930 réponses à ce sujet

[Battlebloodmage]

 Meredith went crazy because of the Lyrium, but she's also a sympathetic character before that based on her history. Orsino is just bad and has no excuse, he's also under Meredith's authority.

[Panda]

I would disagree with some points in your earlier statement, but it's not really that important.  The point of my statement wasn't that there are too many women in positions of power, but merely that sometimes through character writing, imbalances occur.  Dictating character stories through demographic distribution rather than organic creativity is stifling.

 

But, I will say that BW seems afraid of writing female villains.

 

In fact, I can only think of three serious female villains of the top of my head in DA and ME:  Matriarch Benezia, Calpernia, and Branka.  And two of those come with caveats.  Benezia is affected by Sovereign's mind control, and Calpernia is a freer of slaves who is duped by Corypheus and can be turned against him in the end.

 

(I recognize that in true forum style, someone will be like "well actually" and list someone I forgot about).

 

The only female villain who is a villain by her own right (though you can still agree to work with her) is Branka.   I think that may be due, in large part, to the fact that Branka was actually written by a female writer (Jennifer Hepler).

 

I just don't find noticeable imbalance in DAI, in ME side what mostly creates imbalance to me is lack of female aliens of many species, but I already did thread for that one.. Personally I don't think change would be very notable in ME in terms of high ranking human women, since we really didn't see many high ranking humans around the games so I didn't even notice that there were lack of women in that department. Of course some could have been women and it wouldn't have changed anything either.

 

Others already pointed out more female villains.. there is more than three notable one's ^^

[Pasquale1234]

Mother Petrice still sticks in my craw.

A great villain.

IIRC, Grand Cleric Elthina was fairly toothless, if not incompetent - though I guess individual interpretations may vary.

[Pasquale1234]

Meredith went crazy because of the Lyrium, but she's also a sympathetic character before that based on her history. Orsino is just bad and has no excuse, he's also under Meredith's authority.

I'd say Orsino is also a sympathetic character, at least in some ways. He and his charges had been putting up with templar abuse for a very long time, and he eventually lost it.

Bioware has cranked out a long line of multi-faceted villains, imho, and they're much more interesting than For the Evulz types.

 

Loghain, the Architect, Meredith, Orsino, the Arishok, Petrice, a bevy of blood mages around Kirkwall, even the Reapers.  All had reasons for their actions, perfectly valid and reasonable according to their world view.

[Jaquio]

I'd say Orsino is also a sympathetic character, at least in some ways. He and his charges had been putting up with templar abuse for a very long time, and he eventually lost it.

Bioware has cranked out a long line of multi-faceted villains, imho, and they're much more interesting than For the Evulz types.

 

Loghain, the Architect, Meredith, Orsino, the Arishok, Petrice, a bevy of blood mages around Kirkwall, even the Reapers.  All had reasons for their actions, perfectly valid and reasonable according to their world view.

 

The sad thing is that most of the characters that fit this bill are older BW characters.  There's been a definite slant towards For the Evulz types over time, and I hope that reverses course with the newer games.

 

My favorite villain is the Arishok, because he wasn't even a villain.  My Hawke liked the guy and they got along.  But the circumstances of both parties drove them to a fight that neither really wanted.  It was tragic and real, and much more engaging than Corypheus tying the world to metaphorical train tracks while he twirled his mustache.

[Giantdeathrobot]

I'd like to have a female main antagonist. Kinda like a Tela Vasir, but for a whole game. 

[Steelcan]

idk why people like Tela Vasir so much, she wasn't that great

[N7Jamaican]

As mentioned earlier in this thread, there are lots of "high ranking" women in ME.  FemShep being one of them if you believe your Shepard's story to be canon.

[Pasquale1234]

idk why people like Tela Vasir so much, she wasn't that great

I expect that might be because she's a Spectre, and as such, said and did some things that some players might have liked their Shepard to say / do, but the game did not allow it.

[Panda]

idk why people like Tela Vasir so much, she wasn't that great

 

"You want to judge me? Look in the mirror."

 

She's simply bad-ass character with nice amount depth in short time she had. Also she challenged Shepard.

[Battlebloodmage]

As mentioned earlier in this thread, there are lots of "high ranking" women in ME.  FemShep being one of them if you believe your Shepard's story to be canon.

The leader of Salarian, the leader of Asari, Eve, Shepard's mom, Ashley, Shepard.

[Battlebloodmage]

I'd say Orsino is also a sympathetic character, at least in some ways. He and his charges had been putting up with templar abuse for a very long time, and he eventually lost it.

Bioware has cranked out a long line of multi-faceted villains, imho, and they're much more interesting than For the Evulz types.

 

Loghain, the Architect, Meredith, Orsino, the Arishok, Petrice, a bevy of blood mages around Kirkwall, even the Reapers.  All had reasons for their actions, perfectly valid and reasonable according to their world view.

That's not Orsino as a sympathetic character. That's the mage storyline as a whole. He as a first enchanter wouldn't face the kind of torture a regular mage would have. At least, it's like he has an oppressed boss. He was evil throughout with the Blood magic, hiding criminals, then suddenly turn into the harvester. 

[Former_Fiend]

The leader of Salarian, the leader of Asari, Eve, Shepard's mom, Ashley, Shepard.

 

I don't know if it's entirely fair to count asari leadership here. It's not like the asari can have male leadership. 

[Battlebloodmage]

 

I don't know if it's entirely fair to count asari leadership here. It's not like the asari can have male leadership. 

*cough*Divine*cough*

 

This is about presence of female leaders. It shouldn't matter if the Divine or the Asari leader can only be females.

[Pasquale1234]

That's not Orsino as a sympathetic character. That's the mage storyline as a whole. He as a first enchanter wouldn't face the kind of torture a regular mage would have. At least, it's like he has an oppressed boss. He was evil throughout with the Blood magic, hiding criminals, then suddenly turn into the harvester.

It's been a very long time since I've played DA2, so my memory of some parts of it is pretty rusty. I do remember Kirkwall as having a very thin veil and more than its share of blood mages and other unusual activity. Long term exposure to that could take a toll on any mage. As the First Enchanter, he might not be subjected to templar abuse, but the people for whom he is responsible would be - and he has been helpless to stop it.

Regardless, this is off topic.

[Battlebloodmage]

It's been a very long time since I've played DA2, so my memory of some parts of it is pretty rusty. I do remember Kirkwall as having a very thin veil and more than its share of blood mages and other unusual activity. Long term exposure to that could take a toll on any mage. As the First Enchanter, he might not be subjected to templar abuse, but the people for whom he is responsible would be - and he has been helpless to stop it.

Regardless, this is off topic.

Basically, he hasn't gone through any dramatic experience. Seeing bad stuffs happening is no more tragic than what the majority of mages and many civilians have to go through, personally or indirectly. Yeah, this is off-topic at this point since this is about ME anyway.

[Bad King]

It's the military. It's a predominantly male field. It always has been, and it likely always will be. The reason? Not nearly as many women join the military as much as men do. Hence, you're more likely to get high ranking men than you are women.

 

It seems like false egalitarianism and inclusiveness to put so many women at so many levels. It's arbitrary.

 

The OP was talking about leadership in general, not merely military leadership, and it's true that amongst humans in the game there aren't a great deal of prominent female leaders. But even if we consider the military alone, the parameters of the military have certainly shifted with the development of biotics, omni-tools and star ships, so one would expect there to be more women involved in the military of the Mass Effect universe than in contemporary or historical military forces in the real world.

[Lady Artifice]

I loved Orsino, even his extremely shady side, right up until the ending. Before that ending, I thought Harvesters were scary and Orsino was kind of cool. Then it was all ruined.  

[Wulfram]

*cough*Divine*cough*

 

This is about presence of female leaders. It shouldn't matter if the Divine or the Asari leader can only be females.

 

It does matter if the Divine or the Asari leader can only be female, because it creates a situation where there should be a skew towards female leaders, unless that skew is countered elsewhere by a preference towards male leaders.  Which it is at least to some extent - Krogan, Salarians, Qunari, Dwarves and Orlesians all have reasons why you might expect to encounter more leaders who are men.

 

But these complicating factors are why my request focuses on humans.  It's hard to work out where all the various issues among the aliens work out to, but no matter how many asari leaders are out there, I believe that the human leadership should reflect the human society of the setting of the game - and since the society of Mass Effect appears to be largely equal, the human leadership should include significant numbers of women.

[Battlebloodmage]

 

It does matter if the Divine or the Asari leader can only be female, because it creates a situation where there should be a skew towards female leaders, unless that skew is countered elsewhere by a preference towards male leaders.  Which it is at least to some extent - Krogan, Salarians, Qunari, Dwarves and Orlesians all have reasons why you might expect to encounter more leaders who are men.

 

But these complicating factors are why my request focuses on humans.  It's hard to work out where all the various issues among the aliens work out to, but no matter how many asari leaders are out there, I believe that the human leadership should reflect the human society of the setting of the game - and since the society of Mass Effect appears to be largely equal, the human leadership should include significant numbers of women.

Without being inflated, the number of high ranking humans are not that many in the first place. Only 4 that matters if you include Illusive Man. I'm not opposed people wanting more females. I'm in favor of it, but what I'm opposed is it being a requirement. Intentionally include women just because instead of writing characters who happen to be men or happen to be women. Writers should be mindful of the gender and race diversity, but they should not be obligated to include them if it's not the characters they want to create. 

[Pasquale1234]

I'm still trying to figure out how, for example, Hackett or Anderson would have been different characters had either of them been female. They would have needed different character models and VAs, but aside from that - I don't see any reason for any difference.

[DEUGH Man]

I think they should play with the idea of total equality. Have one man and one woman share every position of authority, and make it to where they have to come to a consensus to make a decision. Then you'd have to find a way to persuade them both. Imagine having to convince a paragon and renegade person to do your bidding!

[Wulfram]

Without being inflated, the number of high ranking humans are not that many in the first place. I'm not a big fan of affirmative action, intentionally include women just because instead of writing characters who happen to be men or happen to be women. Writers should be mindful of the gender and race diversity, but they should not be obligated to include them.

 

It takes an intentional effort to make a set of characters that reflect a society different from your own.  That's not affirmative action, that's simply a part of creating a fictional world.

 

And I don't know who has said they've got an obligation.  I'm just making a request, that they can grant if it fits with their vision for the game. Or very likely they're doing it anyway, and this whole thread is basically redundant.

[Battlebloodmage]

It takes an intentional effort to make a set of characters that reflect a society different from your own.  That's not affirmative action, that's simply a part of creating a fictional world.

Yes, a fictional world that is based on the writers' imaginative, not some bad fanfic that compromise the vision. As I said, if the writers want to write more females, it should be because they want to, not because they are obligated to. That's why I said writers should be mindful of race and gender but don't have to compromise that for PC. 

[In Exile]

Without being inflated, the number of high ranking humans are not that many in the first place. Only 4 that matters if you include Illusive Man. I'm not opposed people wanting more females. I'm in favor of it, but what I'm opposed is it being a requirement. Intentionally include women just because instead of writing characters who happen to be men or happen to be women. Writers should be mindful of the gender and race diversity, but they should not be obligated to include them if it's not the characters they want to create. 

 

Well, sure, but when gender is ultimately irrelevant to the role (what would change if the illusive man was the illusive woman?), there's a real question there as to why the writers keep wanting to write male characters when maleness isn't required. It's not about "enforcing" diversity, but rather about asking why a cast is not diverse. Of course, not everyone will agree whether a cast is or isn't diverse, and I tend to be of the view that it's not about numbers but showcasing. This is why, for example, DAO is actually open to criticism re: gender, because despite the world having a great deal of ostensibly powerful women, we rarely meet them.