930 réponses à ce sujet

[The Heretic of Time]

Because neither my three year old nephew or my elderly aunt can aim a gun or fly a space ship.

 

My point is that the arguments regarding the physical gaps between human men and women are undercut by the simple fact that the gap between a human male and the other species in the galaxy is even greater. 

 

How can an elderly person not fly a ship? Even a cripple guy with weak bones can do that. And do you really think that's the only reason why the Alliance doesn't recruit kids or elderly people?

Your point is noted, but falls flat on it's face because you fail to recognize that there is more to soldiering than shooting or fighting badguys. Hint: Check Seboist's last post.

[Former_Fiend]

How can an elderly person not fly a ship? Even a cripple guy with weak bones can do that. And do you really think that's the only reason why the Alliance doesn't recruit kids or elderly people?

Your point is noted, but falls flat on it's face because you fail to recognize that there is more to soldiering than shooting or fighting badguys. Hint: Check Seboist's last post.

 

Reaction time and memory tend to fade in advanced age. And I imagine morality plays a factor in it, too.

 

And I'm not saying that physical fitness isn't at all important, but it's still a point of fitness, not perfection. A female soldier in good physical with the physical enhancements that come with human combatants in ME is going to be able to fireman-carry a male soldier in full combat gear just fine. It isn't about being the best, it's about being good enough to get the job done. 

[JAZZ_LEG3ND]

Because neither my three year old nephew or my elderly aunt can aim a gun or fly a space ship.

My point is that the arguments regarding the physical gaps between human men and women are undercut by the simple fact that the gap between a human male and the other species in the galaxy is even greater.

Yeah, but you know how it goes.

Spoiler

Kratos is so cool OMG he's gonna turn Hercules into pulp he's just so badass you guys!


OMG this is so immersion breaking and unbelievable because women can't, women shouldn't, women aren't, women never, I can't see the evidence, I've heard of facts that people think that no woman would... *chant* *groan* *chant* *mumble* *chant*

[Former_Fiend]

Yeah, but you know how it goes.

Spoiler

Kratos is so cool OMG he's gonna turn Hercules into pulp he's just so badass you guys!


OMG this is so immersion breaking and unbelievable because women can't, women shouldn't, women aren't, women never, I can't see the evidence, I've heard of facts that people think that no woman would... *chant* *groan* *chant* *mumble* *chant*

 

That is how we do. I'll never understand why, but there it is.

[The Heretic of Time]

Reaction time and memory tend to fade in advanced age. And I imagine morality plays a factor in it, too.

 

And I'm not saying that physical fitness isn't at all important, but it's still a point of fitness, not perfection. A female soldier in good physical with the physical enhancements that come with human combatants in ME is going to be able to fireman-carry a male soldier in full combat gear just fine. It isn't about being the best, it's about being good enough to get the job done. 

 

Really, reaction time and morality? That's the best you can come up with? You're trying really hard not to admit that physical prowess also plays a part, aren't you?

And no, it's not just a matter of getting the job done. It is very much a matter of striving to get the best of the best, especially when we're up against unknown odds. Do you think the potential badguys in Andromeda will go easy on us because we didn't get the best of the best, but merely people good enough to get the job done?

[JAZZ_LEG3ND]

Relevant watching.

 

[The Heretic of Time]

Relevant watching.

 

 

Relevant too:

[Former_Fiend]

Really, reaction time and morality? That's the best you can come up with? You're trying really hard not to admit that physical prowess also plays a part, aren't you?

And no, it's not just a matter of getting the job done. It is very much a matter of striving to get the best of the best, especially when we're up against unknown odds. Do you think the potential badguys in Andromeda will go easy on us because we didn't get the best of the best, but merely people good enough to get the job done?

 

I think you're taking my comments about children and the elderly a little too seriously and literally when the original statement, while factually true, was a piece of hyperbole to demonstrate a point.

 

And elitism isn't a good strategy in war. Having elite units is wise, but over all armies should be built on high numbers of "good enough" to be quickly mobilized and easily replaceable in the face of attrition. Our enemies in Andromeda aren't going to go easy on us once our "best of the best" fail due to inferior numbers and we aren't able to field replacements quick enough, either.

[Seboist]

Yeah, but you know how it goes.

Spoiler

Kratos is so cool OMG he's gonna turn Hercules into pulp he's just so badass you guys!


OMG this is so immersion breaking and unbelievable because women can't, women shouldn't, women aren't, women never, I can't see the evidence, I've heard of facts that people think that no woman would... *chant* *groan* *chant* *mumble* *chant*

 

Kratos is indeed more plausible and credible in his role than a woman would be.

 

Most women IRL aren't even capable of this:

 

[The Heretic of Time]

I think you're taking my comments about children and the elderly a little too seriously and literally when the original statement, while factually true, was a piece of hyperbole to demonstrate a point.

 

And elitism isn't a good strategy in war. Having elite units is wise, but over all armies should be built on high numbers of "good enough" to be quickly mobilized and easily replaceable in the face of attrition. Our enemies in Andromeda aren't going to go easy on us once our "best of the best" fail due to inferior numbers and we aren't able to field replacements quick enough, either.

 

I'm not saying we should limit ourselves to the best of the best and not recruit anyone else. But I am saying that every soldier is aught to strive to become the best of the best. Of course not everyone is equal, some soldiers will be better than others. The best of the best will get promotions and will be put into front-line and other key positions in the army, while the lesser capable soldiers will be put in support roles. 

Sure, women are good enough to join the army, but are they good enough for front-line and other key positions? In real life, the answer is no. In Mass Effect, the answer is: I don't know, but probably not. Why do I think that? Because outside of femShep, I haven't seen a single female soldier pull of any extraordinary feat in Mass Effect. Shepard is obviously going to be an exception, because from a gameplay standpoint, it would be incredibly lame to make a female Shepard weaker than a male Shepard.

[Han Shot First]

And what battles was won under his command? 

 

You don't have to be in great physical shape to command armies or navies. Many generals and admirals throughout history haven't been. Napoleon for example was described as 'plump,' and some of his portraits reflect that. 

 

You do have to be in good shape to be able to perform well in the duties of a common soldier, which involve a lot of strenuous physical activity and manual labor. Generals are far removed from that. They aren't digging fighting holes or marching 50 miles in two days with 60 or 70 lbs of gear on their backs. 

[We'll bang okay]

Even so. As an amateur writer and artist, I can tell you that my brain defaults to female on almost everything: writing, drawing, etc. And the same can be said for many straight male artists. Browse DeviantART and you'll see a pattern. The first Shepard animated was female.

Well we where all female at one point so was shepard... but on a more serious note I think that shepard only was animated as a female at first is well cough cough is became they could  remove some assets for the Male Shepard. that's just what I think. 

[JAZZ_LEG3ND]

Relevant too:

 
Sensationalist nonsense from the gynophobes.
It’s even got the slow spoken Thunderf00t wannabe narrating.

Many female soldiers have been killed in recent conflicts, so the video is factually incorrect in the initial 30 seconds.

Spare me.

[The Heretic of Time]

 
Sensationalist nonsense from the gynophobes.
It’s even got the slow spoken Thunderf00t wannabe narrating.

Many female soldiers have been killed in recent conflicts, so the video is factually incorrect in the initial 30 seconds.

Spare me.

 

Ofcourse you're just handwaving the video away as "sensationalist nonsense" while adding some ad hominems on top of that. Yeah, great rebuttal there. Should have expected such a reply though, because you obviously have no real rebuttal.

Would like a source for those "many" female soldiers being killed in recent conflicts though. I'm also curious to how many.

Even if what you say is true, you have to keep in mind the video was made in 2011.

[giveamanafish...]

It would be pretty funny if MEA didn't have an roughly equal number of males and females. It's an ark right. 

 

 

 

Edit: First Canadian female soldier who died in Afghanistan:

https://en.wikipedia...Nichola_Goddard

[KaiserShep]

Well we where all female at one point so was shepard.

Whataya mean? Shepard stayed that way until birth.

[Former_Fiend]

I'm not saying we should limit ourselves to the best of the best and not recruit anyone else. But I am saying that every soldier is aught to strive to become the best of the best. Of course not everyone is equal, some soldiers will be better than others. The best of the best will get promotions and will be put into front-line and other key positions in the army, while the lesser capable soldiers will be put in support roles. 

Sure, women are good enough to join the army, but are they good enough for front-line and other key positions? In real life, the answer is no. In Mass Effect, the answer is: I don't know, but probably not. Why do I think that? Because outside of femShep, I haven't seen a single female soldier pull of any extraordinary feat in Mass Effect. Shepard is obviously going to be an exception, because from a gameplay standpoint, it would be incredibly lame to make a female Shepard weaker than a male Shepard.

 

I don't disagree with you that every soldier in the alliance military, man or woman, should push themselves to be as good as they can, physically. I'm saying that between the enhancements they receive and the difference between peak human and above average anything else, the difference between human men and women becomes negligible, so there's no reason to keep them off the front lines.

 

As for female human combatants, it's true we don't see much in the way of the extraordinary from anyone but Shepard, but here's a few examples of women who either demonstrably or implicitly excell in the ME universe.

 

Firstly, and obviously, there's Ashley. Granted we don't see anything exceptionally remarkable from her in cut scenes, but she's good enough for Shepard's squad and, in ME1, is the single best offensive team mate.

 

In Kasumi's personal mission, we see her vastly exceeding what the human body should be capable of when she takes down Hock's ship; it's never exactly explained how, but she does. Suppose that could just have been the animators having a laugh, though.

 

For implicit, out of the four confirmed N7 graduates in the series not including Shepard, two of them are women. Their roles are very minor compared to the known male graduates - Kai Leng and Anderson - but just the fact that they made N7 says something. 

[themikefest]

You don't have to be in great physical shape to command armies or navies. Many generals and admirals throughout history haven't been. Napoleon for example was described as 'plump,' and some of his portraits reflect that. 

 

You do have to be in good shape to be able to perform well in the duties of a common soldier, which involve a lot of strenuous physical activity and manual labor. Generals are far removed from that. They aren't digging fighting holes or marching 50 miles in two days with 60 or 70 lbs of gear on their backs. 

I hated digging foxholes. They suck, but had to be done. The marching 50 miles doesn't bother me. 

[The Heretic of Time]

I don't disagree with you that every soldier in the alliance military, man or woman, should push themselves to be as good as they can, physically. I'm saying that between the enhancements they receive and the difference between peak human and above average anything else, the difference between human men and women becomes negligible, so there's no reason to keep them off the front lines.

 

Are you just guessing that this is the case or do you actually have a source that the gap between the physical peak of men and women became negligible in the MEU?

[Former_Fiend]

Are you just guessing that this is the case or do you actually have a source that the gap between the physical peak of men and women became negligible in the MEU?

 

Well, I could cite the "absence of evidence to the contrary", but even if the gap was exactly the same as it is today, it would still be proportionately negligible given the gap between us other species.

 

So, yes, I'm guessing. And you could argue that what I'm basing that guess on amounts to nothing, or is entirely the product of Bioware being politically correct over realistic and just not tackling the issue. Me, I find it to be a logical conclusion to reach. You're free to disagree on that point.

[JAZZ_LEG3ND]

Ofcourse you're just handwaving the video away as "sensationalist nonsense" while adding some ad hominems on top of that. Yeah, great rebuttal there. Should have expected such a reply though, because you obviously have no real rebuttal.

Would like a source for those "many" female soldiers being killed in recent conflicts though. I'm also curious to how many.

Even if what you say is true, you have to keep in mind the video was made in 2011.

Gynophobia is predominantly the condition that afflicts Men’s Rights Activism. It is rampant with misogynist apologists. There is nothing about the laughably produced videos such as the ones provided that I can take seriously.

The only Men’s Rights Activist I’ve ever seen who I could actually take seriously was, perhaps ironically, a woman. And even she fell off the deep end constantly with sweeping statements and fictional claims.

Also, because you're curious.

[The Heretic of Time]

Well, I could cite the "absence of evidence to the contrary", but even if the gap was exactly the same as it is today, it would still be proportionately negligible given the gap between us other species.

 

So, yes, I'm guessing. And you could argue that what I'm basing that guess on amounts to nothing, or is entirely the product of Bioware being politically correct over realistic and just not tackling the issue. Me, I find it to be a logical conclusion to reach. You're free to disagree on that point.

 

Fine, then I guess we can agree to disagree.

[Former_Fiend]

Fine, then I guess we can agree to disagree.

 

I can live with that.

[Hadeedak]

Kratos is indeed more plausible and credible in his role than a woman would be.

 

Most women IRL aren't even capable of this:

 

 

I'm a female (volunteer) firefighter and I do just fine, even with some of the big guys when we're practicing the rescues (how it was decided I get to carry the biggest guy in the department I don't even know). I'm also not rubbish in the actual calls, though through luck and an extra-ordinarily small town, I haven't had to haul anyone anywhere without help and the stretcher yet.

 

...S'not like I'm exactly a physical god, either. It's mostly balance and common sense. Really, what is this. I'm with Fiend. Gear and a modicum of training can make up for the gender physicality gap in all but the highest echelons. 

[Seboist]

Gynophobia

 

That the new buzz term with the kiddies nowadays? Did muh soggy knee become too passe?