930 réponses à ce sujet

[Seboist]

To take this back to the argument made in the original post:

 

Sexual dimorphism is a thing, true and men and women are definitely different, but I want to go out on a limb and argue that in the Mass Effectiversefuturething there might be technology or mechanical implants (those that Shepard got as well... maybe...) capable of providing the user with enough strength to negate the difference in muscle mass.

 

This might also make women choose the military career more often because I have a feeling a lot of women don't choose it because they know their bodies are not capable of the standard they have to achieve.

 

Just speculation and guessing here, but I think Bioware can get away with a closer to 50/50 ratio of men and women in the military.

 

It probably won't be completely 50/50 of course because no amount of implants or Shia LaBeouf screaming "JUST DO IT!" can counter act hormone balances and their influences on the human brain.

 

Also yes, I did just repeat my earlier point but nobody bothered to argue with it, so shhh.

 

A man with said tech and implants would be superior to a woman with the same things.

[slimgrin]

I'm not ignorant of that fact. I have no doubt that were she to compete in the lower weight classes against men, her undefeated streak wouldn't remain intact.

 

But at the same time, I have no doubt that she would be able to compete at a high level against the men in the lower weight classes.

 

No way in hell. I'm sorry but this idea is a myth. She could mop the floor with your average dude, but not a trained fighter. 

[Ridwan]

No way in hell. I'm sorry but this idea is a myth. She could mop the floor with your average dude, but not a trained fighter. 

Yup, video with her rolling with Mousasi, and while Mousasi is bigger it's fun to see how he's toying with her and Ronda getting frustrated.

[Lady Artifice]

Also, "my god" patriarchy? How bizarre. 

[AlexWk31]

I would love a female Anderson-like character. 

[Former_Fiend]

Gonna repeat my post.

 

No. Seriously, most people aren't fat and out of shape. I'm guessing you lot are from the states and are projecting the amount of obese fat people as a standard to what's the norm. Which is BS. Do you folks have any idea how strong people in construction, farming, carpentry or general blue collar work are? My own brother is a carpenter and he's gained far more strength through such work than he did when he worked out.

 

I live in a very rural area. Lot of farmers, lot of oil rig workers, lot of construction workers. I know what they're physically capable of. And I have no doubt that the majority of them would get their asses kicked by the women I've name dropped in this thread.

[rashie]

A man with said tech and implants would be superior to a woman with the same things.

The military also sees lighter gear as an opportunity to just make their troops carry more **** with them rather than lessen the burden, I have no idea how far progressed things are in the ME universe in comparison to real life though.

[Former_Fiend]

No way in hell. I'm sorry but this idea is a myth. She could mop the floor with your average dude, but not a trained fighter. 

 

Well, until she actually gets in the ring with a guy - which she has stated she isn't going to do due to the culture of domestic violence against women by athletes currently(whether you believe that or not is your own business) - we can't know for sure. 

 

A lot of people don't believe her reasoning and think she's afraid that her mystique is going to disappear as soon as she lost, which they think she would immediately against a guy. A lot of people think it's a case that no guys in the sport are willing to fight her on the off chance she beats them, because then they're the guy who got beat by a woman and they lose all their cred. Me, I'm willing to take her at her word because I'm trusting like that.

 

And having seen a lot of the guys in the lower weight classes, I have no doubt she could beat quite a few of them. It would be harder, and less frequent than her current fights, but I don't believe every male fighter currently competing is capable of beating her. 

[JAZZ_LEG3ND]

IF IT WORKS FOR THE STORY OR CHARACTER. I'm sick of seeing females being shoved in places. just to please some feminazi or sjw

As appose to males being shoved in places?

It's a well-known and documented fact that female led games get less marketing exposure because they allegedly don't sell well—the quintessential self-fulfilling prophecy if I ever heard it-- despite two of gaming’s biggest icons being female: Samus Aran and Lara Croft. Cliff Bleszinski remarked on Twitter recently that Mirror's Edge 2 looks great, and he hopes to see EA market it properly.

Creators in the AAA space are typically forced to make their games feature male characters, and the female cast is treated very poorly. Elizabeth being excluded from Bioshock Infinite boxart, damsel’d in the promotional material, and The Last of Us developers having to fight tooth and nail to get Ellie on their cover are just a couple easily recognized examples. Naughty Dog also had to fight to get female play testers for The Last of Us.

Dontnod Entertainment had a lot of trouble getting a female lead in Remember Me, and they were forced to remove the kissing scene. Their current title, Life is Strange--brilliant episodic game--which is very not a AAA game, has a female protagonist also.

Ninja Theory's Independent AAA experiment, Hellblade, features a female protagonist. No one forced their hand, unlike the many male characters that were forced into games that originally stared female characters.

Female avatars in Assassin's Creed Unity and FarCry4 multiplayer were deemed expendable by Ubisoft and ditched, despite both series having established playable females in the online space before. A deliberate regression because the permanent removal of playable women in their games was less important than filler fetch-quests. It goes without saying that this would never be the case for male avatars.

In conclusion, learn about the industry you're talking about before you talk about it.

[Ridwan]

I live in a very rural area. Lot of farmers, lot of oil rig workers, lot of construction workers. I know what they're physically capable of. And I have no doubt that the majority of them would get their asses kicked by the women I've name dropped in this thread.

Then you're delusional. Those women you name dropped are athletic entertainers. Great they can do amazing feats, jump around and they're very balanced. Guess what, a good solid punch from a blue collar guy still drops them to the floor. They're not professional fighters. If you had to pick women to make your case you should've selected women who are professional fighters. 

 

Here I'll give you some names of women who most likely could beat the average male with no problem. 

 

Ronda Rousey, Miesha Tate, Cat Zingano, Joanna Jedrzejczyk, Michelle Waterson, Cris "Cyborg" Justino, Megumi Fuji, Marloes Coenen, Lucia Rijker

[The Heretic of Time]

To take this back to the argument made in the original post:

 

Sexual dimorphism is a thing, true and men and women are definitely different, but I want to go out on a limb and argue that in the Mass Effectiversefuturething there might be technology or mechanical implants (those that Shepard got as well... maybe...) capable of providing the user with enough strength to negate the difference in muscle mass.

 

This might also make women choose the military career more often because I have a feeling a lot of women don't choose it because they know their bodies are not capable of the standard they have to achieve.

 

Just speculation and guessing here, but I think Bioware can get away with a closer to 50/50 ratio of men and women in the military.

 

It probably won't be completely 50/50 of course because no amount of implants or Shia LaBeouf screaming "JUST DO IT!" can counter act hormone balances and their influences on the human brain.

 

Also yes, I did just repeat my earlier point but nobody bothered to argue with it, so shhh.

 

That's all fair, but I disagree with the reasoning that women don't choose to join the military simply because they are less physically capable. I think it has more to do with the fact that being in the military is a dangerous and often life-changing job that is extremely taxing both physically and mentally. Joining the military and climbing the ranks requires a lot of work and sacrifices and most women probably just don't feel like that's what they wanna do (and I don't blame them). Augmentations and bio-engineering won't change that.

 

It's the same reason why we don't see any women in mining, and very few women in construction. Those jobs aren't fun, they're taxing, require a lot of work and don't really pay well in comparison.

If anything, the fact that women can freely decide not to do these jobs is a sign of privilege. Women are extremely privileged for not being forced to join the military (unlike men until recently) and not having to take up crappy jobs to support themselves or their families (unlike men).

 

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

You know i knew this BS was going to turn up i just knew it.

The right to vote was always a rich person thing. The peasants only got the right in exchange for military service. 

 

But heres my question who the hell cares in a world whith metal bird people and killer Cammel turtles whith 12 nuts?

[Pasquale1234]

Okay, bottom line. 
 
Setting aside this amusing delusion that patriarchy is a mythical concept without any part in setting the standards for gender roles in our society, or in pressuring and enforcing certain behaviors, and setting aside any debate over whether women want to be in the military enough to appear in leadership positions (a debate I don't necessarily feel like dignifying in itself), the lore we're dealing with isn't exactly subject to this contention.

Ruh-roh. You just used the "p" word, which will get you instantly branded as a radfem.

Never mind that the term was coined in academia and is used by social sciences to describe a particular form of social organization.

[9TailsFox]

You know i knew this BS was going to turn up i just knew it.

The right to vote was always a rich person thing. The peasants only got the right in exchange for military service. 

I don't get it what such big deal on voting, voting is joke it is just big popularity contest. I never vote because i have noting to vote for i just don't like all candidates. And disappointed in elections in general.

[Seboist]

Then you're delusional. Those women you name dropped are athletic entertainers. Great they can do amazing feats, jump around and they're very balanced. Guess what, a good solid punch from a blue collar guy still drops them to the floor. They're not professional fighters. If you had to pick women to make your case you should've selected women who are professional fighters. 

 

Here I'll give you some names of women who most likely could beat the average male with no problem. 

 

Ronda Rousey, Miesha Tate, Cat Zingano, Joanna Jedrzejczyk, Michelle Waterson, Cris "Cyborg" Justino, Megumi Fuji, Marloes Coenen, Lucia Rijker

 

Here she is getting knocked on her ass by a male nobody.

 

 

 

 

I don't get it what such big deal on voting, voting is joke it is just big popularity contest. I never vote because i have noting to vote for i just don't like all candidates. And disappointed in elections in general.

 

 

+1

 

I've never voted in my life and never intend to.

[SnakeCode]

No way in hell. I'm sorry but this idea is a myth. She could mop the floor with your average dude, but not a trained fighter. 

 

Yup. There was a female kickboxer called Lucia Rijker, who was pretty much unbeatable. As Ronda Rousey appears now. 37 kickboxing bouts undefeated with 25 KOs. Undefeated in boxing bouts at 17-0 with 14 KOs. Pretty much the best female kickboxer of all time. She had such a hard time finding someone who could compete with her she eventually chose to fight a man just to be given a challenge. That man was Somchai Jaidee, a journeyman in every sense of the word. Never made waves in pro kickboxing, mediocre record, mediocre skills. After a tentative start, they had the first big exchange where Lucia flurried and hit him clean multiple times. Somchai realises she cant hurt him, she flurries again and he walks through every shot and lands one of his own, which knocks her out cold. A male journeyman beat the best female of all time. That's just Biology. Some species the females are the larger, physically dominant sex, like hyenas and most insects, that isn't the case with human beings.

 

Edit- Seboist beat me to it.

[Lady Artifice]

Ruh-roh. You just used the "p" word, which will get you instantly branded as a radfem.

Never mind that the term was coined in academia and is used by social sciences to describe a particular form of social organization.

 

It's just baffling, the reaction that word gets. What kind of baggage does a person have to assign to a phrase, how far do they have to bury their head in the sand, not to realize how commonplace and well used as a general academic term it is? I heard it nearly three times a week in film studies classes, numerous times in world history. 

 

I would talk about matriarchal societies with roughly the same sense of political agenda that I mention patriarchal ones with, i.e. none. Yet, as soon as "patriarchy" is so much as mentioned, it's branded as a figment of my imagination? 

 

It's so patently ridiculous, I'm not sure whether it's funny or just sad. 

[The Heretic of Time]

Um. Yes? Women didn't begin to gain the right to vote in most countries until the late nineteenth century, and they still do not have the right to vote in some countries today. In most societies, both western and eastern, women have been regarded as the responsibility of their father or their husbands, rather than someone with an equal say in their own welfare.

 

History is the evidence. Patriarchy is a word for a society where men claim the superior role, the one with license to vote or to make independent decisions, and that has occurred in nearly every region of the planet at some point in the past. This is the term used by historians, academics, people with PHDs. This is not a recent, relative term, it's just a means to describe the historical nature of our society's structure. 

 

Therefore, the denial of it is comical. It's obtuse, and a little embarrassing. The effort to paint the term as a description of some mythical boogeyman? Even more so. 

 

Women not having the right to vote had nothing to do with patriarchy.

Women being the responsibility of men is no longer the case. Even so, this is also not a sign of patriarchy. If anything, this is a great privilege for women, as you women benefit from alimony and child support and you're almost always guaranteed to get the children in a divorce, after which men can only hope to ever see their own children again. Many of them don't, yet they still have to pay their ex-wife alimony and  child support.

Because men are expected to take care of their wives, it puts a great burden on their shoulders. Many men are forced to work crappy jobs and work over-hours just to support themselves and/or their families. Even after a divorce, men still have to pay for their wives and children, while only the women get child support!

 

Men also take up all the dangerous or crappy jobs for minimal pay. When is the last time you saw a female garbage collector, or a female miner? Is this evidence for patriarchy too?

 

How about the fact that almost 100% of all homeless people are men?

Or the fact that over 90% of successful suicides are committed by men?

 

Or the fact that the people living below the poverty line are primarily men?

Yeah, that patriarchy is definitely working out for us men!


No serious historian or intelligent person believes in your feminist definition of the patriarchy. It is very much a feminist boogeyman that doesn't exist in reality.
 

[JAZZ_LEG3ND]

The pathological need to validate male physical superiority with examples from absolute male dominated fields says very little about the fields or the examples.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yeah lets get Freddy Dukes as the next Shepard. 

Well, he is nearly unstoppable.

 

Show me.

Winston Churchill. 

[Asari Goddess]

You humans are all racist.

 

Srsly tho. More aliens plz.

 

yes fill the ship with female turians, salarians, and asari 

 

and quarian 

[Toasted Llama]

A man with said tech and implants would be superior to a woman with the same things.

 

To negligible levels, yes. The difference between 1 and 2 is a 100% increase, huge difference, but the difference between 10000001 and 10000002 almost nothing, relatively speaking, at least. Although I guess depends on how much the technology / implants would provide. But that is in Bioware's hands.

 

That's all fair, but I disagree with the reasoning that women don't choose to join the military simply because they are less physically capable. I think it has more to do with the fact that being in the military is a dangerous and often life-changing job that is extremely taxing both physically and mentally. Joining the military and climbing the ranks requires a lot of work and sacrifices and most women probably just don't feel like that's what they wanna do (and I don't blame them). Augmentations and bio-engineering won't change that.

 

It's the same reason why we don't see any women in mining, and very few women in construction. Those jobs aren't fun, they're taxing, require a lot of work and don't really pay well in comparison.

If anything, the fact that women can freely decide not to do these jobs is a sign of privilege. Women are extremely privileged for not being forced to join the military (unlike men until recently) and not having to take up crappy jobs to support themselves or their families (unlike men).
 

 

Hmmmm.... Fair point. Though something that always puzzled me is the idea that women don't want to make sacrifices or put in lots of physical efforts for minimal gain, yet that does not seem an issue for men. Isn't it human nature in everyone to put minimal effort to gain maximal profit?

 

Though I guess this boils down to gender roles and invisible privileges. You're very correct that the ability to choose not to join the military or other demanding jobs is a privilege.

 

 

I don't get it what such big deal on voting, voting is joke it is just big popularity contest. I never vote because i have noting to vote for i just don't like all candidates. And disappointed in elections in general.

 

Don't forget the fake display of "IM YOUR BEST FRIEND, I WANT EVERYTHING YOU WANT AS WELL AND YOUR LIFE WILL BE AMAZING IF YOU VOTE FOR ME!" eventually resulting in "lolfucku"

 

 

Democracy was such a great idea on paper.

[Former_Fiend]

Then you're delusional. Those women you name dropped are athletic entertainers. Great they can do amazing feats, jump around and they're very balanced. Guess what, a good solid punch from a blue collar guy still drops them to the floor. They're not professional fighters. If you had to pick women to make your case you should've selected women who are professional fighters. 

 

Here I'll give you some names of women who most likely could beat the average male with no problem. 

 

Ronda Rousey, Miesha Tate, Cat Zingano, Joanna Jedrzejczyk, Michelle Waterson, Cris "Cyborg" Justino, Megumi Fuji, Marloes Coenen, Lucia Rijker

 

Beyond the fact that I was the first person to name drop Rousey in this thread, you're underestimating what professional wrestlers are capable of. They're among the best athletes in the world. They aren't professional fighters, you're right about that. But in terms of endurance, in terms of durability, in terms of strength, they are leagues above the average person, blue collar or otherwise. 

 

Before anyone says it, yes, I am well aware that wrestling is "predetermined" and cooperative. It is not an actual combat sport. I don't need to be told that. But I also don't need to be lectured on their physical capabilities, because that is something I am also well versed in.

[SnakeCode]

The pathological need to validate male physical superiority with examples from absolute male dominated fields says very little about the fields or the examples.

 

So name a female dominated field then.

[Ridwan]

Well, he is nearly unstoppable.

 

Winston Churchill. 

And what battles was won under his command?