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[Dancing_Dolphin]

They've been hinted at already before the DLC, in the Emerald Graves

The same creature can be found painted on two walls in the lost temple of Dirthamen. In fact you find a dead warrior with two stab wounds in his back at the foot of one of the images. So Dirthamen must have some connection to these creatures. This is part of the reason I believe becoming one of these things is an ability or curse, depending on one's perspective, rather than a race. Perhaps connected to the Reaver spec.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

DAI does state that dragons have high blight resistance. Perhaps these scaled creatures are dragon blooded and therefore are highly resistent to the blight?

 

They're not immune though. 

 

 

So did I. They look somewhat scaly to me. Except, wait, Hurlocks are based off Humans. Shrieks are based off Elves. I think you mean Genlocks (which were the same as Hurlocks, but more dwarfy in Origins)

 

But yeah. I think that was just the first encounter with the Darkspawn.

 

 

Seemed plenty similar to Darkspawn to me.

 

 

Hurlocks aren't lead by female blood mages and aren't unaccustomed to seeing one of their own perish. They also aren't generally ones to fight from the shadows. The Scaled Ones also speak a specific language of their own.

[Ranadiel Marius]

They're not immune though.

True, that they are not immune as evidenced by Archdemons, but have we ever seen common Darkspawn dragons that were produced by a broodmother...wait a second. The only things that produce broodmothers are sentient creatures. I feel like I just tripped over the toe of a statue so large that I am incapable of percieving it as a statue. O.o

[Jedi Master of Orion]

We did fight some tainted dragons in Awakening, although they were in the Architect's Lair, so they might have only been blighted because the Architect used his mastery over the taint.

[Caddius]

I do think we were given a huge hint though. It compares the look of the Scaled Ones with the Tevinter (aka humans). Qunari, really, do not look like Humans. To me this might be  clue that the Scaled Ones are related to Humans, either mutated through Dragon Blood Magic or something else.

 

Another clue as to why we have seen no Darkspawn equivalent of them: they left. It says they vanished at the end of the Codex, and as this seemed like a small confrontation of a couple of battalions (if not just one) of Dwarves with a small group of Scaled Ones who suddenly vanished, with no records of Thaigs lost or really any other damage to the Dwarves but random attacks, I'd assume the Scaled Ones did not reappear, the Shaperate did not have much to record so they were forgotten in that Dwarven way, and that the Scaled Ones were only in the Deep Roads for something we do not know about. But I am thinking it relates to the Old Gods, who at the time this takes place, would have all been alive, sleeping, and unblighted in the Deep Roads with a Cult of Dragon Worshipping Tevinters living above them.

Almost like the Old Gods' equivalent of the Titan's Sha-Brytol? That would actually make an excellent amount of sense. From the sounds of that Codex entry with Kardol, Archdemon prisons aren't the super-powerful lyrium matrixes I figured they had to be. It sounds like they're just in caverns, possibly unaccessible by the normal Deep Roads, sleeping. Maybe like the Titans, it was possible to get some blood without waking them up? So long as there was no Blight to wake them up.

[Ballax]

They've been hinted at already before the DLC, in the Emerald Graves

 

 

You know in a forested, exposed area, even the most durable paint would have faded or even completely disappeared within a lifetime much less if it had been painted the last time Scaled Ones were sighted. Someone....or something must have painted that really recently. 

[Beomer]

You know in a forested, exposed area, even the most durable paint would have faded or even completely disappeared within a lifetime much less if it had been painted the last time Scaled Ones were sighted. Someone....or something must have painted that really recently. 

 

Or special elven weatherproof paint.

[xPez]

This snake people theory seems slightly crack-pot to me. Can someone post the actual codex entry? I haven't got access to my xbone atm. When I first read it I though of darkspawn, and my theory is that the fire lady is an ancient magister.

[Andraste_Reborn]

Here's the whole thing.

 

Spoiler

 

Commander Othon told us to move out. He didn't give details, only that there'd been attacks north of Cad'halash and the Crown was sending reinforcements. Father grabbed our axes, and we were off. I was a boy then, puffed up from a few victories in the Provings. I didn't know what was going to be taken from me. But I would find out.

 

The journey to Cad'halash was long and tiresome. Bored warriors make poor drunks at camp. Father and I kept to ourselves, though I admit I longed to lose myself in a pint of ale, if only to have something to do other than sharpen my axe.

 

—From Chronicles of a Forgotten War, author unknown

 

 

A day after leaving Cad'halash, we noticed a change. The Deep Roads were practically abandoned. Torches would suddenly go out, leaving us to stumble though the dark and trip over discarded caravans. Then came the attacks, hard and fast.

 

Father was one of the first. We heard breathing: slow and heavy, from a creature much larger than us. Father held out his arm and grabbed the front of my armor to make me stop. I saw its shadow move, darker than the darkness, and then my body jerked forward. It left Father's arm hanging, still grasping my chestplate.

 

—From Chronicles of a Forgotten War, author unknown

 

 

The Scaled Ones. I can't remember who came up with the name, but it stuck. Drohg had been lighting a torch when one attacked, and we finally caught a glimpse of something other than shadows. In the flame's light, we saw a man's body like those of the Imperium humans, but covered in scales. It wore armor and even had a dagger hanging from its hip. Its jaws wrapped around Drohg's face and twisted. The crunch of his neck breaking seemed to echo down the Deep Roads. The torch fell from his hands, and we lashed out.

 

I swung my axe will all my might, but it bounced off the Scaled One's armor, the impact ricocheting up my arms. It let out a roar. Then more attacked. From the light of the fallen torch, I guessed there was a score of them, all wearing armor and carrying weapons as sharp as their teeth and talons. The one that killed Drohg barked orders I didn't understand. I kept swinging.

 

Othon, the best of us, made the first kill by splitting a Scaled One's head open. There was a strange silence as if after an upset in the Proving Grounds, and it hit me that these beasts were not used to seeing one of their own die. Drohg's killer growled and stamped out the torch. The Scaled Ones retreated into darkness.

 

Our bodies screamed for rest, but Othon pushed forward. Now that he'd seen the enemy, our commander wanted to use the Scaled Ones' tactics against them: go on the offensive. He left guards with the wounded and led the rest of the company to scout ahead for where the Scaled Ones were hiding.

 

After marching in darkness for days, we finally saw an amber light flickering in the distance. Othon signaled everyone to hold and waved me forward with him. We proceeded slowly, wary of possible guards. Othon nodded toward an overlook. I climbed with bated breath, terrified that the Scaled Ones would hear the echo of my boots scraping against the stone. I felt little relief when we reached the top.

 

—From Chronicles of a Forgotten War, author unknown

 

 

The Scaled Ones had set up a camp at an intersection in the Deep Roads. In the center there was a golden altar fashioned in the shape of fire. A chill swept through me. On the tip of each flame hung the corpses of those we'd lost—including Father and Drohg. They'd been drained of blood, leaving only bone wrapped in grey skin. A robed Scaled One stood before the altar. Its voice was different from the others: softer, almost feminine. It chanted and raised a basin of blood towards the altar. The other Scaled Ones bowed low. The robed Scaled One produced fire from its palm and mouth and ignited the blood.

 

Othon grabbed my forearm and motioned for us to climb down. We returned to the rest of the company, where he relayed what we had witnessed. We would rest for an hour, regain our strength, and strike.

 

The memory of Father's sagging, emptied face kept me awake. The hour passed slowly, but it did pass. Othon led us down the path to the overlook. I readied my axe for blood and steeled myself for the sight of the altar. But it wasn't there. The camp, Father and Drohg, the Scaled Ones... all gone. Only the basin remained, charred around the edges.

 

 

I guess there's a change that they're just darkspawn, but darkspawn don't have scales, aren't known to withdraw because they lose a single soldier and don't (generally) talk.

[Heimdall]

The only problem I have with lizard men being kossith is the process from kossith to qunari would be even more confusing. going from scales and no horns to horns and no scales that would mean qunari would lose its dragon blood not gain it because if a human reaver consumes so much dragon blood they grow scales then qunari would have there dragon blood taken out of them. So I am assuming maybe a offshoot of dragon hunters or entirely new race.

Considering how the Qunari consider hornless members of their kind to possess an auspicious destiny, I'd say removing or minimizing the dragon blood in their veins is their goal. Though like I said, the lack of horns gives me pause. Maybe they thought it would be two obvious and didn't mention it in the codex because of that.

[Beren Von Ostwick]

You know in a forested, exposed area, even the most durable paint would have faded or even completely disappeared within a lifetime much less if it had been painted the last time Scaled Ones were sighted. Someone....or something must have painted that really recently. 

 

They must have used the same paint that those people used who painted Leviathan millions of years ago on Namakli in the Pylos Nebula.

[Fearsome1]

Here's the whole thing.

 

I had not actually taken the time to read this stuff, so thanks for posting it! Sounds really intriguing and I do hope that we get a chance to meet these Scaled Ones?

[Dancing_Dolphin]

Here's the whole thing.

I guess there's a change that they're just darkspawn, but darkspawn don't have scales, aren't known to withdraw because they lose a single soldier and don't (generally) talk.

Indeed, and as you pointed out previously, nor do they make blood sacrifices to a fire god.

I was thinking about this last night and something occurred to me. Let's just say for the sake of argument that the moon men were indeed priests or followers of Sylaise, the goddess of love, beauty, and fire. What if these snake kings are the corrupted, twisted, version of part of the same or similar (priests of Uthemiel) group? It would explain why they continue to worship a fire god and why the two groups hate each other so much.

And just to be clear, I don't think these moon men are weird aliens, I think they're just ancient elves. I think the term "moon men" refers to who they serve not where they come from.

[TheBlackAdder13]

Or special elven weatherproof paint.

 

A wizard did it!

 

On a serious note, the moon men were only mentioned in that one codex entry that was clearly supposed to be the writing of a crackpot conspiracy nut. However, outside of that entry, the lizard people have a whole set of codices as a side quest in the new DLC as "the scaled ones" and we've seen at least two paintings of them in the main game, so it's looking like lizards are an actual thing. I really think the Moon Men insert was just for fun though as we have no other corroborating evidence for them.  #TheTruthIsOutThere

[TeffexPope]

Bioware has always laid subtle hints in various forms, like the codex, or cutscenes (like Larius spazzing out and cracking a rape face after Hawke 'kills' Corypheus) in each game that ends up being very relevant in the future. I think the whole moon men vs. snake kings thing, given what we now have heard about 'scaled ones', is the latest such thing.

 

Oh yeah, I read on the DA wiki that Kieran says something about the Titans if you're a dwarven Inquisitor. They do this kind of thing all the time..in hindsight, if you didn't suspect anything at the time, it makes you wonder how you could have missed the true meaning of what people say or what happened...

[Dancing_Dolphin]

A wizard did it!

On a serious note, the moon men were only mentioned in that one codex entry that was clearly supposed to be the writing of a crackpot conspiracy nut. However, outside of that entry, the lizard people have a whole set of codices as a side quest in the new DLC as "the scaled ones" and we've seen at least two paintings of them in the main game, so it's looking like lizards are an actual thing. I really think the Moon Men insert was just for fun though as we have no other corroborating evidence for them. #TheTruthIsOutThere

But...I want to believe. Go ahead, laugh if you must. You will see...you will *ALL* see. *crazy eyes*

[Reznore57]

When I read Moon Men and Lizard People , I go "nope , nope , nope" .

I like crazy theories but this sounds like it goes in pure Tinfoil Hat theories and that's something else.

 

Anyway it seems there were some snake people (I don't even like how it sounds , urgh) hopefully there's a reasonable explanation.

A group of people who went too far with dragon blood and started to change.

The Kossith ...

Not actual Snake People .

 

Now the whole dwarven war is a bit thin , it's not a tale of a "war" , it's a tale of a group of dwarves being attacked by some crazy unknown cult ONE time.

The information never made it to any Thaig , didn't even reach the surface ...so it was strange , but overall not a big deal.

 

Now it's a tale who may date from before the First Blight , with Shale Thaig and the dwarves aren't afraid of darkspawn and don't assume Darkspawn were attacking them at first.

So it was a long long time ago , those snake folks probably move on from Thedas since.

[King Killoth]

what if the dwarves of Kal'sherok drank dragons blood and became scaled.. a reason as to why they are so secretive and hide all their features in what little contact they have with traders. if dragons blood is the reason for turning humans into scaled ones and from what I gather the ones encountered in the deeproads in the codex are wearing tavinter armor then perhaps they where tavinter dragon hunters that got trapped in the deep roads and formed their own clan. breeding and fighting darkspawn and dwarves.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

This event took place looooong before the Blight caused Kal'Sharok to be cut off from the rest of the world. At the time it would have still been the capital of the Dwarven Empire.

[King Killoth]

When I read Moon Men and Lizard People , I go "nope , nope , nope" .

I like crazy theories but this sounds like it goes in pure Tinfoil Hat theories and that's something else.

 

Anyway it seems there were some snake people (I don't even like how it sounds , urgh) hopefully there's a reasonable explanation.

A group of people who went too far with dragon blood and started to change.

The Kossith ...

Not actual Snake People .

 

Now the whole dwarven war is a bit thin , it's not a tale of a "war" , it's a tale of a group of dwarves being attacked by some crazy unknown cult ONE time.

The information never made it to any Thaig , didn't even reach the surface ...so it was strange , but overall not a big deal.

 

Now it's a tale who may date from before the First Blight , with Shale Thaig and the dwarves aren't afraid of darkspawn and don't assume Darkspawn were attacking them at first.

So it was a long long time ago , those snake folks probably move on from Thedas since.

say the scaled ones where what the dwarves where fighting before the first blight.. wouldn't a massive horde of darkspawn be a threat to both the scaled ones and the dwarves and lead to both forces being decimated. little is know about the fall of the dwarven empire it is just assumed the darkspawn are the reason the deep roads got abandoned. could be they where already losing the deeproads long before the darkspawn showed up

[King Killoth]

This event took place looooong before the Blight caused Kal'Sharok to be cut off from the rest of the world. At the time it would have still been the capital of the Dwarven Empire.

true but thats not to say thats how Kal'Sharok survived. no one from the surface has been to Kal'Sharok not even the dwarves from orsamar. we know very little about them or how they survived the blights with out an army like the one in orsamar. keep in mind the anvil of the void the only thing that we know of that can make golems is near orsamar.

[Dancing_Dolphin]

When I read Moon Men and Lizard People , I go "nope , nope , nope" .
I like crazy theories but this sounds like it goes in pure Tinfoil Hat theories and that's something else.

I think that was the idea, to make it sound ridiculous and unbelievable when it's really just about elves and shapeshifters, of whom we both know already exist.

[Beomer]

The dwarves of Kal Sharok have more in common with the Darkspawn than Lizards / Dragons so I doubt whatever these Lizard men are they have anything to do with Kal Sharok's current mysteries.

What further supports this is that Kal Sharok dwarves were all normal before the Blights. Whatever sinister happened with them happened AFTER they had been cut off from Orzammar due to the Blight, which we know happened after this whole forgotten war thing.

[RoseLawliet]

Hurlocks aren't lead by female blood mages and aren't unaccustomed to seeing one of their own perish. They also aren't generally ones to fight from the shadows.

 

If this is the first time anyone encountered darkspawn, they (the darkspawn) would be unaccustomed to seeing their own perish. Lack of previous battles and all that.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Darkspawn already kill eachother regularly, almost from birth in fact.