stone sensitive, so the link was that much stronger when she got reconnected.  Like a very powerful mage is particularly sensitive to the Fade.

 

I got a sense of familiarity with what happens to an Inquisitor that drinks from the Well of Sorrows.  They're bound to Mythal's will in exchange for knowledge.  Perhaps the loss of the elven gods resulted in a similar loss for the elves (loss of immortality and magic, etc.)

 

The first encounter with the Sha-Brytol was incredibly well-done, I loved the build-up with the eyes and the darting figures.  There were a lot of small and not small touches that reminded me strongly of the Deep Roads in Origins.

 

Dwarves with lyrium guns was a "whoa" moment. 

 

New crafting materials shop, whoo! :D

 

When I saw the lyrium staff design, my first thought was, "this would look great on a dwarven mage, if there were any."  Weeeeellllllllll.... :P   (Dagna is going to try to rip open the Deep Roads if she ever finds out.)

 

I also wonder if Renn copied Leliana's Temple of Sacred Ashes trick (that I've heard about, I've never actually killed her), there was certainly enough lyrium...

 

We are, of course, left with more questions, like what are the other secrets the Sha-Brytol are implied to be hiding? 

 

We know (kinda sorta) what the Stone is now, but what about the Stone that lives beneath Orlais?  Is there something significant about that one in particular?  Is that going to tie into whatever Solas is doing?  (If Solas is trying to gather power for whatever he's doing, he might try to tap into an old source like the ancient elves once did.)  When he rises, everyone will see?  (Sounds big.)

 

If lyrium is Titan blood, why is the blood of Great Dragons considered the blood of the world? 

 

And on and on...  Geez, if this was "just a dungeon crawl", what's coming in the big last DLC? :ph34r:   So far we've gotten lorebombs for elves, humans, and dwarves...  Only Qunari left to go.  (Maybe Koslun will time travel and tell them how much they messed up what he was trying to teach them. :P  )


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#185
Bayonet Hipshot

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This bring into question the mythology of the Avvar and their God Korth:

 

"Also known as the Father of the Skies, Korth is the eldest and strongest god and everything found in the mountains stems from him. The Avvars believe all caves were carved by the Mountain-Father to shelter them, and that dwarves are also his creation as they live within his realm, deep underground."

 

The above is from the dragon age wikia article on Korth and the codex entries for the Avvar gods. We may be able to correlate that Korth is/was a Titan, and as we've discovered in JoH the Avvar gods/spirits can possess entities. What if Korth is a powerful spirit of a Titan and humanity has in some fashion descended from dwarves entirely?

 

It's really starting to feel like everything sincerely is connected.

 

I also have another really crazy theory. What if the tainted Titan lies under Kirkwall ? We saw the Primeval Thaig there. The Thaig was deep and yet it had Golems as well as Fade creatures and the Red Lyrium idol.


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#186
MisterJB

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The Titan is...something and we are inside it.

The Sha-Brytol drink lyrium and that turned them into...something.

Lyrium is, again...something.

The Breach awoke the Titan because...and it was doing...something.

To be Pure is...something.

And Valta is now...something as well.

 

Could we please get some straight answers for once.

 

 

Also, he knooooooooows.

 

"You can't be taller, not without the Titans."

 

c9fc6ef3734896ef4646326087be93f9.png

 

Tell us your secrets, child!

 

 


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#187
FinalGirl

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I hope that going forward, BW finds the balance between "interesting and lore-heavy with a rich history" and "accessibility". I finished The Descent and I "got" it (or as much as you can when it raises so many questions), but reading the thread I see how it ties to other histories and codices I'm in the dark about. Which is fine, I love the lore and this has me wanting to do some reading, but in-game explanations and dialogue from characters should supplement the lore in case you miss some codex entries.

 

I was disappointed that after reading the journal page–or letter, really–from Valta we couldn't go in search of the Sha-Brytol thaig she mentioned in that "hint hint go check this out, Inquisitor" way. Maybe in the future?

 

I thought I'd exhausted everything, but maybe not...I've still got gears but I haven't found doors for them, and while I found the Nug King's cheese I haven't done anything with it.



#188
Bayonet Hipshot

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When going through the gates that required gears and special carvings, the notes on them implied the carver sacrificed his child to be able to do it. And one of the mugs we find is from Bodahn.

 

Maybe the carver's son who was sacrificed is Sandal?


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#189
Dancing_Dolphin

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When going through the gates that required gears and special carvings, the notes on them implied the carver sacrificed his child to be able to do it. And one of the mugs we find is from Bodahn.

Maybe the carver's son who was sacrificed is Sandal?

Sandal was the first person I thought of as well. Poor sweet Sandal.

#190
renfrees

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Moon men, snake men? What's next - pink unicorns in alliance with the elves?


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#191
yoomazir

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Finally beat it, took my time and exlpored everything, took me around 9-10 hours in normal difficulty.

Overall I liked it, nice decors, 2 cool npcs, cool new enemies (loved those "rifles"), they got it right with the pace, now that ending... Bioware plz.

 

It was a fun B-rated content.



#192
Swaggerjking

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Okay something that really bothered me was that sha-brytol means revered defender but there's a class with that is Sha-Brytol Revered Defender so their name is just Revered Drfender *2 But other than that I hope the snake kings are real and can become a playable

#193
Fearsome1

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But dwarven mages! :wizard:   Maybe Sandal just wandered too far from the Sha-Brytol when he was a kid.  Would explain a lot.

 

Who knows, but this just might be some indication about his "enchanting" origins?


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#194
Hudathan

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It's on par with most Bioware DLC's, a little on the short side but adds interesting context to the lore. By now we should all know what to expect and whether or not we want to spend money to get them.



#195
Nixou

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pink unicorns in alliance with the elves?

 

 

 

And you get to have a sex scene on one's back.


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#196
Leoroc

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I'm curious as to why there were so many grey Qunari weapons in random vases down in the deep roads =p


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#197
MisterJB

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Remember when Solas describes dwarves as the severed arm of a migthy hero?

What if something severed the dwarves from the Titan and thus from Lyrium and thus from the Fade?

What if what happened was Valta was reconnected and can now dream?


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#198
MisterJB

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k318oo.jpg

 

Kieran, tell me of the Titans. What do you know about them?

What about the elven gods? What is their connection to the Blight?

Talk to me, kid!

I'll just stare awkwardly at you until you do.

 


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#199
Bfler

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Finished it a few minutes ago. It's a funny DLC with some good moments. The only unfitting thing are the dwarfs with the plasma rifles. 



#200
Darth Vitrial

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One thing that jumped out at me that hasn't been mentioned: "The Sigil". From what I could tell, whoever built those gates built them because they were in the Fade (if they were a dwarf, how did they get into the Fade?) and saw that the Deep Roads, or at least this one section of it, created the "Sigil", some sort of magical rune, and they created the gates to somehow "disrupt" the Sigil. That made me think of the Enigma of Kirkwall, that Kirkwall was a giant Blood Magic rune as well. And the Primeval Thaig was below Kirkwall... It also seems that the Gates were made using blood magic sacrifices, and it's mentioned that the gears aren't made of any known metal. And I'm really curious about that Arcane Horror... Also, people keep mentioning mail from Valta? I completed the story, did that "cry in the dark" expedition, but as far as I can tell I haven't gotten any new Codexes...do I have to wait or something?