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More high ranking human women please


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#726
Wulfram

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Actually, among prominent named characters there seems to be a great number of non-white people.
 
Caucasian 
 
Default Shepard
Miranda
Hackett
Joker
Zaeed?
Cpt. Bailey
Illusive Man
Jack
 
 
Non-White
 
Ashley
Kaiden
Anderson
Udina?
Jacob
Kasumi Goto
Steve Cortez
James Vega
Traynor
Kai Leng


Well, that's still a long way from the current make up of Earth, let alone the likely future make up of earth based on current trends. Particularly since you're using a rather broad definition of non-white

#727
animedreamer

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I don't really agree with the idea of doing it for the sake of doing it.

 

It's the military. It's a predominantly male field. It always has been, and it likely always will be. The reason? Not nearly as many women join the military as much as men do. Hence, you're more likely to get high ranking men than you are women.

 

It seems like false egalitarianism and inclusiveness to put so many women at so many levels. It's arbitrary.

I cannot agree with this enough, (Is this topic still about whether or not women should be forced into positions? I'll pretend that it is, so that im not late to the party.)

 

Do not ask developers to put things in simply to satisfy the smallest niche of the fan base. Ask yourself TC what does the story gain from forcing such a character into the game? What is she doing that a man couldn't do? or a robot, if there isn't a clear answer let it be left up to the writers to decide who is what, and why. This game has to appeal to every region it might be sold in, not just American. The fact that you got to play a Female Soldier has highly decorated as Shepard is groundbreaking to begin with, as until recently in real life Women weren't even allowed into certain branches of the military, hell some couldn't even get jobs in highly physical demanding jobs like Fire Fighter, or Construction (usually because of physical requirements being harder to obtain for women sue to size and strength.)

 

Besides BioWare has a nice track record of strong female characters throughout their library, i think they know what they are doing when it comes to story and people need to remember that, one game's ending does not undo all the games they've made where gender wasn't what decided who was capable of what. Flemeth is a powerful female character and she garners respect everytime she appears in a DA Game. Liara is the top of field in knowledge on the Protheans, a highly regarded Scientist, Master Biotic, and becomes the Shadow Broker a woman who commands legions of spies, and could humble most worlds with but few well places favors.

 

BioWare will do what they think is necessary to make the kind of story they want to tell, trust in the developers to write the story that brought you to love their games in the first place.



#728
Fixers0

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Actually, among prominent named characters there seems to be a great number of non-white people.

 

Caucasian 

 

Default Shepard

Miranda

Hackett

Joker

Zaeed?

Cpt. Bailey

Illusive Man

Jack

 

 

Non-White

 

Ashley

Kaiden

Anderson

Udina?

Jacob

Kasumi Goto

Steve Cortez

James Vega

Traynor

Kai Leng

 

Udina and Ashley are most definitely Caucasian and Alenko is an Ukrainian surname, so I count him as caucasian to.

 

With that said there's still a large quantity of slightly less important bust still prominent npc's that are white, Jenkins, Chakwas, Dr Michel, Wilson, General Petrovsky, Engineer Adams, Navigator Pressly, Donnely, Daniels, Kelly Chambers, Major Coats, Henry Lawson, etc.



#729
Kmaru

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What is the race issue is doing on this topic about high ranked women?

I'm glad that ME series is so diverse, who cares about more white, more blacks, more yellow as far as they are a bit of everybody???? Seriously? As reminder Kaiden is from Canada in the game.

 

About the topic itself i support the idea of high ranked woman in ME:A at 200%



#730
SnakeCode

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Well, that's still a long way from the current make up of Earth, let alone the likely future make up of earth based on current trends. Particularly since you're using a rather broad definition of non-white

 

Broad definition? I didn't realise there are different levels of non-whiteness, I assumed that you are either white or you aren't. My bad, must be my white privilege showing. I should really check it.


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#731
Panda

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I'd guess that Kaidan is bi-racial, idk about Ashley really, she can be bi-racial as well or then white. Zaeed's name suggest that he isn't white to me. Anyways I think race isn't big concept in time of ME when most of humans are mix of races and ethnicities and there is alien species around to be racist over..



#732
Wulfram

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Broad definition? I didn't realise there are different levels of non-whiteness, I assumed that you are either white or you aren't. My bad, must be my white privilege showing. I should really check it.


I'm not saying your definition is wrong. It's entirely subjective and different cultures and different people define things differently

#733
Lady Artifice

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Yeah, funny how this happened. :D

But they are,

They are what? Not a different world? Not a different time? Not a fictional version of a non U.S. affiliated military?

because the writers whether deliberate or not were based by real-life militaries when they wrote the Systems Alliance navy and the people that serve in it. Just have to face it that Mass Effect is highly influenced by contemporary western society,just as how most of character in Mass Effect are caucasian the vast majority of Generals and high ranking politcians are going to be male.

I can bring myself to face that, sure, with the stipulation that it's more influenced by Canadian culture than it is American, and that it can be highly influenced by contemporary culture while leaving the writers free to make pretty much any adjustments they please, because of the handy fact that it's a science fiction story taking place far in the future. They could have instead written a post apocalyptic story where women are back to being chattel, or they could have written a story where--due to a severe underpopulation issue--women are legally required to strive to have children every several years.

They can do anything they please, even have human culture magically locked in a state of permastasis between 2015 and 2186 CE. They didn't though, they wrote a story where gender standards have changed within the context of the universe. What OP is asking for, is that what we observe in the game matches their own lore.

Myself, personally, I'm not concerned about it. I'm trusting the Devs on this one. I think they'll probably have integrated the lore with the setting on their own.

Are people now saying prostitutes are unrealistic or something?


No, no one said that.
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#734
In Exile

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Are people now saying prostitutes are unrealistic or something?


People are saying prominently displayed street prostitutes are unrealistic. And they are. If ME has legal prostitution - and seeing the Consort, they might - then you'd find brothels (which are infinitely safer for the men and women working). And if it was illegal - in hives of villany - you'd also see brothels. Street prostitution is a function of a very particular kind of social/economic environment, and in particular poverty and criminalisation of prostitution.
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#735
In Exile

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I'm not saying your definition is wrong. It's entirely subjective and different cultures and different people define things differently


"Whiteness" is a nonsense qualifier. Look at early-English attitudes. Benjamin Franklin, for example, lamented how hard it was to keep America white, away from the influence of non-whites like the Swedes (!!), Russians (!!!) and Germans (!!!!!).

Different cultures also have different standard.

#736
Fixers0

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They can do anything they please, even have human culture magically locked in a state of permastasis between 2015 and 2186 CE. They didn't though, they wrote a story where gender standards have changed within the context of the universe. What OP is asking for, is that what we observe in the game matches their own lore. 

 

But is that really so, or is that just what you want to believe? You're putting it like Bioware is breaking their lore by not having any high ranking females prominently featured yet, as I pointed out earlier the vast majority of military characters in Mass Effect are male, when it comes to named characters though, there are proportionally more female characters than male characters, that flag-ranked female characters are not often featured is just a consequence of the military being still a very male-dominated field. 



#737
In Exile

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But is that really so, or is that just what you want to believe? You're putting it like Bioware is breaking their lore by not having any high ranking females prominently featured yet, as I pointed out earlier the vast majority of military characters in Mass Effect are male, when it comes to named characters though, there are proportionally more female characters than male characters, that flag-ranked female characters are not often featured is just a consequence of the military being still a very male-dominated field.


I'm just not seeing proof that the vast majority of military - and fighting - characters we meet are male. Ignoring the races that don't have female models, we see a pretty fair and even split of men and women in military roles in ME1, ME2 and ME3. In fact in ME1 I'm pretty sure we meet more soldier (or combat oriented) female NPCs than we do men.

#738
AlanC9

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Even if true, that just moves the problem to the way Bio's depicting the lower ranks.

#739
X Equestris

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If there's 3 admirals/generals in the game and 1 of them is a woman, yeah -- that would seem like crazy social justice warrior token women added to the game because women in those roles would be overrepresented by ~5x as I mentioned earlier.
 
If anything, it seems like women are already overrepresented in Mass Effect admirals/generals as-is with 1-2 of several of them being women.
 
Looks like what Bioware needs now is more MALE generals and admirals and fewer high ranked women, if it changes gender dynamics at all.


Sample sizes don't need to be perfectly reflective of a whole's demographics. By your logic, a female admiral having a meeting with two male admirals in the real world is over representation, even though such a thing can easily happen.

Having one out of three admirals that make a physical appearance be a woman isn't over representation, because the rest of military still exists offscreen. Not to mention that holding a future, fictional military to the exact ratios of males to females the U.S. military currently has is ridiculous. Societies change over time, and it wasn't that long ago that there were no women who were admirals or generals in the US military.
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#740
SolNebula

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Ahh it would be neat as hell if they include a very important female general only to make her screw the strategy so bad that got half of the men under her command killed.

 

Then in a random conversation when you walk around her base you hear one of her commander commenting "Damned gender quotas!"

 

I would probably laugh for an entire year.

 

Ehh a man can dream.....



#741
Han Shot First

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Ahh it would be neat as hell if they include a very important female general only to make her screw the strategy so bad that got half of the men under her command killed.

 

Then in a random conversation when you walk around her base you hear one of her commander commenting "Damned gender quotas!"

 

I would probably laugh for an entire year.

 

Ehh a man can dream.....

 

What would her gender have to do with the incompetence however? As far as I know, a penis isn't used in the formulation of tactics or strategy. 


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#742
SolNebula

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What would her gender have to do with the incompetence however? As far as I know, a penis isn't used in the formulation of tactics or strategy. 

 

Just to make people mad. :) simple as it is. I could ask the same question why more vagina is advocated in the formulation of tactics and strategy?

 

The entire gender issue is simply ridiculous.


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#743
Cknarf

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I only support this if the high ranking women are white. But identify as black men.  But at the same time, they're still totally chicks. Or they're not. Used to be.  They're totally dudes now. And then they're all bisexual, that way either male or female protagonists can romance them.

 

I also want a trans krogan squadmate who identifies a female salarian-turian hybrid. Or something.  I don't know. He'll still have a quad. I think.


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#744
9TailsFox

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I only support this if the high ranking women are white. But identify as black men.  But at the same time, they're still totally chicks. Or they're not. Used to be.  They're totally dudes now. And then they're all bisexual, that way either male or female protagonists can romance them.

 

I also want a trans krogan squadmate who identifies a female salarian-turian hybrid. Or something.  I don't know. He'll still have a quad. I think.

I feel offended you didn't include Vorche, Quarian and Geth. You are racist and you should feel bad.



#745
SolNebula

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I feel offended you didn't include Vorche, Quarian and Geth. You are racist and you should feel bad.

 

Pre-order cancelled if I don't get my trans-Geth romance with pink lights and armor. :P ohhh man!



#746
In Exile

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Just to make people mad. :) simple as it is. I could ask the same question why more vagina is advocated in the formulation of tactics and strategy?

The entire gender issue is simply ridiculous.


It's not. So why do you care if an admiral or general is a woman?

#747
SolNebula

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It's not. So why do you care if an admiral or general is a woman?

 

Why do you care if it is a woman?



#748
In Exile

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Why do you care if it is a woman?


I enjoy diversity: physical, visual, voice. I don't care about alleged realism (which claims I'm not persuaded by anyway). A female admiral (and thus voiced by e.g. Laura Bailey, Claudia Black, Indira Varma etc.) would be, to me, a good NPC. Since this has been a military oriented setting, and we meet a lot of the top brass, to get the kind of diversity I want to see it means female admirals (or generals, or colonels, or [insert whatever rank]).
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#749
Lady Artifice

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People are saying prominently displayed street prostitutes are unrealistic. And they are. If ME has legal prostitution - and seeing the Consort, they might - then you'd find brothels (which are infinitely safer for the men and women working). And if it was illegal - in hives of villany - you'd also see brothels. Street prostitution is a function of a very particular kind of social/economic environment, and in particular poverty and criminalisation of prostitution.


They do, at least in some parts of the galaxy. One of the prequels has Saren doing his secret agent thing in one with numerous species available to the patrons.

Multi species space brothels in Andromeda, anyone?

#750
Jaquio

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Well, I have a CNN article here that indicates around ~7% of the generals/admirals in the US military are women. So... out of 10 admirals/generals in Mass Effect, if we're going to go by the way things are IRL in the US military, less than 1 in 10 of them should be women.

 

That's not zero, but it's close enough to zero that Bioware could easily write a story featuring 3-5 generals/admirals while having all of them be male, and this scenario would be fairly realistic by current military standards in the USA.

 

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2...ance/index.html

 

So if Bioware made a game where there were 3 generals and one of them was a woman like the SJWs want... that would probably seem like they put her there just because she's a woman, because that would be a situation where ~33% of in game generals are women, while in real life only ~7% of generals are women.  So women would be overrepresented in that case by a factor of ~5x!

 

So for there to be 2-3 generals/admirals present in Mass Effect and that they're all males... that's actually a very likely outcome in terms of the gender statistics for the military.

 

Looks like the facts don't match your social justice warrior feminist pipe dream!

 

Fun fact:  The US Navy has more admirals than ships.

 

If we want to go the realism route, we should have to deal with a bloated bureaucracy that has admirals all over the Citadel filing paperwork, attending meetings, and hanging around waiting to see Sha'ira.


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