157 réponses à ce sujet

[HelenCarnate]

No and I've thought about this for a while. Playing on beta at low promotes I was running a Throwing Blades, Hidden Blades, Combat Roll and TTD build involving low to no use of Flow of Battle. This is why I suggested a damage buff (Fervor was added in the newest iteration) with this in mind. Flow of Battle isn't necessary when you have many options for both DPS and survivability.

 

I do understand your point, but again as I've said she is in an OP state when you have high promotions right now.

 

Flow of Battle, if not removed, should be tweaked or replaced with Kirkwall's kiss

EVERYTHING is in an OP state when you have high promotions right now.  SS does less damage than many of my other characters but is more survivable.  She also does more damage than many others but is less survivable than those.  The SS at my level of promotions is a near perfect balance of damage vs survivability.

 

Now if you really want to talk about classes that get stupidly OP with several promotions you should look at the reaver.  If I really wanted to, I could plow through perilous with just 1 button and eventually, with more promotions, it will be the same with nightmare.  

[HelenCarnate]

150/150/150 Assassin will not be able to solo without a lot of luck NM nevermind HB

I can facetank with my Assassin already at 30/55/55 on perilous.  With 100 more promotions on each and with using patience and planning for attacks I don't doubt I could solo most NM stuff.

[Dedric]

Her obvious counters are shield bearers, but i just leave those for someone else

 

Yeah I find gladiators annoying with her too, but with War Horn (which, when upgraded, is a solid skill for Nightmare) or either of the fearing passives, shields become a lot more manageable. Even without those, a Charging Bull to their flanks can do a good job.

[SkillSpray]

In my opinion the issue is not in Flow of battle or her damage. Her damage, while definetely on the higher end of the curve, is not what's broken about her. Flow of battle is what makes her fun to play, as you always have an ability+the stamina(looked like it hurt) to use it.

 

What's broken is turn the bolt+turn the blade. Those added to her tree paired with a huge amount of guard generators and the passive guard on hit is what makes her the tankiest class currently. Yes, tankier than the templar or lego. Why? fast attack speed on daggers, abilities that deal multiple hits and the guard on hit keep her topped off. I've seen templars/legos with about similar promotions to mine go down on nightmare if they make a mistake in positioning or fail to generate guard properly. I've played about 10 runs with pala on NM, faced every faction, and my health was literally never touched. It was so ridiculous, that i even stopped using a HoK ring and went with full damage. (used crit, crit dmg rings, now using spinning blades+throwing blades rings, still testing what's better for her).

 

The tankiness allows her to keep steadily dpsing, where other classes have to take cover. My reaver (not fair comparison, but still), with 2k hp, has to play hide and seek with RT Horrors.

 

Turn the bolt+blade are tank exclusive talents, no other warrior besides the shield ones have them. Give those talents to katari/avaar/reaver(lol) and you will get similar results. Obviously, promotion gods can skip these as they have capped or close to capped damage mitigation either way, but the balancing should not be done for the top 1% of the playerbase.

[Kissraven]

Not everyone was in the Beta so cant we all just give it at least 1 week before we start talking about being "op" or "nerfing" a new char???

I think the biggest takeaway is that her skill tree is done very well and her playstyle flows better than most or all other chars. For anyone who played ME3 the newer chars were also a bit better overall and had better flow than a lot of the vanilla starting chars. I see nothing wrong with this.

[Johnsen1972]

She is not overpowered. She is better then most classes, but you need to be overpromoted to do heartbreaker solo.

 

But then you can also do the same things with legionaire and AW. 

 

SO STOP CRYING FOR NERFS. Instead ask for buffs for the weak classes.

[Pork]

I love how its always the high promoted players that say she isn't stat dependant, like they need some sort of validation that its the class and not the player that is completely overpowered.

[tempest238]

What you're suggesting isn't possible, so a nerf (read: rework) of her tree is necessary rather than a lazy nerf. See solutions I suggested

edit - didnt read past "what your suggesting isnt possible". Your fix of changing the skills and passives is the lazy change that doesnt fix DAI's MP issues. Which is in fact the high promotion players have a warped vision of how classes handle for us "plebs"

/edit

 

I may not be a coding master. But I have enough experience to say that the stat you get from promotions. A .5 to crit for example. Is easy enough to change.

 

To break it down as simply as I can.

Almost all games are based on some kind of database. Whether it be for stats, gear, or found codex entries etc etc.

Lets talk about stats.

 

There is most likely a table in the database with a defined set of stats. Created and edited by the devs.

Those stats will say something like crit chance per promotion = .5

constitution = x number of health points.

constitution = .5 melee defense

Strength = x amount of damage. (I say x cause I honestly dont know these numbers off the top of my head)

promotion with pala = cunning point

promotion with avvar = constitution point

etc etc etc

 

There is another table in the database that has your specific account..

It will have such things as # of promotions, characters unlocked, gear in your possession (ie heartstring bow = yes) etc

 

This is where it gets kind of technical

Every stat on your "table" is pulled from that first table I talked about.

For this example you have 90 rollovers with the archer cause he is your fav.

archer rollovers = 90

base cunning stat = 10

Cunning = base + archer (other rogue classes as well) = 100

So crit damage = cunning(pulled from cunning stat) 100 x .5 (stat pulled from static stat table) = 50% crit chance

 

Anything you look at onscreen is pulled from various tables in the database.

 

All Bioware has to do is change that basic stat driven table in the games database. Doing so will result in a cascade change in all subsequent tables.

The only issue will be to squash any glitches and bugs that such a change would spawn.

Then after they adjust all of the player stats so there is less deviation. They will have to balance the stats for the various difficulties with the different factions.

 

Realistically speaking. Since Bioware has the personnel capable of effecting such changes. They could do so within 2 months time. From the time they change the first stat to the time they release a patch with all the collective changes.

 

So dont say it is impossible to change numbers in a game.

For example. The changes Luke made to those annoying soldiers that blocked everything. He was not able to actually change the animation cause that is embedded into the game's engine and those associated files. But he was able to change the numbers behind the animation so that it wouldnt be as severe as it was.

 

TL:DR stuff - a bare minimum example of how a database works. And how easy it would be to change just one stat to change every table in a database that calls on that stat.

[Johnsen1972]

Yeah, keep crying and you will loose the only viable rogue for NM.

After the next patch NOBODY will play her and she will rot in the dust.

[Pork]

Yeah, keep crying and you will loose the only viable rogue for NM.

 

2 out of the 3 best classes for nightmare prior to Pala are rogues. 

[daima17]

My stats are around 50/50/50 atm.

I played her on NM FC mainly with hakkon dagger and savage thorn with charging bull, throwing blades, spinning blades and ofc hidden blades. All my gear is for more cunning/crit chances.

First point, she's so ugly it's disgusting even in Ultra.

 

Second point, she's the first character i can bring in NM without the need of HoK... and that says a lot already... I can tank shadow full melee combo without getting my guard wrecked as it should be. I can rush all the time and that's what I do now in NM. I dont (need to) teamplay anymore, It's more like PUG threatening when you wanna get most kills than others. So it's bad. I liked NM before cause it forced teamplay if you didnt want to get crushed. Now you don't anymore. I liked my legionnaire to tank for friends and they like it too. Now poor legos gonna stay in the tavern cause he's not anymore wanted. She is strictly better than him, and katari too. She's also the first character i can solo with in NM... (AW too but it's boring as hell.)

 

Third point, why the hell has she, or he or it, the best passives in the game ? Flow of the battle makes most characters broken but she has also infinite stamina so you can infinite spam whatever you have and hidden blades is crazy good. She does good damage while maintaining full hp and guard. Arcane warrior was ok with high survivability, he had low damage to compensate. Anyway both characters are easy to play, just tap tap tap tap your skill buttons. It's the kind of characters you can play with a gamepad #drasca.

 

Last point, the loadout. On izzie you have choices for second dagger. On that ugly thing, you don't.

The only drawbacks are shield guys, knockdowns when you have aggro all the map and the fact she's so ugly.

 

So I think she's totally broken and she doesnt add anything special for teamplay. She's just too efficient and make other characters really bad.

[sonofbarak]

I can facetank with my Assassin already at 30/55/55 on perilous.  With 100 more promotions on each and with using patience and planning for attacks I don't doubt I could solo most NM stuff.

 

nice dream

[Spin-Orbit]

I can facetank with my Assassin already at 30/55/55 on perilous.  With 100 more promotions on each and with using patience and planning for attacks I don't doubt I could solo most NM stuff.

i am higher than 150/150/150 and could say it isn't easy as you think. Perilous is very different.

[Spin-Orbit]

My stats are around 50/50/50 atm.

I played her on NM FC mainly with hakkon dagger and savage thorn with charging bull, throwing blades, spinning blades and ofc hidden blades. All my gear is for more cunning/crit chances.

First point, she's so ugly it's disgusting even in Ultra.

 

Second point, she's the first character i can bring in NM without the need of HoK... and that says a lot already... I can tank shadow full melee combo without getting my guard wrecked as it should be. I can rush all the time and that's what I do now in NM. I dont (need to) teamplay anymore, It's more like PUG threatening when you wanna get most kills than others. So it's bad. I liked NM before cause it forced teamplay if you didnt want to get crushed. Now you don't anymore. I liked my legionnaire to tank for friends and they like it too. Now poor legos gonna stay in the tavern cause he's not anymore wanted. She is strictly better than him, and katari too. She's also the first character i can solo with in NM... (AW too but it's boring as hell.)

 

Third point, why the hell has she, or he or it, the best passives in the game ? Flow of the battle makes most characters broken but she has also infinite stamina so you can infinite spam whatever you have and hidden blades is crazy good. She does good damage while maintaining full hp and guard. Arcane warrior was ok with high survivability, he had low damage to compensate. Anyway both characters are easy to play, just tap tap tap tap your skill buttons. It's the kind of characters you can play with a gamepad #drasca.

 

Last point, the loadout. On izzie you have choices for second dagger. On that ugly thing, you don't.

The only drawbacks are shield guys, knockdowns when you have aggro all the map and the fact she's so ugly.

 

So I think she's totally broken and she doesnt add anything special for teamplay. She's just too efficient and make other characters really bad.

Sounds like what everyone said about Arcane Warrior so why would you not nerf the crap out of Pala when AW got hit hard for the same reason?

[HelenCarnate]

i am higher than 150/150/150 and could say it isn't easy as you think. Perilous is very different.

Never said it would be fast, just doable for most stuff.

[Kriztofer]

Sounds like what everyone said about Arcane Warrior so why would you not nerf the crap out of Pala when AW got hit hard for the same reason?

Pala is pretty much to guard what pre-nerf Arcane Warrior was to barrier.

 

That said, as someone who exclusively plays pugs a character like this is extremely necessary - especially with the recent influx of new players from adding DAI to the EA access vault. The only character with equal survivability + damage to her right now is Reaver with full health restoration items.

 

Also, for the record my stats are only 24/27/21 - I do have a Savage Thorn though, so that compensates for it a little.

[Spin-Orbit]

Pala is pretty much to guard what pre-nerf Arcane Warrior was to barrier.

 

That said, as someone who exclusively plays pugs a character like this is extremely necessary - especially with the recent influx of new players from adding DAI to the EA access vault. The only character with equal survivability + damage to her right now is Reaver with full health restoration items.

 

Also, for the record my stats are only 24/27/21 - I do have a Savage Thorn though, so that compensates for it a little.

I am not disagreeing just pointing out how much uproar there was about AW and also about AW not a party character. So if the logic is to follow same thing will happen to Pala?

[Drasca]

I can facetank with my Assassin already at 30/55/55 on perilous.  With 100 more promotions on each and with using patience and planning for attacks I don't doubt I could solo most NM stuff.

 

Can confirm. I fulfill the above requirements and do solo as Helen predicted.

[Drasca]

i am higher than 150/150/150 and could say it isn't easy as you think. Perilous is very different.

 

It is both different, and it even easier thank you thin once the requirements are fulfilled.

[Spin-Orbit]

Never said it would be fast, just doable for most stuff.

I highly question that as well. When the assassin is soloing all aggro is on her as soon as she is out of stealth, the terror demons popping out of ground or despair demons x 8 attacking her will put her on the ground and she has no guard/elusive/barrier. Also against the red templars she can not handle 8 to 10 red templar horrors and knights shooting red lyrium bolts and staggering her. Also surround by brutes and assassins against the venatori and she will get staggered or knocked down again she has no defense. Her only long range attacks are the hidden blades and it takes a while for cooldown. She isn't a solo candidate at all.

[Drasca]

I am not disagreeing just pointing out how much uproar there was about AW and also about AW not a party character. So if the logic is to follow same thing will happen to Pala?

 

Pala is inherently more party friendly because it engages things immediately AND provides CC to the party in the form of panic.

[Spin-Orbit]

Can confirm. I fulfill the above requirements and do solo as Helen predicted.

against which enemy and old maps i assume?

[Wavebend]

Can confirm. I fulfill the above requirements and do solo as Helen predicted.

 

Could you solo NM with an assassin on Red Templars? If yes, then I'm wondering why you didn't point this out sooner, because I have no experience playing at higher promotions.

[Spin-Orbit]

Pala is inherently more party friendly because it engages things immediately AND provides CC to the party in the form of panic.

that is not much of a differentiation, but it isn't my call anyway 

[Kriztofer]

I am not disagreeing just pointing out how much uproar there was about AW and also about AW not a party character. So if the logic is to follow same thing will happen to Pala?

Most likely, I hope not though. I'm still sad at what happened to the poor Arcane Warrior - that most builds suggest ignoring the spirit blade means something went wrong.

 

The one thing that does make the old Arcane Warrior somewhat stronger than Pala is that she does rely somewhat more on gear than the Arcane Warrior did, that's my one reason I'm hoping she may avoid being completely nerfed. Sadly, I think a some sort of nerf is inevitable, just have to hope it doesn't break her for anyone with bellow 100 in all stats.