111 réponses à ce sujet

[Broganisity]

Ammo was turned into Heat Sinks; I am almost certain a story could be created.

Actually, ammo still comes from the microscopic shavings from a large ammo block inside each (standard) gun. All that changed was the system that was used from preventing the gun from melting. Originally the gun would stop working after heated to a certain point to prevent this, but the new system implemented into newer guns allowed a gunman to send more rounds downrange faster by implementing the heat sink system, which would absorb the heat of the gun and could then be ejected and a new one popped in.

However, to prevent the guns from being too heavy, the 'overheat' system was removed from the guns, which leads to the problem of: 'what happens when you're out of heat sinks?'. (this is where you beat people to death with your gun.)

Gameplay makes this more annoying as the heat sink system used was a standard 'ammo' system and not truly a 'heat sink' system in that you had, in theory, significantly more heat sinks than you should conceivably be able to carry if you just kept firing one shot from a gun with a large clip then reloading to pop in a new one.And if you are carrying more than one weapon this problem increases given that Heat Sinks are of a universal design. . .Such is the wonder of Lore vs. Gameplay.

 

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Melees should just be made into a customize-able melee system and not take up a 'gun' slot. As to how the logic of melee weapons would work in the Mass Effect series? Here is the codex entry for Omni-Tool Weapons. Melee systems for tech have existed for a long time (and the Talon Mercenary Engineer has apparently been using the Omni-Bow since before the Reaper War) and are used to save space and reduce the burden carried by a fighter, but even then 'standard melee weapons' are still made and used in the event of a systems failure as is shown by the wearing of knives by Turians, Quarians, and Batarians. Bayonets are still fashioned in their standard metal forms and attached to rifles and shotguns, and the omni-bayonet is also a reality. Most of these, however, were only brought back into usage during the Reaper War because of the large amounts of close combat infantry AKA Husks. Unless similar situations are prevalent enough in Andromeda (which they very well could be given the teaser) melee combat won't be as exciting as beating people with a giant pointy stick with fire coming out of it.

Riot Shields are used best against poorly armed civilians, as shown by how 'wondrously useful' they are against people with armor-piercing rounds. Kai Leng and his Phantom Ladies are the product of Sci-Fi cheese, but the phantoms are moreso hated for their palm blaster rather than their swords (which even then is only because of the sync kills).

In the world of Mass Effect, I only see the following 'pre-firearm era' weapons making any real sense and only in certain forms:

- Melee Weapons (General): Omni-tool weapons exist to reduce encumbrance of soldier while still allowing for emergency melee situations.
 

- A single knife: Largely ceremonial amongst Turians, still something carried by mercenaries and survivalists. More dexterous than an omni-blade and thus not just used for combat situations. Expecting to win a straight on fight with one is suicide. Could be used for moves like Shadow Strike. At most I can see this extending to a one handed short sword, don't expect to run around with a claymore while shooting a claymore and placing claymore mines.
 

- A Riot Shield: Best against civilians who can't do much but throw stuff at you. Useless against anyone with armor-piercing rounds, biotics, or really anything else besides a bottle of Serrice Ice Brandy. An omni-shield, however, deflects most attacks before shattering and thus is more viable. . .they just have to rework the mechanics to its usage.
 

- Being a Krogan: Krogan are strong, fast, and durable. They don't even really need a melee weapon since, as far as other races are concerned, they are a melee weapon. Their durability means they can afford to fight up close-and-personnel more so a larger melee weapon may be a boon to them, but a shotgun still works wonders.
 

 

 

(Announcer codex voice) In the year 2190, the Alliance created an advanced bow and arrow made of a plasteel alloy with stealth properties to allow explosives and gadgets to be launched without the user being easily detectable. Because of its low cost, easy to produce, and easily modable body, the bow and arrow still see limited use on missions where other weapons would be overkill.

Omni-Tools are used for this very purpose either through silent sabotage of enemy tech, weapons like the Omni-Bow, or tools like grenades. It's all about saving space on the user's body, letting the omni-tool do most of the work while leaving the operator's body largely free for other things such as movement, evasion, and a quick return to gunfire. Weapons like the Locust (a silenced SMG) and Suppressor (a pistol) also serve as silenced, lightweight weapons used for quick, long-range, and stealthy take-downs without overly exposing the wielder.

[CrutchCricket]

(Announcer codex voice) In the year 2190, the Alliance created an advanced bow and arrow made of a plasteel alloy with stealth properties to allow explosives and gadgets to be launched without the user being easily detectable. Because of its low cost, easy to produce, and easily modable body, the bow and arrow still see limited use on missions where other weapons would be overkill.

Thing is you could probably design a less ostentatious device to do the same thing.

 

Given what we know, I think a more plausible way to go about it is to make it exotic alien tech. Or, since the game might have a frontier feel, have the construction be improvised (thinking of the HL2 crossbow).

[Larry-3]

I can easily imagine some kind of special mission types where you would need more unorthodox weapons.

I wanted to slash the husk that always charged me in Mass Effect 2. Me swinging my rifle did almost nothing.

[Amplitudelol]

(Announcer codex voice) In the year 2190, the Alliance created an advanced bow and arrow made of a plasteel alloy with stealth properties to allow explosives and gadgets to be launched without the user being easily detectable. Because of its low cost, easy to produce, and easily modable body, the bow and arrow still see limited use on missions where other weapons would be overkill.

 

[Announcer codex voice) In the year 2191, the Alliance gave up on manufacturing the advanced bow and arrow made of steel because awesome superior space guns are just simply a lot better. However an individual called Kai Leng refused to use the awesome new space weaponry and was killed in combat during the raid on the main Cerberus facility because he went up against the Shepard and his crew fully equipped with proper space guns. That battle was the last time space katana was seen in the known galaxy.

[Larry-3]

If I get surrounded by banshee-like enemies again, I was to drop my pistol and pull out a sharp staff, and start cutting off their heads. A knife attached to a gun will not do it for me.

I am not stating that melee weapons should be a main choice; only optional. If it was up to me I would equip an MP for when I am in cover, and some type of energy staff for when I am surrounded. In Mass Effect 3 I got tired of constantly holding a rifle and shotgun the whole time. I want to branch out. BioWare told people they can do more with this gaming generation than with X-box 360 and PS3. Why not add more to combat?

[Larry-3]

[Announcer codex voice) In the year 2191, the Alliance gave up on manufacturing the advanced bow and arrow made of steel because awesome superior space guns are just simply a lot better. However an individual called Kai Leng refused to use the awesome new space weaponry and was killed in combat during the raid on the main Cerberus facility because he went up against the Shepard and his crew fully equipped with proper space guns. That battle was the last time space katana was seen in the known galaxy.

So much for challenging ones self.

[shodiswe]

Toothbrush?

[Larry-3]

Toothbrush?

Ha ha ha!!

[Indigenous]

Are you purposefully being obtuse?

 

Why should I use a bow and arrow (even a "space" bow and arrow) when I can just shoot someone with a gun? How does the space bow and arrow work and what are its advantages over a lead metal shaving salad?

Google modern bow and arrow and tell me what advantage it has over guns.

 

You wanted the background for well known weapons/tools, I just pointed this out.

 

Don't get hostile.

 

 

(Announcer codex voice) In the year 2190, the Alliance created an advanced bow and arrow made of a plasteel alloy with stealth properties to allow explosives and gadgets to be launched without the user being easily detectable. Because of its low cost, easy to produce, and easily modable body, the bow and arrow still see limited use on missions where other weapons would be overkill.

I don't think anyone would announce except for maybe a weapons merchant who didn't previously have them in stock. Otherwise we should assume that people are just as diverse in the Mass Effect universe as they are in ours.

[Broganisity]

If I get surrounded by banshee-like enemies again, I was to drop my pistol and pull out a sharp staff, and start cutting off their heads. A knife attached to a gun will not do it for me.

You're right, trying to cut off a group of Banshee heads with a bayonet doesn't work. Thinking you can survive a melee fight, regardless of weapon, against a bunch of Banshees doesn't work. You either are smart and run, saving melee opportunities for other enemy types or you get sync-killed by magnet hands.

We are not Space Ninjas. This is not Warframe. The closest we'll get to a bow is the Kishook Harpoon Launcher, or the Graal Spike Launcher, or perhaps we'll get a collapsible crossbow that shoots omni-bolts. . .but old fashioned melee combat just doesn't work out in the soldier's favor in the world of mass effect without cutscene magic.

[MrFob]

Toothbrush?

 

Oh, we've been there:

[StealthGamer92]

If I get surrounded by banshee-like enemies again, I was to drop my pistol and pull out a sharp staff, and start cutting off their heads. A knife attached to a gun will not do it for me.

I am not stating that melee weapons should be a main choice; only optional. If it was up to me I would equip an MP for when I am in cover, and some type of energy staff for when I am surrounded. In Mass Effect 3 I got tired of constantly holding a rifle and shotgun the whole time. I want to branch out. BioWare told people they can do more with this gaming generation than with X-box 360 and PS3. Why not add more to combat?

By your sitiuation presented and wanting a more unusual weapon, you would want a Katana or Broadsword...a staff would just get you killed faster and you'd die when surounded anyway if Bioware was trying to make a good game and not a game mostly aimed at delivering the power fantasy high that ME1, 2, & 3 did, which is the largest thing that soured the ME3 ending as all those big decision's were so big they had to either be ignored or made practically meaningless to acknowledge them. Yes they can do more, but shoving everything they can imagine in will not make MEA a better game likely, in fact more likely it will feel shalow and disrespectful to many player's who will then leave ME and let those who enjoy the disrespect stay until the franchise die's or set's itself straight. Look at history. CoD is dieing and they are too lazy to do the work to save it and just abusing the loyal player's left and right down to shamelessly copying other poular title's idea's and lazily doing so at that, do we want that with ME? Because if we start asking them to do this lazy, lore abrasive, and gimick-y crap they'll all too hapilly oblige without thought for the franchises future in hope's of a few extra short term sale's.

[Larry-3]

If I wanted another 3rd person only shooter, I would not have made this thread. I like RPG's because they have a different approach to things. But alright, fine. Enjoy holding your rifles and hitting enemies with the butt of your weapon. You people really take the fun out of combat, though.

[SpaceLobster]

old fashioned melee combat just doesn't work out in the soldier's favor in the world of mass effect without cutscene magic.

Biotic hammer was quite effective, especially against geth once their shields were vaporized. I don't think battle hammers were common in medieval times, but Krogan don't (need to) know that.

[CrutchCricket]

Google modern bow and arrow and tell me what advantage it has over guns.

 

You wanted the background for well known weapons/tools, I just pointed this out.

 

Don't get hostile.

Take your own advice and give me examples of bows being used as primary weapons in modern military, or any form of combat, or anything outside hunting or sport (tournaments). They most you'll find is some countries using crossbows, some as a psychological deterrent (the 5-0 in China's crazy apparently) or in some cases stealth takedowns. I would think a air tranq pistol would do the job just as well, but range and penetration might actually favor crossbows in some cases. In any case crossbows are still specialty weapons, not standard issue and you won't find many uses for them that a modern firearm can't cover more effective, more cost effectively and with less skill requirements.

 

Your initial reply appeared condescending. If you didn't mean it as such, I apologize and we can proceed in a civil tone. I wasn't talking about real life background, I was talking about the necessary game lore needed to make these obsolete weapons, not only practical but advantageous in some way. Every other franchise that uses archaic or melee weapons in modern or futuristic settings has some additional lore that makes it viable. Jedi have the Force, other characters have some equivalent mix of super speed, super reflexes and or prescience, whether powered by magic or technology.

 

Funny enough, I can now think of a use for crossbows in the ME setting, but it depends on the velocity kinetic barriers activate on. If a bolt travels below the speeds required to trigger your shields, then it effectively ignores them. No doubt it'd be a temporary advantage only, as shield programs would upgraded to compensate for this once the vulnerability is apparent.

[SpaceLobster]

Funny enough, I can now think of a use for crossbows in the ME setting, but it depends on the velocity kinetic barriers activate on. If a bolt travels below the speeds required to trigger your shields, then it effectively ignores them. No doubt it'd be a temporary advantage only, as shield programs would upgraded to compensate for this once the vulnerability is apparent.

Yep, that would work in ME1, but not in ME2/3 style of logic, since kinetic barriers in ME2/3 need to be vaporised before any actual damage can be inflicted. In ME2/3 melee attacks damage the player's shields, whereas in ME1 melee attacks applied damage directly to health, just like the poison spit from the Rachni Soldiers/Broodwarriors.

[CrutchCricket]

Yep, that would work in ME1, but not in ME2/3 style of logic, since kinetic barriers in ME2/3 need to be vaporised before any actual damage can be inflicted. In ME2/3 melee attacks damage the player's shields, whereas in ME1 melee attacks applied damage directly to health, just like the poison spit from the Rachni Soldiers/Broodwarriors.

Gameplay wise maybe, but the lore surrounding kinetic barriers hasn't changed has it?

[N7Jamaican]

Eh, not really.  Not saying I don't see a place for it, but it seems like a fantasy RPG with SCI-FI elements.  Might as well call this Dragon Effect: Andromeda Inquisition.

[SpaceLobster]

Gameplay wise maybe, but the lore surrounding kinetic barriers hasn't changed has it?

What is the points of equipping a bow? According to you, it allows for easy by-passing of kinetic barriers. Now, if that is the reason/excuse for including it in-game, only to have that not work, would make it completely useless(in theory), wouldn't it?

[CrutchCricket]

What is the points of equipping a bow? According to you, it allows for easy by-passing of kinetic barriers. Now, if that is the reason/excuse for including it in-game, only to have that not work, would make it completely useless(in theory), wouldn't it?

Err... why wouldn't it work? If we're designing for it, of course it will work. It works, because that's the whole purpose behind the weapon. It's a specialty weapon, likely with reduced ammo/rate of fire that ignores shields. You could design an entire enemy around it as well, and its shield ignoring properties would make it an elite and a priority target.

 

I ask about the lore because as I know it, it would support this choice. If they changed the lore so kinetic barriers are just always space magically on, then the reason to design the weapon is taken away, see?

[N7Jamaican]

I'd prefer my (black) Widow over the bow anyday.

[Former_Fiend]

Well, on the one hand;

 

 

And I do like me some omni-bow. 

 

In seriousness, I've been arguing for stuff like this based on the MP classes to be featured in the game, but I think the OP may be going too far.

[Broganisity]

Biotic hammer was quite effective, especially against geth once their shields were vaporized. I don't think battle hammers were common in medieval times, but Krogan don't (need to) know that.

True.
 

Krogan are their own melee weapon and thus don't apply to my logic given their strength and durability, things which humans sorely lack. (As we are designing the game around a human protagonist we have to take this into account).Taking a broadsword or Battlehammer into a gun fight when you're just a little human is. . .problematic.

When you are a centuries old Lizard Man with redundant organs and an enhanced regenerative factor that kicks things up to twenty when you get pissed off? You could walk onto the battlefield with the magical toothbrush and still win. But even then your melee attacks are accented with weapons fire, and concentrated gunfire on even the Warlord will bring him down fast. . .and of course, the magical Magnet Hands.

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On the topic of making a bow viable, however, the change back to melee/physical damage passing through defenses like we had in Mass Effect 1 would make more sense, off-set by not passing through armor. The lore has not changed in regards to how Kinetic Barriers work. Here is the codex entry. However, a bow is not exactly an easily wield-able weapon, making the crossbow the more effective and logical choice (especially if it fires small bolts in comparison the large harpoons of the Kishok.).

All/most the guns in the series are collapsible and meant to be re-equipped easily. . .I can't see that being possible with a bow unless they made the munition similar to that of the Omni-Bow (thus making it portable and not overly cumbersome to carry around) and made the draw string 'holographic' and operated through physical manipulation. Then you have to figure out how the heat mechanic on the bow would work, regardless of if it is overheated or uses thermal clips, and that's not even considering the equip, un-equip, fire, reload, aim, storm ETC animations. . .A crossbow, being similar in animation and holding to an actual gun in the mass effect series, would still remain the better alternative using small, super-heated bolts to pass through shields and damage an opponent while still being effective (which would make it a small Kishok or a single bolt Graal). . .and still using thermal clips/the overheat mechanic.

If the user is simply trying to silently send a projectile down the lane that will pass through a kinetic barrier, an omni-tool module would work better and allow the operator to keep their main firearm ready while utilizing other abilities (see maneuvers like Ballistic Blades, the oft mentioned Omni-Bow, Multi-Frag Grenades, Overload, Combat Drone, Hex Shield, Tactical Cloak ETC).

[Indigenous]

Take your own advice and give me examples of bows being used as primary weapons in modern military, or any form of combat, or anything outside hunting or sport (tournaments). They most you'll find is some countries using crossbows, some as a psychological deterrent (the 5-0 in China's crazy apparently) or in some cases stealth takedowns. I would think a air tranq pistol would do the job just as well, but range and penetration might actually favor crossbows in some cases. In any case crossbows are still specialty weapons, not standard issue and you won't find many uses for them that a modern firearm can't cover more effective, more cost effectively and with less skill requirements.

 

Your initial reply appeared condescending. If you didn't mean it as such, I apologize and we can proceed in a civil tone. I wasn't talking about real life background, I was talking about the necessary game lore needed to make these obsolete weapons, not only practical but advantageous in some way. Every other franchise that uses archaic or melee weapons in modern or futuristic settings has some additional lore that makes it viable. Jedi have the Force, other characters have some equivalent mix of super speed, super reflexes and or prescience, whether powered by magic or technology.

 

Funny enough, I can now think of a use for crossbows in the ME setting, but it depends on the velocity kinetic barriers activate on. If a bolt travels below the speeds required to trigger your shields, then it effectively ignores them. No doubt it'd be a temporary advantage only, as shield programs would upgraded to compensate for this once the vulnerability is apparent.

Only if you show me the proof of katanas being used as primary weapons in modern military's.

 

I think you may have missed my point. Modern bows and arrows have little advantage over modern guns yet they still exist. Necessary lore? They will just be upgraded versions of the bow and arrow. This is my point the bow and arrow this exists today while offering little to no advantage over guns and it has been modernised.

 

Honestly, only your limited, imagination (not yours specifically) can blind you from seeing all the different ways the bow and arrow can be added to the arsenal of weapons in the Mass Effect universe. I would have liked to have been able to give you an example or two but that would require too much effort from me. You will just have to trust me that there are potential many ways from the bow and arrow to be 'modernised' and added to the Mass Effect Universe.

 

(Wasn't trying to be condescending more like baffled and curious.)

[Chealec]

Only if you show me the proof of katanas being used as primary weapons in modern military's.

 

...

 

Maybe not the modern military, but:

 

 

 

 

 

.... badum, tsssssss!