157 réponses à ce sujet

[DaryAlexV]

Why don't we just leave this fun class alone and focus on buffing weaker characters.

This. /thread

[xsvTOYZ]

I do ok at this, my stats carry me more than my gameplay but I have fun so who is to judge?  90/70/70. 

this character is fun, almost too fun.  first promote was only ok. I had my dragon daggers and gaurd was slow to build and she was good but a handfull. put the thorns on and choose better gaurd builders and she is OP. I think its the ease of how she gets gaurd that makes the rest seem too easy. make me have to back off the facetanking and more things will come in line.

The ability of it to have constant barrier turns alot of weaker characters into dangerous attackers if they dont have to watch what they are doing and this is an example. Zither makes most levels up to NM pretty manageable with some good teamplay and communication a 2nd barrier generator and your group is almost op depending on your DP. 

maybe a little less gaurd gen?  also fix the spirit blade!  we should never have to consider to drop the most unique feature because its nearly useless. I got a stronger fly swatter!

[Pork]

Drasca

Two things - one i have over 200 NM runs and stats over 150 across, all Hakkons. I know what i am talking about and unless you will go into stealth and wait for the cooldowns before making every attack, your claims don't add up

if you can do it at 0 stats, put up a video or don't claim it. Just a poor boorish behavior

Drasca wont put up a video because he frequently makes claims he cant back up and he actually isnt that good of a player, just has stats to carry him, like medallian. Just ask snakebite for proof of that.

[Masantos77]

Very low on promotions so i´m very gear and weapon dependant. I´m only 5/5/4...

 

Still don´t have any of the fancy accessories either...

 

 I can only compare Pala with my reaver. Both have tier 3 (the purple one...is it tier 3???) crafted gear. But for the reaver i got a Swift Axe, wich is much better than the daggers i have for the rogue...

 

Haven´t tried Pala in perilous yet so can´t tell there but in Nightmare her survivabily is much better than the Reaver. Damage wise Reaver is much better. I imagine that if i get decent daggers and some accessories i could do perilous with minor problems.

 

but hey... what do i know??? 5/5/4

[Silversmurf]

...

[Beerfish]

She is the most powerful character in comparison to all the others by a fair bit.  Still, I hope she doesn't get nerfed too soon.

[Phazael]

Low promotes here (I get bored grinding, mainly just log in for the events) and I am running Thorn with offhand Dragon, stacking Mele and Ranged defense in most of my accessory slots.  My build has been Spinning Blades, Throwing Blades, Hidden Blades, and the spin AE move from the Isabella.  I don't play NM (not enough promotes to PuG it), but I frequent Perilous quite a bit.

 

First off, the guard generation is pretty ridiculous on this character, but I don't think that is the issue.  Turn the Blade and Turn the Bolt might be at issue, as they are normally confined to tanky classes, but she has to have them if you want to try the tankish build option.  Maybe move those in the tree past the taunt powers so they are only accessible to people going that route would be a better fix.  I think you can otherwise leave her guard generation alone, because most of that stems from the ability to do free DPS constantly.

 

That's the real issue, btw.  Without flow of battle, I had to manage my stamina and plan my attacks on large groups.  The instant I got that ability, even with garbage stats, Perilous pretty much turned into Routine for me.  You cant solve the infinite stamina issue on the catasses with tons of promotions without reworking the entire game and alienating those people.  Pulling Flow of Battle would at least force those people to ration their cooldowns and not go full frontal male nudity DPS all the time.  Low promote/gear people would still be in good shape, because the tanky builds exist for the class and waiting around for stamina tends to be about as long as the basic cooldowns in the kiddie pool promote range where I play.  It might also incentivize people taking at least one defense related skill (Warhorn, Combat Roll) instead of just loading up their bar with DPS (like I even do).  I am not sure what you would replace that passive with, but a modest group passive might be nice, to give her a little group synergy beyond panic spam.  Maybe Tricks of the trade?

 

Anyhow, on my end of things, the Reaver, Isabella, and Avar all outperform her.  I would put her on par with the Keeper, AW, or Lego, really.  Very survivable, until the knockdown happens.  She has the DPS but little to no group synergy that some of those other classes have.  Basically, a tailor made PUG class for casuals, very much like the pre-nerf AW.  I am sure that once you have 100+ in all stats that changes, but so does everything else.

[Jailson_MMB]

ok she is op, but the question is... she is op for people of low stats? a good part of the community benefited from the time when the barrier was op, new players do not know what they have lost, will be that it will happen with pala? I don't  care about cunning. but what about the new players will be that they must be affected because some of us have +200 cunning? 

[Proto]

Low promotes here (I get bored grinding, mainly just log in for the events) and I am running Thorn with offhand Dragon, stacking Mele and Ranged defense in most of my accessory slots.  My build has been Spinning Blades, Throwing Blades, Hidden Blades, and the spin AE move from the Isabella.  I don't play NM (not enough promotes to PuG it), but I frequent Perilous quite a bit.

 

First off, the guard generation is pretty ridiculous on this character, but I don't think that is the issue.  Turn the Blade and Turn the Bolt might be at issue, as they are normally confined to tanky classes, but she has to have them if you want to try the tankish build option.  Maybe move those in the tree past the taunt powers so they are only accessible to people going that route would be a better fix.  I think you can otherwise leave her guard generation alone, because most of that stems from the ability to do free DPS constantly.

 

That's the real issue, btw.  Without flow of battle, I had to manage my stamina and plan my attacks on large groups.  The instant I got that ability, even with garbage stats, Perilous pretty much turned into Routine for me.  You cant solve the infinite stamina issue on the catasses with tons of promotions without reworking the entire game and alienating those people.  Pulling Flow of Battle would at least force those people to ration their cooldowns and not go full frontal male nudity DPS all the time.  Low promote/gear people would still be in good shape, because the tanky builds exist for the class and waiting around for stamina tends to be about as long as the basic cooldowns in the kiddie pool promote range where I play.  It might also incentivize people taking at least one defense related skill (Warhorn, Combat Roll) instead of just loading up their bar with DPS (like I even do).  I am not sure what you would replace that passive with, but a modest group passive might be nice, to give her a little group synergy beyond panic spam.  Maybe Tricks of the trade?

 

Anyhow, on my end of things, the Reaver, Isabella, and Avar all outperform her.  I would put her on par with the Keeper, AW, or Lego, really.  Very survivable, until the knockdown happens.  She has the DPS but little to no group synergy that some of those other classes have.  Basically, a tailor made PUG class for casuals, very much like the pre-nerf AW.  I am sure that once you have 100+ in all stats that changes, but so does everything else.

 

What are your stats exactly? I ask because of the following:

 

Hopped into a twitch stream of its_the_bad_wolf.

 

His stats are 44/22/23. Nothing crazy, in line with what Beta people had to work with.

 

Build: Throwing Blades / Hidden Blades / Spinning Blades / Charging Bull

 

Equipment:

 

Main Hand: Savage Thorn w/ an added 18% Armor Pen & 5% Crit Chance.
Offhand: Nameless Blade w/ an added 17% critical chance.
Amulet: Superb Amulet of Cunning
Belt: Superb Belt of Health
Armor Upgrade: +11 cunning/ +8 willpower (just watched him upgrade it to +16)

Ring1: Superb Ring of Crit Chance
Ring2: Enhanced Ring of Life Drain

 

He's spamming abilities nearly as quickly as I do with 150 cunning. If he doesn't have a cooldown he auto attacks for maybe 2 seconds and one of the 4 abilities is up. After using that ability he can start chain spamming abilities again. He has carried his squad through two 15-18 min Perilous games. (150+ Kills/25+ Killstreaks)

 

Stamina was not once an issue. Full 99% of the time.

 

I think people forget Perilous used to be tough, not feel like routine for low promotion players.

[Yilin]

[snip]

Pulling Flow of Battle would at least force those people to ration their cooldowns and not go full frontal male nudity DPS all the time.

[snip]

Anyhow, on my end of things, the Reaver, Isabella, and Avar all outperform her.  I would put her on par with the Keeper, AW, or Lego, really.

[snip]

 

I don't understand.  Calling for nerfs (want to remove Flow of Battle - imo a passive that has a major part in her being so fun to play) and at the same time saying she is out-performed by 3 other classes and equal to 3 others?

 

Why not buff under-performing classes to play better (and more fun) ??

 

It can be said that this would result in trivializing the higher difficulties, that higher promoted players will be stomping through them.  But as far as I can tell.. higher promoted players and/or just plain good players were stomping through this content already before the silent sister.  Buffing other classes would open up more approachable builds and enable more people to play higher difficulties.. the people who already can steamroll are going to shave a few minutes off their runs maybe?

 

Some of that logic may be a bit loose, but, I just don't understand wanting to nerf a (fun) character while admitting there are 6 other characters of equal or greater strength. 

[TheThirdRace]

I think people forget Perilous used to be tough, not feel like routine for low promotion players.

That era ended the day Armor got buffed. The argument was they were fixing Guard...

[Pork]

 

I think people forget Perilous used to be tough, not feel like routine for low promotion players.

 

People also forget that Armor got a pretty huge buff, rendering perilous as hard as threatening.

[Quintinw]

23/19/13

 

I can run Nightmare in a PUG with 3 others and have almost 0 problems, as long as i keep the enemies facing me to the front.

Get hit from behind? Watch your hp drop faster than pants on prom night! :/

 

Nerf her and ill quit. She is fine as is

[HelenCarnate]

I think the big reason why her durability is so high is because many of us have the Savage Thorn dagger.  Generating 5 guard every few seconds on top of guard on every hit really makes her a brick wall.  A small, thick brick wall.....charging.  I will have to see if I can't get another decent dagger to drop so I can try her without that one to see how different she plays. 

[TheThirdRace]

Savage Thorn does help her a lot with survivability.

 

On th other hand, those shield guys are freaking annoying! Ever felt like this little ball of destruction just got morphed into a ping pong ball when 2 shield enemy aggro on you? Now I know...

[DrakeHasNoFlow]

I honestly don't find her op at all. AW pre nerf was far stronger and more versatile than ss by quite a large margin because he had an answer (still does) to every faction and was more efficient in dealing out dps/cc across the board. I can't say the same for ss because she only excels against demons (which most classes in nm can do besides virtuoso, assassin etc.) while other two factions are not a cakewalk for her due to shield bearers having a 360 degree axis of infinite block. It does not matter if you have maxed out cunning, because Ss cannot take advantage of flow of battle if her abilities are negated by these enemies.

Her answers to shield bearers are two defensive abilities from her tree which are combat roll (cleanse in case of knockdown) and parry but both take up two ability slots which lowers her dps dramatically. I don't consider parry a noteworthy offensive ability due to the amount of armor and hp shield bearers have in nm. I've seen it do upwards of 1.5k but it does not cause knockdown or stun to help her reposition. Parry will not save ss if she is cornered by shield bearers either. Even if ss is able to complete zone 4 against venatori in which 50% of the enemies are shield bearers, it wouldn't be nearly as efficient as with other classes. Other classes like AW (still) and Reaver have more efficient and less time consuming ways of handling these enemies as opposed to ss in which all momentum is seemingly halted.

To me, that's not a cause for concern to give her the nerf bat so eagerly. Guard generation on hit helps newcomers with survivability and to be less of a burden to their teammates on higher difficulties and while four palas can definitely fly through nm with ease regardless of factions, the results would be the same or better with four reavers, archers, AW, lego, etc.

Actually the bioware devs should look closely at teamwork because that has always been overpowered.

[palameda]

...so it's probably the high end daggers that made it feel so easy.

My thoughts exactly. It's all about guns.

[JiaJM98]

Yeah. Demons is definitely the weakest faction, probably needs a buff..

It wasn't until everyone on NM and HB start to see full party of sisters....

 

My promotion is 50/50/50 (well not quite yet, just a few points away) and I can solo NM FC if I'm facing demons, just that it takes far too long for it to be fun.

[JiaJM98]

Even if ss is able to complete zone 4 against venatori in which 50% of the enemies are shield bearers, it wouldn't be nearly as efficient as with other classes. Other classes like AW (still) and Reaver have more efficient and less time consuming ways of handling these enemies as opposed to ss in which all momentum is seemingly halted.

Yup it certainly helps if we stop seeing whole lobby full of sisters... We end up just having one sister holding the aggro, everyone else just cast war horn every time mobs get out of panic and just keep throwing stuff in between.

[JiaJM98]

Savage Thorn does help her a lot with survivability.

 

On th other hand, those shield guys are freaking annoying! Ever felt like this little ball of destruction just got morphed into a ping pong ball when 2 shield enemy aggro on you? Now I know...

Worse when people decide to go with lv12 or 11 SS and not a single one of us had war horn or panic passives...

[konfeta]

I don't mind the shield bearer knockdowns anywhere near as much as their total damage immunity to all of her damage abilities in an 180 degree arc. Charging bull should at least knock them down or something. Panic spam doesn't even really help, because there is a gigantic pack of them, and worse yet, if they are all panicked they now start randomly spinning around.

 

If foot soldiers are jedi, then gladiators are the spartans from 300.

 

The only reasonably fast way to deal with them in a mostly SS group so far is playing ping pong of your own with chagring bull between 2 players and then just dump hidden blades to kill them on the ground 1 by 1.

[coffbear7]

 I can understand trying to see if there is a corellation between stats vs damage output/survivalbility with a new character that some may deem overpowered and others who see it not so. Makes sense.

 

 What I don't understand is how players miss the corellation between prenerf vs post nerf of any character. Those able to use the new character for several weeks or a month(s) before its deemed nerfable will have knowingly participated in having an advantage for faster promotion over players that have not yet been able to access, unlock/build or started playing the Mp component before the nerf. Prey tell, how is that fair? It has happened in so many ways already in the life cycle of this game. AW much anyone?

 

 If you would be upset about the use of a glitch or an exploit, how can one not see that having an overpowered character to play for a month or so and then it not being available for someone else new to the character after nerf not an unfair advantage for you?

 

 Color it any way you want, but an advantage is an advantage. If its going to get a nerf do it now!

[Zorinho20_CRO]

Very low on promotions so i´m very gear and weapon dependant. I´m only 5/5/4...

 

Still don´t have any of the fancy accessories either...

 

 I can only compare Pala with my reaver. Both have tier 3 (the purple one...is it tier 3???) crafted gear. But for the reaver i got a Swift Axe, wich is much better than the daggers i have for the rogue...

 

Haven´t tried Pala in perilous yet so can´t tell there but in Nightmare her survivabily is much better than the Reaver. Damage wise Reaver is much better. I imagine that if i get decent daggers and some accessories i could do perilous with minor problems.

 

but hey... what do i know??? 5/5/4

Do your teammates have back pain?

[Spin-Orbit]

23/19/13

 

I can run Nightmare in a PUG with 3 others and have almost 0 problems, as long as i keep the enemies facing me to the front.

Get hit from behind? Watch your hp drop faster than pants on prom night! :/

 

Nerf her and ill quit. She is fine as is

That means what? Many said that about AW look what happened. We shall see

[DragonRacer]

That's what hidden blades is for.

 

Life-changing advice. Have had zero Perilous Despair Demon troubles since.