930 réponses à ce sujet

[Seboist]

I apologize.

 

Let's just let Bioware do their thing and make another awesome game! 

 

No need to apologize, on the contrary, you should feel proud in contributing to a thread that delivers in every way imaginable.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Not sure who you're talking about, but I've never said that.

I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about people like Ridwan and Hrulj. 

 

Besides, the whole debate about physical parity between men and women is only 1 side of the coin. There is the other side that has yet to receive a solid counter-argument. The other side being the fact that men and women have different interests and different preferences.

Even if augmentations would completely remove the physical differences between men and women, you'd still be dealing with the fact that significantly less women want to enlist than men.

I was just addressing the physical side of the issue. For the other side, it's hard to say what people would prefer and want 170 years in the future. The people who lived 170 years in the past preferred and wanted different things than we do now. Maybe becoming a soldier becomes a thing a lot more people of all sexes and genders want and prefer after the First Contact War, where now being a soldier means being a defender of humanity. 

[The Heretic of Time]

I was just addressing the physical side of the issue. For the other side, it's hard to say what people would prefer and want 170 years in the future. The people who lived 170 years in the past preferred and wanted different things than we do now. Maybe becoming a soldier becomes a thing a lot more people of all sexes and genders want and prefer after the First Contact War, where now being a soldier means being a defender of humanity. 

 

Maybe, maybe not. The only people who can decide that is BioWare. And judging on the content we have so far (3 games and 3 books), it seems that the gender gap in the military has become somewhat smaller, but is still there in the MEU universe.

 

And no, BioWare doesn't have to change that if they don't want to. It's their universe, their rules, their decision if they want to listen to the "PC crowd" or stick to their own vision.

[Nomen Mendax]

Not sure who you're talking about, but I've never said that.

 

 

Besides, the whole debate about physical parity between men and women is only 1 side of the coin. There is the other side that has yet to receive a solid counter-argument. The other side being the fact that men and women have different interests and different preferences.

Even if augmentations would completely remove the physical differences between men and women, you'd still be dealing with the fact that significantly less women want to enlist than men.

You are not really making an argument to counter. Yes, women and men have different interests and preferences. You've made a lot of assertions about women not wanting to take crappy jobs (while narrowing down the definition of crappy jobs to be those that fit your argument) or join the military but you haven't actually presented any evidence for any of this stuff.

 

The observable data suggests that women are entering traditional male dominated fields (like the military). What percentage of people in those fields will be women in the next 50 or so years is (I imagine) hard to predict but it's likely to be more than it is currently. As I've tried to point out it is only relatively recently that women have entered many traditionally male fields, so to assume that the percentage of women currently in those fields is going to be the stable steady state is fairly naive. I'm not even going to touch the arguments about genetically engineered and augmented women vs men in the fictional 2100s because they are obviously absurd.

[Steelcan]

I for one am offended by something in this thread

 

not sure what yet, but I'll find it eventually

[In Exile]

Maybe, maybe not. The only people who can decide that is BioWare. And judging on the content we have so far (3 games and 3 books), it seems that the gender gap in the military has become somewhat smaller, but is still there in the MEU universe.

 

And no, BioWare doesn't have to change that if they don't want to. It's their universe, their rules, their decision if they want to listen to the "PC crowd" or stick to their own vision.

 

Where is this gender gap? The enlisted ranks seem to be pretty equal between men and women, and they're the ones in primary combat roles. We have prominent male and female soliders - in the boots on the ground sense - in ME. You only start to see the gender gap once you get into the higher levels of the chain of command, which is really different from IRL.

[Fixers0]

Where is this gender gap? The enlisted ranks seem to be pretty equal between men and women, and they're the ones in primary combat roles. We have prominent male and female soliders - in the boots on the ground sense - in ME. You only start to see the gender gap once you get into the higher levels of the chain of command, which is really different from IRL.

And this is were you are wrong, throughout the series much of the military encounterd are primarily male. For example during priority Earth almost all marines at the fob are male. On the presidium in me1 private fredericks' group is entirely male. Most of the human c-sec corpses during the coup are male, etc. In reality there were clearly much more male military background characters that female ones. When it codes to named characters howeveref there are disproportionally more female characters.

[Lady Artifice]

It's a fairly loaded term. Sure you can talk about it on a academic level and as far as I can tell you have expressly limited yourself to that. But I am fairly sure you also know it's used far far more often in other ways that are less benign. Basically academic vs how used in almost every other form of media. It is far more often used as a political term for most people.

 

Of course it's political, just like the term "capitalism" is political. I'm not going to stop using that one either, because it's sheer permeating influence on the culture I live inside of qualifies it as subject to discussion even beyond a political stage. If the people who dismiss patriarchy had actually bothered to acquaint themselves with the actual definition of the term, outside of their sole association of it as a feminist buzzword, they would realize that we don't even need to look to outdated historical forms of the system. The very fact that we, both eastern and western societies, traditionally pass down paternal surnames as opposed to maternal ones is enough to make us--by definition--a patriarchal society. 

 

https://www.google.c...sl#q=patriarchy

 

That's all we need, just that tradition alone, and voila...patriarchy according to it's genuine definition. So if someone wants to either deny the existence of that tradition, or simply function on a incorrect definition of the word patriarchy in order to continue to falsely perceive it as an outcry against the male sex, that's their prerogative. I just reserve the right to call it dumb, and maybe laugh at them a little. In the meanwhile, I will continue to call a rose a rose and let more fanciful people than I take on the task of adjusting meanings to suit their particular understanding of words. 

[Hrulj]

I was responding to how some people saying that having female soldiers would require them lowering the standards of being a soldier, thus weakening the army as a whole. Due to genetic enhancements, recruits regardless of sex or gender would be able to surpass the standards set by the military without them having to lower said standards. 

 

Lowering the standards in military in order to acomodate women is a fact that any soldier will confirm. Its not sexism, prejudice or hate of women. Its just how it is.

 

Ok lets say there is an implant or modification that can enhance someones strenght by 100%. Now men naturaly have about 60% greater upper body strenght and 40% greater lower body strenght - on average. 

By increasing everyone by 100% that 60% difference still stands and remains. You do understand that? Unless we give men weaker enhancements, like 40% instead of regular 100%, they will still be in advantage.

 

 

I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about people like Ridwan and Hrulj. 

 

I was just addressing the physical side of the issue. For the other side, it's hard to say what people would prefer and want 170 years in the future. The people who lived 170 years in the past preferred and wanted different things than we do now. Maybe becoming a soldier becomes a thing a lot more people of all sexes and genders want and prefer after the First Contact War, where now being a soldier means being a defender of humanity. 

I think you misunderstood me, so I would like to clariffy. I have nothing against greater number of women. I actualy prefer female companions and all that. BUT - I dont want it being done just to suit SJW narative. It doesnt aid gameplay and the next complaint after that will be "women are too sexy - change it!" We saw that in other games, and I dont want that to happen in this game as well.

 

Seconly, people have preferences that remain trough milenia. Women have equal opportunity, yet most garbage collectors, construction workers and oil rig workers are men.

Women have equal right but they rarely chose STEM fields

 

Sexism? Or lack of attraction towards those fields?

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

just because this is related.

[Kappa Neko]

just because this is related.

They  are both idiots if you ask me...

[Kappa Neko]

On the subject of this thread... I don't care how many high ranking military women there are in Mass Effect. In my game the galaxy was saved by two women, femShep and Liara. Who cares if only one of them is military?

In fact, Bioware puts a lot of emphasis on smart/powerful female characters in their games (Liara, Miranda, Tali, Morrigan, Flemeth, Cassandra). Which makes sense, games made by men for men. So they create lots of amazing women to fantasize about while female gamers are given Jacob...

But this tendency to make female characters more interesting actually benefits female gamers too. Lots of cool role models! If only the romance options weren't so damn poor...

 

About physical strength: I'm a woman who can't even do ONE proper push-up. Never mind pull-ups. That didn't change one bit after 10 months of rock climbing. I had to make up for my utter lack of upper body strength and being short with creativity and good balance. I got up SOMEHOW, but it was much harder for me.

My best friend went to the gym six days a week for a year. She got really strong compared to the average woman. Compared to a man what she could lift was still a bit of a joke. And even she couldn't do pull-ups. It infuriated her.

So yes, women are much weaker. And that's fine. We are more graceful.^^

 

And no, I would never dream of becoming a solider. None of my female friends do. But I know a few guys who served briefly. So makes sense for me that there a fewer women in the military. If that's conditioning or not, I do not know.

Either way, the Mass Effect universe is fictional. There is nothing wrong with the ratio unless Bioware explicitly addressed sexism. Which they didn't.

[Ridwan]

On the subject of this thread... I don't care how many high ranking military women there are in Mass Effect. In my game the galaxy was saved by two women, femShep and Liara. Who cares if only one of them is military?

In fact, Bioware puts a lot of emphasis on smart/powerful female characters in their games (Liara, Miranda, Tali, Morrigan, Flemeth, Cassandra). Which makes sense, games made by men for men. So they create lots of amazing women to fantasize about while female gamers are given Jacob...

But this tendency to make female characters more interesting actually benefits female gamers too. Lots of cool role models! If only the romance options weren't so damn poor...

 

About physical strength: I'm a woman who can't even do ONE proper push-up. Never mind pull-ups. That didn't change one bit after 10 months of rock climbing. I had to make up for my utter lack of upper body strength and being short with creativity and good balance. I got up SOMEHOW, but it was much harder for me.

My best friend went to the gym six days a week for a year. She got really strong compared to the average woman. Compared to a man what she could lift was still a bit of a joke. And even she couldn't do pull-ups. It infuriated her.

So yes, women are much weaker. And that's fine. We are more graceful.^^

 

And no, I would never dream of becoming a solider. None of my female friends do. But I know a few guys who served briefly. So makes sense for me that there a fewer women in the military. If that's conditioning or not, I do not know.

Either way, the Mass Effect universe is fictional. There is nothing wrong with the ratio unless Bioware explicitly addressed sexism. Which they didn't.

 

About time we saw someone who doesn't live in a fantasy world.

[rashie]

Not only that but her entire asinine argument disqualifies FemShep as a viable character.

 

Beyond that, never trust someone who ignorantly speaks on behalf ("we women") of a huge/diverse population. 

Femshep isn't nearly as muscular built as her character model should be, for someone being able to get through what equals modern day SAS training that knocks out ~80-90%+ of all men trying, leaves many wounded and even some dead.

 

But then again, it doesn't matter there since video game and lore saying it works alright.

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

They  are both idiots if you ask me...

kinda my point.

[Kappa Neko]

Femshep isn't nearly as muscular built as her character model should be, for someone being able to get through what equals modern day SAS training that knocks out ~80-90%+ of all men trying, leaves many wounded and even some dead.

 

But then again, it doesn't matter there since video game and lore saying it works alright.

FemShep is half-cyborg at some point. She's no ordinary woman. Plus, crazy videogame combat skills. If she's a biotic, she doesn't even have to be THAT muscular.

That's why I never had a problem with her shouldering a heavily armored Kaidan. Could a real life woman do that? No.

[JAZZ_LEG3ND]

About physical strength: I'm a woman who can't even do ONE proper push-up. Never mind pull-ups. That didn't change one bit after 10 months of rock climbing. I had to make up for my utter lack of upper body strength and being short with creativity and good balance. I got up SOMEHOW, but it was much harder for me.
My best friend went to the gym six days a week for a year. She got really strong compared to the average woman. Compared to a man what she could lift was still a bit of a joke. And even she couldn't do pull-ups. It infuriated her.
So yes, women are much weaker. And that's fine. We are more graceful.^^

Consult a trainer who knows what s/he is talking about. Dieting incorrectly, and particularly working-out on an empty stomach, will cause your body to burn muscle and make you weaker. This is a big problem among runners. Doing it wrong, for no matter how long, will always yield negative results.

Taking something you can't do, or something another can't do, and pinning it on their gender is, to borrow a phrase from TotalBiscuit, intellectually bankrupt. I can't do push-ups on one arm, it certainly isn't because I'm a man, and many women can, and that isn't because they're women.

Male and female overall strength differential notwithstanding.

[Han Shot First]

More ponies.

 

 

[Heathen Oxman]

Since it's a video game and completely fake, they can have female characters do whatever they want. Chicks could punch boulders or spin huge dinosaurs around by the tail if that's what they wanted to do.

 

In reality though... unless you're built like Brienne of Tarth, the majority of women are just not gonna have the same strength and physical capabilities as men. Military infantry especially requires strenuous physical activity that even a lot of men can't live up to. If you think the average woman can deal, then you're a fool.

 

Oh, I'd agree that men are much stronger than women.  It's precisely because of my experience in the military that I can appreciate just how much stronger men are.

 

However, as to the original subject of this thread and the number of high-ranking women, the introduction of biotics skews the "physical strength" angle.  A woman with biotic abilities is going to be able to destroy a male without biotic abilities, despite her inability to do as many push-ups.  If I remember correctly there were approximately an equal number of men and women in Grissom Academy.  Additionally, I'd assume the Alliance military is going to want to recruit strong biotics, regardless of whether or not they can do pull-ups.

[God]

Oh, I'd agree that men are much stronger than women.  It's precisely because of my experience in the military that I can appreciate just how much stronger men are.

 

However, as to the original subject of this thread and the number of high-ranking women, the introduction of biotics skews the "physical strength" angle.  A woman with biotic abilities is going to be able to destroy a male without biotic abilities, despite her inability to do as many push-ups.  If I remember correctly there were approximately an equal number of men and women in Grissom Academy.  Additionally, I'd assume the Alliance military is going to want to recruit strong biotics, regardless of whether or not they can do pull-ups.

 

Tell that to non-biotic Shepard, who routinely annihilated biotics.

[Heathen Oxman]

Tell that to non-biotic Shepard, who routinely annihilated biotics.

 

Never played a non-biotic Shepard, so I can't comment.

 

But if we're trying to be "realistic," a non-biotic dude is going to get wrecked as soon as a biotic casts reave.

[Wulfram]

Human biotics are I think both too rare and, because they can't have been born before 2148, too young to really figure in this.  Though those things may be less true in ME:A, of course.

 

I also wonder if Biotics might find their promotion prospects hindered by a desire to keep them employed somewhere they can actually use their powers.

[rashie]

FemShep is half-cyborg at some point. She's no ordinary woman. Plus, crazy videogame combat skills. If she's a biotic, she doesn't even have to be THAT muscular.

That's why I never had a problem with her shouldering a heavily armored Kaidan. Could a real life woman do that? No.

I haven't argued against her inclusion, most of my playthroughs were on a femshep, just how her model doesn't properly reflect what we are told about her character in the narrative visually.

http://www.nexusmods...ect3/mods/187/?

Take a look at some of those picture, that's what it should look like at a minimum in my opinion.

[WildOrchid]

Human female as primary antagonist.

 

Sign me the f00k up. This game needs more female main antagonists.