33 réponses à ce sujet

[MagicalMaster]

Look, I think one of the key issues that the crit chain passives suffer from is that they were probably designed in context for the Single Player, where you don't have the option of (potentially) continuously incrementing your Cunning to get higher and higher base crit% chances.

 

The point of this thread was that even at 5% base crit with no bonuses at all from anything it's still terrible.  In Bioware's itemization, 1% crit = 1% attack = 1% armor pen = 1 strength = 1 constitution and so forth.  So if you have a skill that's considered insanely weak (9 stat points) and it's significantly better in that regard than a Crit Chain talent...something is terribly wrong.

 

How about building it around Crit Damage instead? For example, right off the top of my head:

- Every critical hit that you inflict increases your crit damage by 20%, up to a 100% crit damage bonus. Upon inflicting a critical hit at the maximum bonus, it gets reset and you build up the crit damage bonus again.

 

That should provide additional synergy for those classes with other crit chance passives, and remain useful as you rack up more rogue promotions.

 

That would be equivalent to 60% more critical damage overall.  Not sure that would be the best idea -- yes, Isabela does have a talent that gives her 50% more critical damage plus more at long range...but she's also a rogue who has Dexterity and thus already has higher crit damage (meaning the bonus is worth less relatively speaking).

 

It also doesn't seem to really build "up" to something obvious.

 

If it was to redesigned around crit damage, then doing something like 10% more critical damage per crit for 10 seconds would make more sense.  But that has the potential to be nigh worthless for new players and insanely overpowered for high end players (could easily see that ramping up to 100%+ more critical damage constantly).  Maybe cap the stacks or something, that would potentially work.

 

2) It scales negatively with character levels, gear, and promotions. The more you play the game, the worse this (already underwhelming) passive gets. That doesn't make any sense.

 

It's not unique in that regard, though.  Auto crit from stealth has the same problem.  Flank attack has the same problem.  Anything that gives critical chance, really, has the same problem.

 

Affects other stuff too -- even the stat passives become less valuable as you have more stats and all.  Going from 0 to 10% attack is a larger relative increase than 100% to 110% attack.  So I'm not even so annoyed that it scales negatively...I think the larger problems are that it sucks even to start and scales negatively to such a large degree.

 

However, when crit is increased by 10% the bonus of 6.32% vs 15.58% is huge. Had this change been implemented and I not already worked hard to get a better crit chance I would of mathematically found the sweet spot to capitalize on this change and stop promoting my rogues. I would look at the Reaver and try to figure out what is a sweet spot in cunning that benifit both her and my rogues, that is what you are not understanding.

 

Again, you're not understanding how this works.

 

Right now, in the live game, a new player has 5% crit.  If they pick up the talent their overall crit chance becomes 11.32% overall.

Right now, in the live game, a more veteran player has 15% crit.  If they pick up the talent their overall crit chance becomes 18.76% overall.

Right now, in the live game, a high end player has 30% crit.  If they pick up the talent their overall crit chance becomes 31.99% overall.

 

And so on.  You never LOSE crit overall from taking the talent.

 

If we upped the bonus to 10%, a new player has 5% crit.  If they pick up the talent their overall crit chance becomes 20.58% overall.

If we upped the bonus to 10%,a more veteran player has 15% crit.  If they pick up the talent their overall crit chance becomes 26.42% overall.

If we upped the bonus to 10%,a high end player has 30% crit.  If they pick up the talent their overall crit chance becomes 37.22% overall.

 

And so on.  You never LOSE crit overall from taking the talent.

 

There *IS* no "sweet spot" where promoting more rogues is bad.  More crit from rogue promotions will *always* increase your overall crit (up to the point where you hit 100% crit naturally).

 

You are right. Instead of 10% which seems to be OP's goal why not 50%? or 100% in all fairness? It's optional, while it is almost a freebie for classes that have it centered in the skill tree it is not that important of a passive say vs a stamina gain passive or damage resistant. These number were compared to one another for a reason. 100% should of been a fair comparison in all fairness    .

 

I actually think 10% is still too weak with the current design -- it's good for extremely extremely new players but it will very rapidly become worth less than 9% critical (which makes it "budgeted" less than the passive), that only takes 23%ish critical.  And it only gets worse from there.

But at least with 10% it's useful for *someone* and makes not complete garbage like it is now.

 

Also, it's *not* optional for some classes, they're forced to spend a point on it.  Alchemist, Assassin, Silent Sister, and Duelist have to take it en route to other stuff.

 

I guess one alternative would be for it to guarantee a critical hit on you next attack every X seconds. I'm just throwing stuff out there man.

 

Main problem with this is that it would mainly help with burst damage rather than sustained damage (opposite of what the general design is now).  Could potentially set it up so that it won't appear in the first place until you hit something and will fall off after 5 seconds of not hitting something or whatever.  But trickier to do and comprehend.

[Samahl na Revas]

buff it w/e.

[Samahl na Revas]

24.932% buff and everyone is happy.

[htisscrimbliv]

So is Pincushion and Cull the Herd.

"Passive" shouldn't mean garbage.

pincushion with the new hakkon bow up close is a 15 percent damage increase per shot assuming you hit everyshot. Against weaker enemies it might not last long enough to see the full effect, however fighting things like pride demons and dragons you can watch the numbers skyrocket. It's not a top priority, but it's certainly not garbage.

[Sothalor]

That was the point he was making. Pincushion is an example of a "numbers only" passive that's useful.

 

The crit chain passives are examples of "numbers only" passives that contribute so little they might as well be titled "We're taxing you a point here."

[Samahl na Revas]

nvm I don't have a horse in the race. Mod can delete my post please.

[MagicalMaster]

Dirthamen Genitivi, I'm sorry to see you edited all of your previous posts to remove your comments, but I do hope that you seriously consider what people have said.

 

The crit chain passives are examples of "numbers only" passives that contribute so little they might as well be titled "We're taxing you a point here."

 

Indeed.  I could even buy the "argument" that the talent is designed that way specifically to BE a tax...if the talent was mandatory for every character who possessed it.  But it's not.

 

I mean, hell, there are several classes that get a "5% crit to the whole party" talent -- that's 20% crit in most cases!  The fact that the 5% party crit talent is BETTER than this talent in a lot cases *even for just one person* should indicate something is wrong.

 

 

[MGW7]

As a replacement

crit damage increase by 10%, and an additional 10% for every non crit in the chain

 

For low level players this makes their crits significantly more powerful, for more experienced players it falls to a simple consistent bonus to damage.

 

never useless to anyone, no matter what their stats are.

[MagicalMaster]

As a replacement

crit damage increase by 10%, and an additional 10% for every non crit in the chain

 

You mean that in the sense of "flat 10% crit damage bonus, period, and every time you hit another 10% is added until you crit at which point it resets?"

 

So if you crit once every 5 attacks you'll get 50% more critical damage on that crit while if you crit every 3 attacks you'll get 30% more critical damage on that crit?  That could work too.

 

And for anyone worrying that would create a "sweet" spot consider the following (going to assume base crit damage bonus of 40% so the talent has the largest effect possible):

 

100% crit = 150% of weapon damage average.

50% crit = 160% of weapon damage 50% of the time, 100% of weapon damage 50% of the time = 130% of weapon damage average

33.3% crit: 170% of weapon damage 33.3% of the time, 100% of weapon damage 66.6% of the time = 123.3% of weapon damage average

25% crit: 180% of weapon damage 25% of the time, 100% of weapon damage 75% of the time = 120% of weapon damage average

 

Those numbers are assuming you literally crit every other attack on 50% crit, every third attack on 33.3% crit, and every fourth attack on 25% crit.  That's obviously not realistic and the actual numbers will differ slightly, but this is close enough for some quick napkin math.