930 réponses à ce sujet

[The Heretic of Time]

1) Is this known to be still true in the MEU?


2) Why isn't that true for the Navy?


3) What counts as a "superior officer" here, anyway? Getting a star or four is possible, since it's been done.

 

1) Unless bio-augmentation somehow manages to level the playing field between men and women (which I doubt) then yes, this is probably still true in the MEU.

2) I don't know what it takes to become a commanding officer or admiral in the navy. I was talking about the army because the Alliance has more in common with the army (don't let the navy ranks and names fool you, the command structure and methods of operation of the Alliance is much more similar to the army or marine corps than to the navy).

3) Any rank that is higher than Shepard's.

[Wulfram]

 

Edit: To add to this. Even if bio-engineering and augmentations that Alliance soldiers undergo would somehow level the playing field between men and women (which isn't stated in the lore or codex, but lets pretend that this is the case), that still doesn't account for choice. Men and women have different preferences and make different life choices. Women in general are less eager to join the military and climb the ranks than men are.

 

The evidence from the lower ranks suggests that while women are slightly less likely to join the military, the disparity at lower ranks is not so great as to justify the disparity at higher ranks.

 

For example, going by the named characters on the SSV Normandy the ratio is around 2 men for every woman.  If that was reflected in admirals, while civilian leaders were closer to 50/50, that would be basically fine.  But it's not, and those female admirals that are mentioned are kept in extremely minor roles, and the civilian posts aseem more male dominated than the military.

[The Heretic of Time]

The evidence from the lower ranks suggests that while women are slightly less likely to join the military, the disparity at lower ranks is not so great as to justify the disparity at higher ranks.

 

For example, going by the named characters on the SSV Normandy the ratio is around 2 men for every woman.  If that was reflected in admirals, while civilian leaders were closer to 50/50, that would be basically fine.  But it's not, and those female admirals that are mentioned are kept in extremely minor roles, and the civilian posts aseem more male dominated than the military.

 

It is completely justified.

 

Even if through bio-augmentation women are willing and capable of enlisting, that doesn't mean they're capable or even willing to climb the ranks. Men are not only physically more capable than women, they're often more ambitious than women. Hence you see men climbing the ranks faster and higher than women.

 

It's no different in real life. The fact that more men are in leadership positions than women as nothing to do with sexism and everything to do with the difference between men and women, both physically and in terms of preferences and life-defining choices.

[StealthGamer92]

I don't care, and I 100% truely honestly don't think it matter's in any medium wether book's movies or game's unless you're just looking for reason's to complain since a few voice's on a forum or website or petition will never change a corprate suit's mind this late in the process.

[The_Shade]

I wonder, is rank truly OP's only concern here?

 

Bioware could include more high ranking women in their Mass Effect games but, what if those women happened to fall into the damsel in the distress category? The sort that are vulnerable, have low self-esteem and almost always rely on others in problematic moments. In a surprise twist, I anticipate that a large proportion of the proponents for more high ranking women in Mass Effect games would be inexplicable dissatisfied with their inclusion. Subsequently, they will demand something else. Specific personalities for female characters. 

 

I could be wrong though. 

[The Heretic of Time]

I wonder, is rank truly OP's only concern here?

 

Bioware could include more high ranking women in their Mass Effect games but, what if those women happened to fall into the damsel in the distress category? The sort that are vulnerable, have low self-esteem and almost always rely on others in problematic moments. In a surprise twist, I anticipate that a large proportion of the proponents for more high ranking women in Mass Effect games would be inexplicable dissatisfied with their inclusion. Subsequently, they will demand something else. Specific personalities for female characters. 

 

I could be wrong though. 

 

I don't see people with self-esteem issues who always rely on others becoming high-ranking officers. That seems quite contradictory and highly unrealistic.

[Pasquale1234]

Is this known to be still true in the MEU?

Given the genetic engineering, cybernetic enhancements, computer controlled everything, ultra-light materials, etc., along with the fact that the Alliance is primarily concerned with space warfare, I'm not sure any of the old standards would apply.

Most of the actual combat we see in the series is ground-based due to the primarily shooter game mechanics. What we don't see in-game are the effects of different planetary gravity, pressure, and other environmental differences. Realistically, they may have entirely different squads, equipment, tactics for ground combat in high-gravity / pressure versus low-gravity / pressure worlds - like using biotic teams on high-gravity worlds? Jump jet boots?

And that's the other thing - the kinds of combat they're dealing with has changed a great deal with the introduction of biotics, for one. They would be no longer trying to kill enemy humans, but enemy aliens with very different physiology and capabilities.

Considering the culture and military of 200 years ago compared to today's - I think it's pretty short-sighted to assume it wouldn't be any different 200 years (or more) into the future.

[AlanC9]

1) Unless bio-augmentation somehow manages to level the playing field between men and women (which I doubt) then yes, this is probably still true in the MEU.

"Level" is not really the right criterion. All it would have to do is close the gap somewhat to change the percentages from what we have today.

2) I don't know what it takes to become a commanding officer or admiral in the navy. I was talking about the army because the Alliance has more in common with the army (don't let the navy ranks and names fool you, the command structure and methods of operation of the Alliance is much more similar to the army or marine corps than to the navy).

And yet all three services have female generals or admirals. Today. Right now.

3) Any rank that is higher than Shepard's.

So when you said "women aren't capable of becoming superior officers," "aren't capable" is ... silly overstatement? Bad rhetoric? Massive confusion on your part? The literal meaning is nonsense.

[Former_Fiend]

I don't care, and I 100% truely honestly don't think it matter's in any medium wether book's movies or game's unless you're just looking for reason's to complain since a few voice's on a forum or website or petition will never change a corprate suit's mind this late in the process.

 

If you don't care and it doesn't matter, that would mean there's no reason not to do it.

[SnakeCode]

Sure, whatever. Doesn't really affect the game in any way except for a bit of self gratification for those with a vested interest in this. As long as it doesn't become like Inquisition where men in positions of power are more endangered than black rhinos.

[Battlebloodmage]

Sure, whatever. Doesn't really affect the game in any way except for a bit of self gratification for those with a vested interest in this. As long as it doesn't become like Inquisition where men in positions of power are more endangered than black rhinos.

This, almost every high leaders you encounter were females. The game seems to be focused on straight females just as ME is focused on straight males. I guess each series has their own target. From what I observed, some of the women argue for this kind of inclusion don't see how DA series favored them while the same goes for men with ME series. There is a sense of privilege from both sides of the argument. I don't mind if people complaining about lacking in certain representation but complaining about the lack of representation in one game but not the other is just self interest and not at all about equality. 

[Larry-3]

I am not sexiest, but we are going to a different galactic disk... are there even humans -- let alone female humans -- over there?

[Former_Fiend]

Personally the distribution in DAI didn't bother me at all. I can certainly imagine how it might have if handled poorly, but honestly, even though I was aware of it going in, I hardly noticed in the game itself because I thought of each of them as an individual character instead of grouping them together as "leaders". 

 

At any rate, I don't think this thread is asking for a majority of the ranking humans to be female, just more than we've seen.

[StealthGamer92]

If you don't care and it doesn't matter, that would mean there's no reason not to do it.

Just as there's no reason to do it in the first place. My argument was more "let Bioware make their game and let complainer's make their's"...oh wait they won't they never do and so thing's stay the same.

[Battlebloodmage]

I am not sexiest, but we are going to a different galactic disk... are there even humans -- let alone female humans -- over there?

I'm guessing there would still be humans from the expedition. The protagonists are humans, so I'm guessing quite a number would be humans as well. I don't see a lot of high ranking members would join the expedition. Most of them would probably be soldiers and their ranks would be 1-3 above each other.

[Former_Fiend]

I am not sexiest, but we are going to a different galactic disk... are there even humans -- let alone female humans -- over there?

 

I imagine this thread refers to the ones we'll be bringing with us. And if we're going for the long haul, which all signs point to, then bringing female would be rather imperative to the whole, sustainability thing.

 

If anything, looking at it by the cold numbers, leave all the men behind and just bring plenty of sperm samples and equipment for invitro fertilization would be a good way to maximize space and the breeding population. But I doubt whoever's in charge is going to get so coldly mathematics as that. Besides, would be better to bring along the men in case the samples or equipment fail.

[Battlebloodmage]

Personally the distribution in DAI didn't bother me at all. I can certainly imagine how it might have if handled poorly, but honestly, even though I was aware of it going in, I hardly noticed in the game itself because I thought of each of them as an individual character instead of grouping them together as "leaders". 

 

At any rate, I don't think this thread is asking for a majority of the ranking humans to be female, just more than we've seen.

Asides from minor characters that I don't even remember, the only high ranking prominent roles are Hackett, Udina, and Anderson. TIM is a leader of the terrorist. There are not many really high rankings in the game in the first place though. Counting Shepard's mom and Ashley/Kaidan, the ratio would have been 4-2. Those are the prominent roles, not random 5 seconds appearance we don't even know their name bringing in to inflate the number. 

[The Heretic of Time]

1) "Level" is not really the right criterion. All it would have to do is close the gap somewhat to change the percentages from what we have today.


2) And yet all three services have female generals or admirals. Today. Right now.


3) So when you said "women aren't capable of becoming superior officers," "aren't capable" is ... silly overstatement? Bad rhetoric? Massive confusion on your part? The literal meaning is nonsense.

 

1) Perhaps. Still, that does not account for women having different preferences, different priorities and make different life-choices than men. Even if somehow through bio-augmentation women would become as physically capable as men, you'll always see less female soldiers and even fewer female high-ranking officers.

2) Can you name a few? And if that's true: so what? Female generals or admirals are extremely rare in real-life, and probably still somewhat rare in the MEU.

3) How is what I said literal nonsense?

[Heathen Oxman]

Oh lord......

 

1. Yes, there are female generals.

 

2. No, combat experience is not required to become a high-ranking officer.

 

3. Physical prowess is not the most important quality to have in a military leader.

 

Yes, I'm a military veteran, and clueless civilians amuse me.

 

 

[Panda]

I don't think DAI is even close as female oriented as some make it to be. I think it's just another case of subconsciously overcounting and overemphasizing women on these roles, since people aren't used for seeing many females in high positions in a game. There has been some counting on how the numbers really are and it's pretty close 50/50 no matter what people thought it is. Even if you don't count some men in leader positions as leaders they still are, same can be said with females in the games.

[BabyPuncher]

It's not odd. To become a soldier you already need to be in top physical and top mental health. Many women don't pass the screening test for that.

 

I'm surprised someone hasn't posted a laughing .gif to this yet.

[Sartoz]

Because I think having some high ranking human women would make the world more consistent and better, thus improving the game in some small way at no cost.

 

edit:  If you think this is trivial subject, and the gender of such characters in the game is trivial for you, then that's a perfectly reasonable position to take.  But, then, I have to ask why you're bothering posting in this thread?  It won't affect anything you'll care about.

     

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And here I thought mom's are women of power.

 

Anyway, more consistent at what? and better how? 

 

Supposed the game has three High female Muckity-Mucks, but storywise have only a few lines, how is that better, consistent or improves the game? And you must be on board with me when I say that ME:A is NOT the story about three High female Muckity-Mucks.

 

[The Heretic of Time]

1. Yes, there are female generals.

 

2. No, combat experience is not required to become a high-ranking officer.

 

3. Physical prowess is not the most important quality to have in a military leader.

 

Yes, I'm a military veteran, and clueless civilians amuse me.

 

1. No one denied that. But they are in the vast, vast, vast minority.

2. Maybe not real combat experience, but training and doing lots of practice missions (and succeeding those) is definitely required.

3. Physical prowess is still very important though and as a leader of a squad you're expected to be in top physical shape.


Funny though, in the transgender discussion you claimed to be transgender. When we were talking about autism you claimed to be autistic. When we were talking about depression you claimed to be depressed. Now we're talking about the military and you claim to be a military veteran.

How convenient that you always seem to be the thing that the discussion is about.

[Asari Goddess]

We need a female Like Tela Vasir, Preferably Asari

 

[The Heretic of Time]

We need a female Like Tela Vasir, Preferably Asari

 

 

I loved that character.

I loved slaughtering her on my Vanguard Shepard even more though.