Yeah I was partially aware of some of this turn of events, and it's pretty much a perfect analogy to my issue with BioWare's titles as a series moves on:
You start with this really creative and believable universe, but then slowly the human and 'rule of cool' elements move in and force out all the diverse 'other' elements in the series until you are left with Pinocchio tropes and space ninjas.
Keep in mind, he was very much onboard with the humans are special aspect of ME1, which was its core foundational principle (a kind of anti-B5, where humanity was special because of its social dimensions but not its ingenuity, whereas in ME, humanity was supposed to be special because of that ingenuity).
He was very much on the side of aliens stay alien, though.
Agreed. And hopefully the species that make the trip will include the more distinct aliens like the Rachni, Hanar, and Elcor; as well the aliens we get in Andromeda are more than re-skinned 'Not-Quarians' or 'Not-Drell'.
But those aliens aren't distinct (well, the rachi are, and the hanar sort of are, but that's it). But Elcor are just humans with a different body plan, and honestly, the Hanar aren't that different from people apart from the body plan either. Non-human doesn't just mean "looks different" - it means "thinks different".
This is why "alien" aliens are usually insects, or have incomprehensible thought patterns to use. When we can understand, communicate, and relate to them (including in the sense of understanding their general society), we just get a bunch of rubber forehead aliens.
What I don't understand is why they should be able to sexually accommodate a human man when their species has no men. Why would their evolution go that way? It's all good until you start thinking about it, lol.
As much as I like the asari, they were mostly designed for fanservice. I honestly didn't like their whole attitude, except from certain ones.
But I'm hoping ME:A will have different asari personalities, as well as more females from other species.
Patchwork, Vanilka, PrayingMantis et 2 autres aiment ceci
As much as I like the asari, they were mostly designed for fanservice. I honestly didn't like their whole attitude, except from certain ones.
But I'm hoping ME:A will have different asari personalities, as well as more females from other species.
Good point. I've always found it a bit funny how they made a big point about how "Asari are not like that!" but then you play the game and they are very often dancers and mercs that sleep around and if not that, they're at least very cuddly with you without even knowing you that well. Now, don't take me wrong, I like me some liberal and pretty blue women and there's nothing wrong with that attitude, either, but I feel that there's a big difference between what the game tries to tell us about the asari and what it actually shows us of the asari.
i honestly don't care as long as its a good game. Sure seeing female aliens is cool. but i just want a good game.
Ok on to the Asari thing do we know how they mate? Have we seen it? Have we seen there junk? Because they can breed whith squids and my Ginger Femshep just fine.
i honestly don't care as long as its a good game. Sure seeing female aliens is cool. but i just want a good game.
Ok on to the Asari thing do we know how they mate? Have we seen it? Have we seen there junk? Because they can breed whith squids and my Ginger Femshep just fine.
We've seen some banshee junk, if that's any indication.
As much as I like the asari, they were mostly designed for fanservice. I honestly didn't like their whole attitude, except from certain ones.
But I'm hoping ME:A will have different asari personalities, as well as more females from other species.
Asari were most definitely fan service. They were predominantly strippers, even in multi-racial night clubs.
Why no male dancers? Seemed odd to me, given how open minded the universe appeared in regard to homosexuality and the like.
Asari kinda reminded me of the "sexy aliens" Kirk would often shag throughout Star Trek. I mean....ok.....you created a race of blue skinned runway models. Fan service.
Patchwork, Vanilka, Suketchi et 1 autre aiment ceci
Asari were most definitely fan service. They were predominantly strippers, even in multi-racial night clubs.
Why no male dancers? Seemed odd to me, given how open minded the universe appeared in regard to homosexuality and the like.
Asari kinda reminded me of the "sexy aliens" Kirk would often shag throughout Star Trek. I mean....ok.....you created a race of blue skinned runway models. Fan service.
I admit I was kind of disappointed about this no male dancers thing because we get so many dance clubs full of asari and human ladies in all three games, but no dudes. None. Zero. More than century in future and among aliens, I expected more variety, I guess. Also, the species that look too alien, like turians, were of course left out for some reason. And I'm not saying that because I necessarily want to see a naked turian or krogan or something, but it just seems funny that everybody digs them squishy female humanoids so much.
Keep in mind, he was very much on-board with the humans are special aspect of ME1, which was its core foundational principle (a kind of anti-B5, where humanity was special because of its social dimensions but not its ingenuity, whereas in ME, humanity was supposed to be special because of that ingenuity).
He was very much on the side of aliens stay alien, though.
That's true, and as much as I dislike that 'Humans are special' troupe at least ME 1 was tolerable. I still didn't like the fact that humanity was being considered for Spectre status after only 30 years, and how quickly we were advancing, but the fact that we had a larger focus on aliens as aliens (as you said) was a refreshing change of pace compared to other franchises like Halo or Star Trek.
It's when the focus shifted almost entirely to human and human-like viewpoints, and when lovely little tidbits like human 'genetic diversity', or 'Take Back Earth' (as if it held any sort of strategic importance prior to the Citadel being moved there) cropped up; when the more distinct aliens were either shoved to the background, killed off, turned into meme factories, or 'fixed' to become like us is where it started to get really annoying.
I have no problem with a science fiction setting having a large focus on humanity, I just don't want that to be the only focus. I want to see more of a nuanced approach to the game like ME 1 or DA:O/A instead of the very human-centric and (in some cases) watered down entries like ME 3 and DA:I. I want to see more 'alien' aliens, and for them to have more depth than: "I'm a mindless monster, kill me for XP. RAWR!"
But those aliens aren't distinct (well, the Rachi are, and the Hanar sort of are, but that's it). But Elcor are just humans with a different body plan, and honestly, the Hanar aren't that different from people apart from the body plan either. Non-human doesn't just mean "looks different" - it means "thinks different".
This is why "alien" aliens are usually insects, or have incomprehensible thought patterns to use. When we can understand, communicate, and relate to them (including in the sense of understanding their general society), we just get a bunch of rubber forehead aliens.
It's impossible to create something that is truly alien, as by its own definition it would be undefinable and incomprehensible. You are right that the Hanar, and Elcor aren't incredibly divergent; even the Rachni (who, as of the end of ME 3, are the most alien species left in the setting) aren't wholly incomprehensible. They have strange speech patterns and operate under a Hive mentality, but when the queen speaks you can largely understand what she is saying. That being said, even with their slight human-like qualities the Rachni, Hanar, and Elcor still were distinct enough to be considered 'alien' especially when compared to the rest of the galaxy; who really were rubber fore-headed humans.
The differences of the Rachni are obvious enough, so I won't discuss them, but I will go over the Hanar and Elcor.
The Hanar
Spoiler
The Hanar culture is based heavily around the Japanese expectation of extreme politeness in public; an understandable culture, but one that has enough of a difference to distinguish them from the other races. Hanar have two names for themselves, one they use in public and in formal conversation with strangers, and the other is used for close friends and intimate relationships. This duality has colored their actions with the rest of the galaxy to the point that the other species (other than the Drell) don't really know the Hanar; despite being a part of Citadel Space for hundreds of years they remain quite alien to outsiders. The average person would attribute the derisive term 'big stupid jellyfish' to the Hanar, and they wouldn't do anything to dissuade such opinions. They let the galaxy think they are weak and clumsy, but in reality they are more than capable of holding their own; let's not forget that one almost killed Zaeed, and who do you think trains the Drell as assassins?
You say that being alien is more than just appearance, and I agree, but biology and physiology play a huge role in how an alien species distinguishes themselves from the (apparently common) bipedal humanoid form. The Hanar seemingly possess no solid skeleton, and yet they are hefty enough to shove a human sized person around if needed; the scene with Blasto and Shepard pushing each other out of the frame in the Citadel DLC. This fluidity means that the Hanar can approach certain situations from entirely different angles than Humans or Turians could; Hanar likely wouldn't ever feel claustrophobic due to their capability to squeeze through extremely small openings (for example). Likewise, their unique anatomy would color how they approach design for things like weapons and tools, which would therefore color how they would confront an engineering or scientific problem. People love to make fun of how stupid Blasto looked holding twin Carnifexes, and they are correct that he looked foolish; but he was wielding weapons designed around human ergonomics. How stupid would Shepard look trying to hold a gun designed for a Hanar; would he/she even be able to hold it, much less shoot it?
The Elcor
Spoiler
Out of the three species listed the Elcor are the most human-like in their culture and speech (forgoing the monotone and descriptors), but even they have a distinctness that sets them apart from the other races. Their slow, methodical nature means that as a whole the Elcor generally posses a greater degree of patience regarding social interactions. The intra-species communication between the Elcor is far more encompassing than communication with Humans or Quarians, and as such they have a great degree of subtly they can bring to a discussion. People like to assume that the Elcor are mentally slow because of their speech, but who's to say that an Elcor diplomat couldn't easily use his slow, ponderous speech to get people to agree to Elcor favoring deals? Kinda like how most people just skip over the terms and agreements document when purchasing insurance (for example).
Likewise the Elcor's hyper dense bone and muscle structure means that they have to temper their actions with other, more 'flimsy' species. The series likes to talk about how slow the Elcor are, about how a simple fall on their home world could be fatal, etc. But the thing is, all the Elcor we've ever met in the series haven't been on their home planet. Sure, an Elcor might have to take it slow on Dekuna, but on a space station with five times less gravity? An Elcor would just have to skip slightly and be propelled 20-30 feet into the air, or lightly shove a Human or Krogan and wind up pushing them across the plaza. A species, that evolved to withstand five times the pressures that the great majority of the other species 'grew up' in is going to be a giant among ants in the strength department. The Krogan might be ferocious, but I would bet dollars to doughnuts that a motivated Elcor could quite literally tear a warlord like Wrex, or a tank born like Grunt to pieces.
Asari were most definitely fan service. They were predominantly strippers, even in multi-racial night clubs.
Why no male dancers? Seemed odd to me, given how open minded the universe appeared in regard to homosexuality and the like.
Asari kinda reminded me of the "sexy aliens" Kirk would often shag throughout Star Trek. I mean....ok.....you created a race of blue skinned runway models. Fan service.
coz femshep likes spelunking. and the game takes place on a tuesday..girls night is on wendsdays.
Asari were most definitely fan service. They were predominantly strippers, even in multi-racial night clubs.
Why no male dancers? Seemed odd to me, given how open minded the universe appeared in regard to homosexuality and the like.
Asari kinda reminded me of the "sexy aliens" Kirk would often shag throughout Star Trek. I mean....ok.....you created a race of blue skinned runway models. Fan service.
Heck, even the game Witcher 3 had male prostitutes in whorehouses. And this comes from a middle age-like era. But in future? in different universes? No no no, we've never heard of male strippers.
What i'm hoping with asari is to see more of them doing different things for once (they did but we never seen them on screen) and not dancing only.
Asari were most definitely fan service. They were predominantly strippers, even in multi-racial night clubs.
Why no male dancers? Seemed odd to me, given how open minded the universe appeared in regard to homosexuality and the like.
Asari kinda reminded me of the "sexy aliens" Kirk would often shag throughout Star Trek. I mean....ok.....you created a race of blue skinned runway models. Fan service.
First of all, saying "There's sexy women, why aren't there sexy men" is shallow perspective that doesn't bother to look at the ideals driving gender in society. There are reasons why these things happen. Not only in fiction, but in real life. And I'm somewhat irritated by you basically saying "To be a tolerant society, men must be happy to watch other men being gay."
Second of all, no, asari were not predominantly strippers, strippers were predominantly asari. Big difference.
Thirdly, asari were absolutely put in to bring females into the aliens of the game. But you seriously aren't claiming that the females being sexy is somehow unique to Mass Effect and not, say, just about every 'epic' science fiction and fantasy story ever made and the majority of the other genres? Females being attractive is an absolute staple of fiction.
What i'm hoping with asari is to see more of them doing different things for once (they did but we never seen them on screen) and not dancing only.
You mean like Liara, Samara, Shiala, the councilor, Vasir, detective Anaya, all the asari commandos you kill in the game and their psycho leaders? I'd say Aria counts too.
Though yeah, LOTS of asari strippers... at first I strongly disliked the asari for this ridiculous fanservice. But now they are my favorite race. It's kind of perception thing. Just because you see so many strippers doesn't mean the majority of them are. It's a stereotype that the games play with. If one can get past that, the asari are a fascinating, highly sophisticated, smart race. They obviously have a rather peaceful society, and not because they sex up everyone. The protheans saw a lot of potential in those blue babes. And they were right. The reapers could not have been beaten without Liara's genius.
Yes, humans were the special snowflake in the end. But so were the asari. Javik implies that they guided and protected the asari not only against other primitive races but also to become the hope for the next cycle. Which pretty much contradicts what Vigil said on Ilos.
Bioware muddied the water when they put so much emphasis on humans AND the asari as races of "special" interest.
The Asari are a bit of a mess. As I understand it, they were intended as a bit of a subversion of the blue skinned alien space babe thing, though of course the sort of subversion that still lets you still have scantily clad alien space babes. The whole stripper thing was supposed to be contrasted against the fact that they were excellent scientists, badass warriors, wealthy businesspeople and influential diplomats etc.
But that made them seem like rather a race of mary sues, so they started being deconstructed. And, among other things, this led to "Asari are strippers" switching from a mistaken impression of outsiders to something that seemed like we were supposed to take seriously as a criticism of their society. And meanwhile the other things they were good at got "explained" by the prothean beacon, or just weren't really followed through on.
You mean like Liara, Samara, Shiala, the councilor, Vasir, detective Anaya, all the asari commandos you kill in the game and their psycho leaders? I'd say Aria counts too.
Though yeah, LOTS of asari strippers... at first I strongly disliked the asari for this ridiculous fanservice. But now they are my favorite race. It's kind of perception thing. Just because you see so many strippers doesn't mean the majority of them are. It's a stereotype that the games play with. If one can get past that, the asari are a fascinating, highly sophisticated, smart race. They obviously have a rather peaceful society, and not because they sex up everyone. The protheans saw a lot of potential in those blue babes. And they were right. The reapers could not have been beaten without Liara's genius.
Yes, humans were the special snowflake in the end. But so were the asari. Javik implies that they guided and protected the asari not only against other primitive races but also to become the hope for the next cycle. Which pretty much contradicts what Vigil said on Ilos.
Bioware muddied the water when they put so much emphasis on humans AND the asari as races of "special" interest.
That's what i meant basically, you just worded it much better than I could. The game mostly forces you to see them as fanservice... less of that stupid stereotype and lets see more asari like Aethyta, Aria, Shiala etc. More asari mechanics, more scientists, more of everything else than "lol dancers". Bioware generally failed with the asari in some parts, especially this horrible Thessia mission.
All those asari you named are the exceptions, sadly, as I said in my first post. I'd like to see less fanservice with the asari and more of what the game describes that they are.
Also i'd like them to slow down with the arrogance, almost all of the asari appear to be "high and mighty". I'm pretty sure there are different asari, no?
Also i'd like them to slow down with the arrogance, almost all of the asari appear to be "high and mighty". I'm pretty sure there are different asari, no?
I guess the protheans taught them well.
Seriously though, by my understanding they are the most influential race of this cycle. They dominate the galaxy. Not with brute force like the protheans did, but they enjoy a lot of power too. Power makes people arrogant. So I guess it's fitting.
In a sense, they "colonize" the galaxy too by genetic annihilation. Biologically the asari are cancer. They turn everything into new asari. Which is pretty scary. It's quite ironic that everyone is so scared of the krogan taking over the galaxy but we don't hear anybody worried about asari domination. If they wanted to, they could do the same. The galaxy just got lucky that the asari are not particularly aggressive. That is the key difference in the perception of threat.
But yeah, I'm all for an asari that provides a different outlook on asari supremacy. There were hints at it on Illium. I think it was Kasumi? How most people don't ever see the ugly side of asari society. So show it to us, Bioware!
The asari have been way too perfect so far. Something's gotta be wrong with that picture... of course now that we're going to Andromeda, none of that matters anymore. *sigh*
Is it weird that I don't see Asari as women so much as squid-headed blue aliens?
I mean, the whole concept of gender in aliens is kind of irrelevant from a human perspective. That's something I think wasn't addressed at all in ME, and I think it's more of a concern. Who cares about alien genders? What I care about is why do they all have the same as us? Why can't they be more alien?
In a sense, they "colonize" the galaxy too by genetic annihilation. Biologically the asari are cancer. They turn everything into new asari. Which is pretty scary.
Um, ahem.
Jokes aside, maybe because the asari don't populate as much as krogan do? EDI did say at some point that krogans can give thousand births a year max? I forgot the exact number, bear with me, but i'm pretty sure the numbers were extremely large.
But yeah, I don't get the concept of asari going with other species instead of their own, to prevent the "genetic annihilation" as you say. They should just remain asarisexual. But I guess they had to make them romanceable for Shepard.
Or they could go with the idea of them being unable to mate with other species apart from their own. Oh wells.
Jokes aside, maybe because the asari don't populate as much as krogan do? EDI did say at some point that krogans can give thousand births a year max? I forgot the exact number, bear with me, but i'm pretty sure the numbers were extremely large.
It was one thousand fertilized eggs per Krogan female.
But yeah, I don't get the concept of asari going with other species instead of their own, to prevent the "genetic annihilation" as you say.
Less genetic diversity, if they mate with their own species, a higher risk of an Ardat-Yakshi offspring, and, perhaps, the fear of the other being an Ardat-Yakshi.
Jokes aside, maybe because the asari don't populate as much as krogan do? EDI did say at some point that krogans can give thousand births a year max? I forgot the exact number, bear with me, but i'm pretty sure the numbers were extremely large.
But yeah, I don't get the concept of asari going with other species instead of their own, to prevent the "genetic annihilation" as you say. They should just remain asarisexual. But I guess they had to make them romanceable for Shepard.
Or they could go with the idea of them being unable to mate with other species apart from their own. Oh wells.
Honestly, it never made sense to me why purebloods have a risk of being or conceiving ardat yakshi, and therefore purebloods are frowned upon by society. What society discriminates against sex with their own kind? O_o I mean, how did they reproduce before space flight? With trees??
Now there are almost no ardat yakshi anymore because of this stigma, but before the asari met other species the number must have been much higher. Strange thing. You'd think it would be the opposite, that using non-asari DNA has a risk of mutation...
Kind of feels like a lame excuse to introduce them as very, uh, open-minded sex goddesses.
Yes, the krogan can reproduce scary-fast. I cured the genophage, but it still makes me nervous. The thing is though, like a possible aggressive asari dominance, they do not HAVE to reproduce like crazy. I'm sure that if they hadn't been uplifted and introduced to the galactic society too early, they would have outgrown their aggression AND regulated reproduction. No race can survive on one planet like that. And they almost didn't. Food got scarce. They started nuking each other. The same thing might happen to humanity in real life.
I still think it's unfair to condemn a race by potential alone.
Less genetic diversity, if they mate with their own species, a higher risk of an Ardat-Yakshi offspring, and, perhaps, the fear of the other being an Ardat-Yakshi.
I think this is bull, since the asari kept mating with their own species way before other species were found and they survived pretty great. And yet the AY condition still remained rare. Not so much rare as now, but still rare.
And when they started mating with other species, suddenly, taboo?
And when they started mating with other species, suddenly, taboo?
As far as I know, yeah. Doesn't make a lot of sense though. It is possible that a lot of mothers of pureblood children are like Erinya(http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Erinya).
You'd think it would be the opposite, that using non-asari DNA has a risk of mutation...
Kind of feels like a lame excuse to introduce them as very, uh, open-minded sex goddesses.
Yeah, that would make sense than "lol other species have much better DNA than us so lets start mating with them to prevent an already rare condition hurr durr"....
This and the inability to mate with other species would make a lot more sense but we all know why Bioware did this: pure fanservice. And they had to think some weak excuse so that Liara could be available to Shepard.
I love the asari and my favorite romance is actually Liara, but I'd still love them even if they were unromanceable.
As far as I know, yeah. Doesn't make a lot of sense though. It is possible that a lot of mothers of pureblood children are like Erinya(http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Erinya).
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