42 réponses à ce sujet

[Drasanil]

I admit I am not aware of any dialog that takes place, if any, if you decide to kill it.

 

Even if you free it dies. When you play an elf PC you get a translation of what it is saying through the text captions and it asks Solas to guide it to death. 

[Heyokah]

Even if you free it dies. When you play an elf PC you get a translation of what it is saying through the text captions and it asks Solas to guide it to death. 

Yes I know it dies but Solas says that it will return but will be "different".

 

EDIT - Solas also says that it will not return to the same place or be the of the same personality that it once was and it may not recognize him or he it.

[Uirebhiril]

Beside it being a major stretch to say the spirit of Wisdom that is Solas's friend is also the spirit that is a demon that looks like Justinia..... trying to cram all the relevance on one spirit/character like that makes the world way too small, and I expect the writers are better at their job than that. Whatever spiritJustinia was might be important later on, or might never be anything again, but the rest? Naah.

 

This is too much like everyone seeing elven gods in half our companions. Use it once, it's interesting. Turn everyone into a lost vessel and it's suddenly boring and reads like the valiant efforts of a first-time fanfic writer who hasn't yet learned the craft.

[Drasanil]

Yes I know it dies but Solas says that it will return but will be "different".

 

EDIT - Solas also says that it will not return to the same place or be the of the same personality that it once was and it may not recognize him or he it.

 

Which dialogue option do you have to pick to get that? Don't remember getting anything of the sort. Also, from the description, it sounds like his friend is effectively dead for all intents and purposes and may replaced by a possible new friend that may or may not share some similar characteristics. 

 

As for his friend being the spirit of Justinia, its rather easy to disprove, you can do here lies the abyss while Solas' personal quest is active and his friend is still trapped in pride demon form. 

[Drasanil]

This is too much like everyone seeing elven gods in half our companions. Use it once, it's interesting.

 

I remember that crazy thread. Pretty sure it was just a few rabid Sera fans having a major case of Solas envy    

[Heyokah]

Which dialogue option do you have to pick to get that? Don't remember getting anything of the sort. Also, from the description, it sounds like it's friend is effectively dead for all intents and purposes and replaced by a possible new friend that may or may not share some similar characteristics. 

 

As for his friend being the spirit of Justinia, its rather easy to disprove, you can do here lies the abyss while Solas' personal quest is active and his friend is still trapped in pride demon form. 

Or perhaps his friend is merely beginning the process of being trapped.  Heck I dunno.  But Solas does explicitly state that the Wisdom spirit will return but will be different.  He also says that whatever spirit comes to reside where his "friend" was it will no longer be familiar to him or him to it.

 

Admittedly it has been a while since I played through this point but I do remember him saying that although THAT spirit was dead something would take its place.

 

edit - at this point I am playing Solas' advocate as it were  

 

edit 2 - actually if his friend was in the process of being trapped would it not make sense that the spirit in the Fade left so suddenly?

[Drasanil]

edit 2 - actually if his friend was in the process of being trapped would it not make sense that the spirit in the Fade left so suddenly?

 

No. Solas only brings the quest to your attention once his friend is trapped. 

[Heyokah]

While I do agree with you I still stand by my premise that the spirit in the Fade is actually Solas' "friend".

[hekate68]

I appreciate your effort, I really do. It made me wonder about how fishy the simple fact the Inquisitors memories were erased is. I mean, why did that happen? Why the Inq forgot even the events BEFORE entering the Fade. Why only the things concering getting the Mark got erased? And why is she the only one who can help to get them back? For me it seems like the memories were taken on purpose. The only one we may blame for now is her, but honestly, I don't believe she's a DEMON. A spirit, yes, but not a demon. She's just too harmless. She may exist on the same level as the spirits in the Temple of Sacred Ashes. 

[Ariella]

Why the Inq forgot even the events BEFORE entering the Fade. Why only the things concering getting the Mark got erased? And why is she the only one who can help to get them back? For me it seems like the memories were taken on purpose. The only one we may blame for now is her, but honestly, I don't believe she's a DEMON. A spirit, yes, but not a demon. She's just too harmless. She may exist on the same level as the spirits in the Temple of Sacred Ashes.

The Nightmare does admit to taking those memories, it was feeding on them. One potential explaination is that Justina somehow saved those specific memories with the expectation of returning them.

She may have been able to save more, but kept them in order to keep the truth of what she is from everyone.

But yes, there are still a lot of holes, and I wonder if we'll find out more.

[Uirebhiril]

While I do agree with you I still stand by my premise that the spirit in the Fade is actually Solas' "friend".

 

But... why? Because it's a known character and that's convenient? What story reason would they have for this being the case?

[Ariella]

But... why? Because it's a known character and that's convenient? What story reason would they have for this being the case?

Exactly. Solas says energy of the spirit might birth something similar, it wouldn't be the spirit that was his friend. Operative word of course is might. And the implication is that it would take time.

Uirebhiril is right even if Adamant is done before Solas' quest, why would a spirit of Wisdom get involved? We know that the spirits Solas might have consulted fled when the Breach opened. Which says some interesting things about Justina if she was able to keep herself hiden not only from the Nightmare, but Solas. We've only seen one other spirit with Justina's complexity: Cole. So either she's the soul of the Divine, or something else. I lean toward the latter only because I'm unsure that any normal mortal, however devout, could pull off her last sacrifice.

[Vordish]

Ive had the opportunity to play "Here Lies the Abyss" again and, while my theory could technically work...sort of(still possible but perhaps she is more akin to what happens with Cole?), I would like to add something that I missed that adds credence to the idea that you cannot trust the memories being presented to the player.

 

The memory of the Inquisitor storming into the room has the Inquisitor wearing your current outfit when your actually in the fade at the time of the acquisition of the memories themselves. You are not wearing what you were during the introduction of the game.

 

Bioware is supposed to be presenting a story and I do not believe that this was an oversight because if it were...it would be completely amateurish to allow. The entire point of this sequence is whether or not the mark was given by Andraste. Details are important. I would hold that the memories were, in fact, altered, and they cannot fully be trusted. There is precedence for this as mentioned previously.

 

Interesting.

[Navasha]

I am nearly certain it was a strong spirit of faith.   One that had been following around Justinia for so long that it had become her reflection in the fade.   If something is so completely a duplicate of another than can you say its not the same thing?    This is why the spirit won't say its not Justinia.   For all intents and purposes it embodies all the thoughts and beliefs that Justinia held.  

[SwobyJ]

(Necro but I've really liked this thread.)

 

 

DAI is about seeing beyond 'Spirits' and 'Demons' only. At least optionally. We can get that message from early on, with Solas's explanation implying that the present state of Spirit Vs. Demons (and Demons vs. Mortals, and Fade vs. Thedas even) is only the present state, and that entities are arguably much more complicated than that, even if the still normal state is, again, Spirit vs. Demons.

 

 

I also like the idea that 'Justinia' imparted a tiny part of itself (or tapped into something it imparted earlier) onto the Inquisitor in that shot before it attacks the Nightmare. If only because it could be part of a larger story where we can still continue to believe either that spirits have complexity, or that all spirits are practically demons out to trick you to some extent (the Sera approach). But I'm someone who thinks that the story of the Inquisitor is not at all done with DAI - we just won't be *playing* their story as protagonist anymore.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

My (admittedly pretty loose) theory has always been that it was a Spirit of Faith that was imprinted by Justinia in basically the same way Cole was by the human Cole. I think that's why it was more like a combination of a Spirit and Justinia than just a Spirit. It might have just been a Spirit, or it might have been Justinia's "soul", though. Those are both things that seem possible, in world. I really don't think it was a demon, though. It didn't give any signs of being one and it sacrificed itself at the end. I can't believe it was a malicious being, whatever it was. 

[Tidus]

In  the opening fade scene we see a glowing person reach out a hand Justinia  is supposedly behind you according to  the memories as you escape the fade. How did Justinia jump ahead of you to reach out that helping hand?

 

Then there's that good cop/bad cop scene Cass being the bad cop while Leliana is the good cop in short:

 

Cass advances and yells "You're lying!"

 

Leliana while pulling Cass back " We need him/her Cassandra!"

 

Then in a calm voice Leliana asks  "You remember what happen".

 

The prisoner replies "There was things chasing me and then a woman-

 

Leliana cuts the prisoner off by asking "A woman?"

 

Then Cass jumps in and orders Leliana to go to the forward camp. That seems odd to me since the prisoner starts telling what he/she remembers.

 

 

 

My theory is simple..Its just another one of  B-W WTH moments.

[d1ta]

That part was meant not to be clear cut because it serves a roll playing purpose:

You can be a devout Andrastrian or a Creator / Ancestor worshipper elf or dwarf and that scene would still fit.

Not every one wants to be the Herald just like not every one is keen on religion / matters of the faith.

Different strokes and all that and BW has to account for what some of those folks want, too