930 réponses à ce sujet

[Mystlock]

Bioware arranged for some of the most amazing personal characteristics to The Illusive Man. Though he was falling deathly ill with indoctrination and a fantasy for the Human Race you couldn't help but respect his aura of power and grim determination whenever you talked with him. I think females in Mass Effect have a lot of important roles to play and sure, it'd be great to position more females in more Dead-Seriously-Brimming-With-Reputation roles like the Illusive Man. The kind of people who make you grateful that you're not the focus of their anger. (Unless they really are like the Illusive man, gone from you for the wrong reasons)

[Battlebloodmage]

Successful leaders of any gender are rare in Dragon Age, and only really in the gift of the protagonist. (Bhelan, Anora, Alistair, Celene, Gaspard)

 

Duncan is Warden-Commander of Fereldan, just like Warden-Commander Clarel.  Loghain is very much the ruler of Fereldan, which is why Anora needs to rely on the protagonist to bring him down.

No, Loghain has no desire to rule, the one who handles all the countries and dealing with nobles is Anora, Loghain only deals with military which is no different from a general, he's not a ruler. By pure ranking, Anora outranks him. Anora needs others to bring him down because she can't find a reason to, as he is fighting in the name of Ferelden, she can't out, in the public's eyes, a loyal subject (not to mention her father) fighting to stop the blight without damage the relationship with the nobles which already been pretty rocky.

[Wulfram]

No, Loghain has no desire to rule, the one who handles all the countries and dealing with nobles is Anora, Loghain only deals with military which is no different from a general, he's not a ruler. By pure ranking, Anora outranks him.

 

Loghain is the one who addresses the Bannorn, driving them into rebellion.  Loghain over-rules Anora when Anora suggests allying with Orlais.  Loghain refuses to step down after Anora denounces him at the landsmeet.

 

Loghain is Regent, ruling in Anora's place.  If he was subordinate to Anora, the whole Landsmeet plot would be superfluous.

[Battlebloodmage]

Bioware arranged for some of the most amazing personal characteristics to The Illusive Man. Though he was falling deathly ill with indoctrination and a fantasy for the Human Race you couldn't help but respect his aura of power and grim determination whenever you talked with him. I think females in Mass Effect have a lot of important roles to play and sure, it'd be great to position more females in more Dead-Seriously-Brimming-With-Reputation roles like the Illusive Man. The kind of people who make you grateful that you're not the focus of their anger. (Unless they really are like the Illusive man, gone from you for the wrong reasons)

Yup, there are a lot of females with prominent roles in the game, if that person happens to be female, good, otherwise, good as well. Forcing that person to be female is hypocritical and self-interest, no difference from the people who don't want females in position of power. People need to stop dressing topics as wanting equality as much as wanting their groups to be better represented. Otherwise, they wouldn't make these topics in the first place. As one group getting representation, another group being ignored. I personally don't care about gender, so looking this from an objective standpoint, both sides, males and females, are self-interested at the end of the day. 

[SolNebula]

Leave the writers free to do what they think is best and to design the characters they want the way they prefer. Art needs to be free otherwise is just propaganda.

[Former_Fiend]

Leave the writers free to do what they think is best and to design the characters they want the way they prefer. Art needs to be free otherwise is just propaganda.

 

More or less I agree with this.

 

But I wonder, hypothetically if Bioware independently came to the decision to make several of the high ranking human characters female because those are the characters they wanted to design, if there isn't a significant portion of the BSN who wouldn't accuse them, or at least think that they did it only to appease  the "SJW"/political correctness crowd. There are some posters here who can't seem to fathom that the good people at Bioware might just want to go in a direction on there own.

 

I mentioned this in the transgender romance thread that popped up a while back; something I notice in any inclusion threads is a cry of people being against inclusion for inclusion's sake. And to an extent, I agree with that mentality; I don't want the writers working to make a quota of minorities because I believe when they're including characters for those reasons they don't have a passion in them and the writing tends to suffer. 

 

But there are those who seem opposed to having anymore than the bare minimum, token inclusion. We've had black, white, Chinese, Indian, and latino characters, so in their minds Bioware should never include any other ethnicity because doing so is "inclusion for inclusion's sake".  In the trans thread I mentioned, the only reason to include a trans character in their mind was 'inclusion for inclusion's sake'. Here, same thing.

 

There is a point I can recognize where it starts hurting the quality of the game. I don't necessarily see this request as that point, unless Bioware were to take those high ranking women and make the fact that they're women a big deal in a way that's waving a sign that says "Hey, look how progressive we are!"

[SolNebula]

More or less I agree with this.

 

But I wonder, hypothetically if Bioware independently came to the decision to make several of the high ranking human characters female because those are the characters they wanted to design, if there isn't a significant portion of the BSN who wouldn't accuse them, or at least think that they did it only to appease  the "SJW"/political correctness crowd. There are some posters here who can't seem to fathom that the good people at Bioware might just want to go in a direction on there own.

 

I mentioned this in the transgender romance thread that popped up a while back; something I notice in any inclusion threads is a cry of people being against inclusion for inclusion's sake. And to an extent, I agree with that mentality; I don't want the writers working to make a quota of minorities because I believe when they're including characters for those reasons they don't have a passion in them and the writing tends to suffer. 

 

But there are those who seem opposed to having anymore than the bare minimum, token inclusion. We've had black, white, Chinese, Indian, and latino characters, so in their minds Bioware should never include any other ethnicity because doing so is "inclusion for inclusion's sake".  In the trans thread I mentioned, the only reason to include a trans character in their mind was 'inclusion for inclusion's sake'. Here, same thing.

 

There is a point I can recognize where it starts hurting the quality of the game. I don't necessarily see this request as that point, unless Bioware were to take those high ranking women and make the fact that they're women a big deal in a way that's waving a sign that says "Hey, look how progressive we are!"

 

You bring valid points I guess for me it really depends on how it's going to develop. If they make everything feels natural like these women got there because of their merits and skills (depicted in the game) then I'm fine for them being there but as you stated if they put them there just to be nice and progressive and the entire things feels like a sjw appeasing strategy then I'm opposed to it. Same is for everything else. It should feel like the writer wanted to be like that, and trust me you feel these kind of things when you are reading/playing a creative material.

[Panda]

I did thread for alien female of lack of them discussion: http://forum.bioware...n-women-please/

 

So I guess I can now stop highjacking this thread about it, sry bout that

[Former_Fiend]

You bring valid points I guess for me it really depends on how it's going to develop. If they make everything feels natural like these women got there because of their merits and skills (depicted in the game) then I'm fine for them being there but as you stated if they put them there just to be nice and progressive and the entire things feels like a sjw appeasing strategy then I'm opposed to it. Same is for everything else. It should feel like the writer wanted to be like that, and trust me you feel these kind of things when you are reading/playing a creative material.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I get that mentality.

 

What I don't get is the mentality that, if they include anything else, if they have anymore representation in these games, then that's a surrender. It's a defeat. It's giving something up, in that player's mind.

 

I understand that people don't like losing. They don't like sacrificing. They don't like compromising. I just don't see how this qualifies, but there definitely seems to be a part of the fan base who sees every character who isn't some combination of straight, white, and sporting a Y chromosome as something that's been taken from them to appease someone else.

 

And that's what I don't understand. 

Modifié par Former_Fiend, 13 août 2015 - 01:34 .

[SolNebula]

I still believe good old Tolkien (despite what many people believe) back in the days wrote IMO one of the most compelling and interesting female character that was made and she is Eowyn. A proud and strong princess that combined in a perfect blend being feminine but also a warrior of strenght and courage. Heck she even destroyed the the Witch King. I wish she was used more as the perfect example of how a realistic female character is done. She is easily my favorite character in the entire LotR trilogy.

[FKA_Servo]

I still believe good old Tolkien (despite what many people believe) back in the days wrote IMO one of the most compelling and interesting female character that was made and she is Eowyn. A proud and strong princess that combined in a perfect blend being feminine but also a warrior of strenght and courage. Heck she even destroyed the the Witch King. I wish she was used more as the perfect example of how a realistic female character is done. She is easily my favorite character in the entire LotR trilogy.

 

Well, this explains a lot, at any rate.

[SolNebula]

Well, this explains a lot, at any rate.

 

Explain what? care to share? Just hope it's not one anti-Tolkien rant....

[FKA_Servo]

Explain what? care to share?

 

It's not your chosen example specifically so much as the notion that you think Tolkien ever once wrote a single relatable human character (although when you have to dramatically expand the role of certain women - or invent new characters out of whole cloth - when adapting the story, maybe that's not be best example to go to, anyway).

 

Tolkien drew maps and made languages - everything outside of his world building (characters, dialogue, plot, emotions) is pretty friggin' grade school.

 

I say this having ten or more readings of The Hobbit/LoTR under my belt.

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

I still believe good old Tolkien (despite what many people believe) back in the days wrote IMO one of the most compelling and interesting female character that was made and she is Eowyn. A proud and strong princess that combined in a perfect blend being feminine but also a warrior of strenght and courage. Heck she even destroyed the the Witch King. I wish she was used more as the perfect example of how a realistic female character is done. She is easily my favorite character in the entire LotR trilogy.

Eowyn was one of of my favorites too, but you do realize that Tolkien (and most literary analysts) ascribe to Eowyn the characteristics not of a hero by choice, but by circumstance and destiny?  Eowyn's own desire was to self-destruct; first when trapped by Grima Wyrmtongue, then when seeing her family go off to war and being told she could not die with them, once more when her uncle died at the hand of the Witch King, and lastly when held in the House of Healing.  She is brittle iron, not steel, and most annotations do not hold her up to be a 'strong' or 'courageous' character, but rather a desperate one in love with the idea of death.

 

I love her still, but it's not hard to look past the surface of the character and see how she was written by Tolkien to be contrasted with other more spiritually resilient and heroically "Christian" characters of the saga.

[SolNebula]

It's not your chosen example so much as the notion that you think Tolkien ever once wrote a single relatable human character (although when you have to dramatically expand the role of certain women - or invent new characters out of whole cloth - when adapting the story, maybe that's not be best example to go to, anyway).

 

Tolkien drew maps and made languages - everything outside of his world building (characters, dialogue, plot, emotions) is pretty friggin' grade school.

 

I say this having ten or more readings of The Hobbit/LoTR under my belt.

 

Well I disagree with the bolded part I still think he remains one of the best author out there. IMO most of the fantasy books nowadays are shallow replication of this masterpiece. It's a matter of preference I guess, I see much more depth in his characters than in any other creative works I've read in the last couple of years.

 

Eowyn was one of of my favorites too, but you do realize that Tolkien (and most literary analysts) ascribe to Eowyn the characteristics not of a hero by choice, but by circumstance and destiny?  Eowyn's own desire was to self-destruct; first when trapped by Grima Wyrmtongue, then when seeing her family go off to war and being told she could not die with them, once more when her uncle died at the hand of the Witch King, and lastly when held in the House of Healing.  She is brittle iron, not steel, and most annotations do not hold her up to be a 'strong' or 'courageous' character, but rather a desperate one in love with the idea of death.

 

I love her still, but it's not hard to look past the surface of the character and see how she was written by Tolkien to be contrasted with other more spiritually resilient and heroically "Christian" characters of the saga.

 

Believe it or not that's exactly why she is my favorite character because she wasn't meant to be spiritually strong or with super-natural power but her courage and desire to matter in the war (desperation if you will) made her strong, made her equal to the other heroes and even better because she defeated the Witch King where no other wiser and powerful character like Gandalf was able to.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I remember lots of women in positions of power.

[Wulfram]

Eowyn is a character that made sense in her setting - one where women are expected to stay home while the men go off to fight.

 

I'm asking for characters that reflect the setting of Mass Effect, where women going off to fight is almost as common as men.

 

Shepard taking off her helmet and revealing herself to be a man wouldn't make sense in the setting, because there'd be no basis for assuming that she was a man.

[MissMayhem96]

Human female as primary antagonist.

 

Yes. This would be amazing ^^

[Sartoz]

                                                                        <<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>

 

Frankly, I have no idea why this topic was ever created.

 

Let me explain. 

Bio is known for their rich story driven game universes, or so they say.  Does anyone here, when buying a book (detective, action, spy, thriller..etc) check out if the story contains a politically correct, non sexist, equal number of genders,  etc...etc)? Answer is NO!... One buys books for the story or story genre. One also buys a book because some like the author's past stories and feel confident their next one will not disappoint.

 

In this case, Bio is the author of ME:A and fans will buy it based on their preference for the author, story genre or a combination of both. Many here go nuts if spoilers are given out. Well, that means you buy the game as is, on faith. Faith for Bio's ability to create a game worth your money.

 

Politically correct nut jobs are not my favorite people. They have a virus like Reality Distortion zeal about them.

 

So, again, why is the topic even here?

 

 

 

 

[General TSAR]

The reason that most superiors in the army and navy are men has nothing to do with sexism. Men and women are different and make different life choices. Significantly less women are willing to enlist than men. Unless you want to force women to join the army and climb the ranks, you'll always see more male superior officers than female superior officers.

To suggest that BioWare or Mass Effect is sexist because it doesn't have as many female superior officers is quite laughable at best.

Thank you.

 

I'm reminded of an article on Stars and Stripes where someone is complaining about the lack of minorities in America's shadow warriors and a recruiter notes that the reason for that isn't because of discrimination or racism or what have you, but rather because a lot of minority recruits just don't want to to do it and prefer other military occupations.

 

Sometimes, people just don't want to do it and unless the Alliance becomes a universal conscription based service who cares more about PCness than fighting capability, men will still significantly outnumber women as flag officers. 

[The Heretic of Time]

Could be worse - tell me if this makes any sense to you:

 

 

 

Mammary glands being a defining feature of well... mammals

 

It's an alien....

I actually really like that design. Very original and much more alien then the humans-in-costumes "aliens" that we have in Mass Effect.

[Wulfram]

 

So, again, why is the topic even here?

 

Because I think having some high ranking human women would make the world more consistent and better, thus improving the game in some small way at no cost.

 

edit:  If you think this is trivial subject, and the gender of such characters in the game is trivial for you, then that's a perfectly reasonable position to take.  But, then, I have to ask why you're bothering posting in this thread?  It won't affect anything you'll care about.

[The Heretic of Time]

Dragon Age Inquisition did a good job of having females in positions of power, so I can assume this will be extended to ME:A.

 

Hopefully they actually show females of the new races unlike most races in ME1....

 

The people saying 'UGH STOP CREATING PROBLEMS WHAT IS THE GAME SEXIST IF THERE ARE MORE MEN MEN ARE JUST BIOLOGICALLY BETTER AT SHOOTING GUNS' or whatever, in the mass effect universe there are a lot of female soldiers, just not many in high up positions, which is odd.

 

It's not odd. To become a soldier you already need to be in top physical and top mental health. Many women don't pass the screening test for that. 

Some women do barely pass the vetting but they're usually not fit enough for frontline warfare. Women are often assigned support roles because that's the only thing they're physically capable of.

To become a superior officer in the army or navy, you need to have first-hand combat experience and capable of leading a squad into front line assaults. Women aren't capable of that.

 

So basically, women barely have what it takes to even enlist, nevermind climb the ranks and become superior officers. Men are more suited for that. It's not sexism, it's just the "harsh" truth. Don't be angry at me for saying it as it is, be angry at mother nature for evolving women to be weaker and less capable of physical combat than men. Better yet, don't be angry at all because it's simply not something you can change, ever. So being angry about this is simply a waste of time and energy.

Just accept that women aren't capable of becoming superior officers and move on. Women are good at other things.

 

Edit: To add to this. Even if bio-engineering and augmentations that Alliance soldiers undergo would somehow level the playing field between men and women (which isn't stated in the lore or codex, but lets pretend that this is the case), that still doesn't account for choice. Men and women have different preferences and make different life choices. Women in general are less eager to join the military and climb the ranks than men are.

[AlanC9]

Some women do barely pass the vetting but they're usually not fit enough for frontline warfare. Women are often assigned support roles because that's the only thing they're physically capable of.

Is this known to be still true in the MEU?

To become a superior officer in the army or navy, you need to have first-hand combat experience and capable of leading a squad into front line assaults. Women aren't capable of that.

Why isn't that true for the Navy?

Just accept that women aren't capable of becoming superior officers and move on. Women are good at other things.

What counts as a "superior officer" here, anyway? Getting a star or four is possible, since it's been done.

[Kappa Neko]

I agree that the trend of slapping boobs on everything, including beings that look like lizards and such, to make it look female is pretty absurd and lacks imagination.

I doubt it's lack of imagination. Sex sells. Simple as that.

 

That's why aliens are almost always humanoid. Especially the ones that can be romanced. Unless one has a furry fetish, most people need some sort of resemblance to the human physique to find a character attractive. So it's boobs and hips.

 

And let's be honest, the most popular characters are usually the most attractive. So the art department is probably told to come up with something mildly alien but sexy. Asari is perfect. Drell have human bodies too but their heads are about as alien as you can go before it gets too weird. Krogan sexy? Uh, no. Turian? Maybe the males because of their voices... but to me they already crossed the line with them. Not touching those sharp raptor faces. Turian women? Don't think so, either. I loved Nyreen but she looked like a burn victim or cancer patient... funny though how much they tried to add some sort of sex appeal to her, even though that went against lore. But again, sexy trumps logic or creativity every time.

 

Is that sad? I dunno. I don't particularly mind tbh.