Aller au contenu

Photo

The Adventurer's Lounge: Guidance and Support for No Reload Challengers- Newbie or Veteran

Débuté par Alesia_BH , août 13 2015 06:12

  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
367 réponses à ce sujet

#276
wing
Posté 05 février 2016 - 09:07

wing
  • Members
  • 42 messages

alrighty Corey, fixed the link

 

-ussnorway- I see, I didn't realize yours was modded. Makes sense now. Don't plan to use that particular mod both because I lack experience with custom tweaks like that and don't feel the need at the moment, but thanks for clarifying.

 

Oh and thanks to Arbane too, I'm playing Vanilla-ish.

 

Weidu here:

Spoiler

 

Though I plan to remove bottomless bags of holding and decrease the number of containers in Amn, as well as going back to traditional BG2 spell animations. Might throw in the randomizer, though that seems to remove much of the strategy for which items to go after/ quests to do early game. It also makes it very difficult to skip a quest you ordinarily wouldn't be interested in doing.


#277
Arbane
Posté 05 février 2016 - 11:43

Arbane
  • Members
  • 6 messages

In vanilla it is +3 - it also has charm immunity and immunity to fear I think. In SoA, the Equalizer and the Blade of Roses are the only +3 long swords that I know of. So even in vanilla it definitely has its uses. Not many things give immunity to fear, so if solo that can be quite helpful, especially for dealing with the 4th pocket plane tear.

 

 

Thing is, there are other longswords you get much earlier in SoA that grant immunity to fear and charm/domination. What Equalizer has going for it is that it's +3, whereas these other longswords are +2, and that it combines the immunities of the 2 in one weapon [edit-actually Equalizer doesn't grant immunity to fear, but rather confusion, which is quite valuable for those who don't use lilarcor or shield of harmony]. Damage output overall is inferior (due to the alignment of target criteria) to several other longswords you get early on (Namara is tops for SoA longswords with 1d8+4 dmg regardless of alignment). If you have BG2Fixpack the Daystar is much more useful (unless you side with Bodhi I suppose) and can hit targets that require +4 to hit (also available early, though you need to deal with a lich which is piece of cake in vanilla, different story with SCS).

 

Overall considering the longswords available early on, how late you get the Equalizer, and what it requires to get it (trip to Underdark, putting together pieces, paying Crowmwell, etc) it's vastly underwhelming. I somewhat understand why ussnorway modded it, though +6... that's quite over the top! :)

 

Wing, that's a pretty good set for a first run through BG2. I'd strongly recommend the next time (or maybe after a couple of runs) SCS with at least the core options for AI. It'll almost play like an entirely different game with enemies actually being intelligent and not being able to do things like take advantage of vanilla dragons that act like morons.vs various tactics.

 

You might want to hold off on Item Randomizer for a few runs (though I use it every time these days) as part of the fun of BG2 at least initially is the shared experience of finding famous (and infamous) items in certain parts of the game (i.e. with Randomizer you might end up being able to put together the Equalizer very early on if you luck out, which completely changes everything I wrote above, or you might never see Namara or Dragonslayer or Celestial Fury). Also of note is that for many folks a core no reload strategy is being able to rely on finding specific items at specific stages of the game; Randomizer arguably can have the biggest impact on no reload runs aside from SCS.


  • Serg BlackStrider et wing aiment ceci

#278
wing
Posté 06 février 2016 - 06:26

wing
  • Members
  • 42 messages

Thanks Arbane! I've been playing for a long time, but never stuck with a character long enough to finish TOB. I may move on to SCS pretty soon just for a change to some of the fights. I don't use much cheese, my current reload run is going to be the first time I finish TOB and is the first time I've use the Shield of Balduran, which is outright ridiculous. (useful though!) I think I'll save randomiser for reload runs for the moment and exclude it from NR games. 


#279
Alesia_BH
Posté 06 février 2016 - 06:15

Alesia_BH
  • Members
  • 4 577 messages
Hey there, hi there!

I just noticed Wing's comment on my weapon/proficiency choices. Grond0 is correct: I tend to spread points around, rather than focus on a single proficiency- reason being that I don't commit to a single weapon, or weapon type. Instead, I see my weapon collection as a tool kit, and I seek to choose the right tool for whatever job is at hand. When selecting weapons, immunities and resistances are prime considerations, along with enchantment level. On hit effects, range and speed factor are often important as well.

I consider damage, of course, but, that's usually a second tier consideration, unless my battle plan specifically calls for a certain amount of hurt. My "damage last" approach to weaponry may strike others as odd, but it fits with my playing style. Most players seek to kill their enemies before their enemies can kill them. I seek to be unkillable and then kill, like, when I get around to it. Victory shouldn't be urgent: It should be inevitable.

Now, there is a distinction between the weapons one uses and the weapons one takes proficiencies in. Some players might be inclined to allocate their proficiencies to maximize damage, figuring that they can just grab onto their immunity weapon when it's needed. That sounds nice, but I'm unfond of that approach. In no reload play, the greatest risks are within ourselves. Minimizing the likelihood of player error is crucial. I'd rather have my immunity weapon equipped, and do fractionally less damage, than switch back and forth in battle and risk getting it wrong.

For example, one of my favorite SoA warrior weapon setups is Sword of Arvoreen/Dragonslayer/Sling of Seeking + Shield of Harmony/Refection Shield (bow and tactical ammo at the ready) and I'll happily arrange my proficiencies to facilitate -indeed encourage- it's use. That setup may have middling to poor damage potential, but whatever: It makes my character hard to kill, and it makes me less likely to screw something up. That matters to me, damage less so.

Would I use a more aggressive setup if and when it were safe to do so? Of course. But it's safety first. When I pick weapons, the questions typically are: Who am I?; Who am I fighting?; How will I stay alive? I think about damage after that.

Anyhoo, best of luck with your upcoming run, Wing! I hope to follow your adventures.

Best,

A.
  • Serg BlackStrider, Grond0, Grimwald the Wise et 2 autres aiment ceci

#280
wing
Posté 07 février 2016 - 05:54

wing
  • Members
  • 42 messages

Welcome Alesia!

 

After reading much of the NR thread on this forum, my current research and reload playthrough with a F/C has relied on most of that setup. Sling of Seeking has proven to be incredibly potent, particularly when paired with DUHM and Righteous Magic. Harmony and Reflex were used throughout most of SoA, eventually adding Sentinel to the mix when I felt pure AC was all that was needed. Is Holy Power of any use with a multiclass F/C? EDIT: Who already has 19 natural STR and obviously fighter thac0 for fighter level approximately equal to cleric level?

 

Very happy to see your response to my questions, and wonderful to hear from you.

 

Thanks all, I think most of my questions are answered for now. Best of luck to you all.


  • Alesia_BH aime ceci

#281
Alesia_BH
Posté 07 février 2016 - 10:13

Alesia_BH
  • Members
  • 4 577 messages

Welcome Alesia!

 

Thanks. I may post a bit over the next few days. I'm still traveling, but for the time being I'm chillin' in hotel room, prepping for a trip to the Galapagos. I've got a little time.


 

After reading much of the NR thread on this forum, my current research and reload playthrough with a F/C has relied on most of that setup. Sling of Seeking has proven to be incredibly potent, particularly when paired with DUHM and Righteous Magic. Harmony and Reflex were used throughout most of SoA, eventually adding Sentinel to the mix when I felt pure AC was all that was needed.

 

Seeking rocks. It's my favorite BG-II weapon. And shields are under-appreciated, in my estimation. I agree that the Sentinel is a keeper, at least in SoA. The Reflex and Harmony are central pieces in my mage fighting kit. The Dragon Shield can help, too.


 Is Holy Power of any use with a multiclass F/C? EDIT: Who already has 19 natural STR and obviously fighter thac0 for fighter level approximately equal to cleric level?

 

Holy Power sets strength to 18/00, grants the THAC0 of a fighter, and adds 1HP per level. So, your buffed F/C would get some extra hit points, basically. That's not useless, although it's not exactly overwhelming either. I could see myself using HP, if I had L4s to spare, but it would often get crowded out, I suspect, in the early/mid game.

 

Caveat: A little birdy once told me that the Holy Power THAC0 modification was implemented as a flat +4. That doesn't appear to be the case in my install, but if it is in yours, Holy Power could be more useful. Check.

 

Anyhoo. Time for me to skid-dadle.

 

Good hunting, Wing!

 

Best,

 

A.


  • Serg BlackStrider, Grimwald the Wise et wing aiment ceci

#282
Grimwald the Wise
Posté 08 février 2016 - 08:24

Grimwald the Wise
  • Members
  • 2 175 messages

Strength of one/DUHM/Righteous Magic makes quite a powerful combination.

 

When Aerie casts that she has Str 24, Dex 20, Con 12.

 

That's impressive!


#283
Arbane
Posté 09 février 2016 - 07:48

Arbane
  • Members
  • 6 messages

Sling of Seeking works entirely differently in BG2EE it seems; all slings in EE have str modifier to dmg applied. Sling of Seeking is no longer unique in that way; instead it gets an additional property that makes it like a scaled down tasheron's bow, automatically firing +1 bullets if you do not load it with any ammo.

 

I'm not sure if I like the change or not  honestly, but I believe it is closer to pnp implementation of slings in both 2e and subsequent editions.


  • Grimwald the Wise aime ceci

#284
Alesia_BH
Posté 10 février 2016 - 03:19

Alesia_BH
  • Members
  • 4 577 messages


Strength of one/DUHM/Righteous Magic makes quite a powerful combination.

 

When Aerie casts that she has Str 24, Dex 20, Con 12.

 

That's impressive!

 

 

Yuppers. And if you want to take your Aerie buffing up a notch you can try this: totally invulnerable Wish buffed tank of doom Aerie.  :P

 

Screen%20capture%209_zps0sgmvotp.jpg

 



Sling of Seeking works entirely differently in BG2EE it seems; all slings in EE have str modifier to dmg applied. Sling of Seeking is no longer unique in that way

 

 

Yuppers, again. I'm ambivalent about that change. It's a boon for slingers, and I like slings. At the same time, developer intent was clear in the original game, and the mechanic wasn't problematic. If it aint' broke, you know?

 

In the end, whatever, I guess. I'm content to play it either way.

 

Best,

 

A.


  • Serg BlackStrider et Grimwald the Wise aiment ceci

#285
Arbane
Posté 10 février 2016 - 06:36

Arbane
  • Members
  • 6 messages

Love that screenshot! I love the idea of taking Aerie, a fragile, unsure character with issues and 30 hps, and if you're patient enough with her, eventually she can become such a capable powerhouse.

 

It's similar to the protagonist's own story and probably one of the things that's intriguing about the bg series - taking a lvl 1 pc that can die to a lone kobold arrow and watching him grow through a long journey to wield immense power.


  • Grimwald the Wise aime ceci

#286
Jianson
Posté 20 février 2016 - 08:42

Jianson
  • Members
  • 377 messages

Just a small tip for BG1 no-reloaders that use the 'Dark Side based kobold upgrade' of SCS (or Dark Side of the Sword Coast itself, I suppose...): when you're a frail party/character and want to travel to Nashkel Carnival, always go to Nashkel first, then to the Carnival. There is no travel time betwen those two maps and you can't get waylaid, and it guarantees that you end up in a safe spot (W edge) instead of getting dumped at the northern edge, usually right by a large kobold pack with more than one Commando.


  • ussnorway aime ceci

#287
Grimwald the Wise
Posté 20 février 2016 - 10:32

Grimwald the Wise
  • Members
  • 2 175 messages

@ Jianson

Whilst this is true later in the game, my experience is that if you go straight towards the carnival avoiding enemies at the beginning of the game, you do not get ambushed the first time that you get there. You can then sleep and sleep and sleep until you are able to heal yourself.


  • ussnorway aime ceci

#288
wing
Posté 23 février 2016 - 06:14

wing
  • Members
  • 42 messages
Hey guys, copy pasting a query from a Reddit friend since several of you have moved on to EE:

Hi everyone, I've posted here quite a bit before and I'm a total IE aficianado but I haven't actually played BG2 in like a decade.

Since I can't find my discs anywhere, I've resigned myself to buying the game (again). My first question is whether I should buy the regular game or the Enhanced Edition? From what I gather the Enhanced Addition incorporates things that in the past you'd need the G3 fixpack and Baldurdash to fix, and it adds new companions and some content. Money is not an issue, so I'm mostly looking for stability and ease of use, but also mod compatability.

I used to always play with Tactics, Sword Coast Stratagems, and other difficulty-enhancing mods (something called Moonfruit's improved encounters, I think?), as well Item Upgrade, EaseOfUse, Unfinished Business, Tutu, and so on. Are those mods still around, still up-to-date? Are there any new mods you'd recommend? I've heard of Improved Anvil but opinions seem divided, how's that mod?

Which of those mods work with EE?

#289
Aasim
Posté 23 février 2016 - 10:45

Aasim
  • Members
  • 1 361 messages

 My first question is whether I should buy the regular game or the Enhanced Edition? 

I had both, then deleted EE permanently. I'm sure it will eventually get better; but for me it's (was) very dissapointing. 

 

 

 From what I gather the Enhanced Addition incorporates things that in the past you'd need the G3 fixpack and Baldurdash to fix, and it adds new companions and some content. Money is not an issue, so I'm mostly looking for stability and ease of use, but also mod compatability.

The fact that in "incorporates" stuff is both good and bad. not all of Fixpack is "fixing". There's a lot of tweaks there; which may or may not be per everyone's liking. I personally use cca 30% of Fixpack. 

 

I used to always play with Tactics, Sword Coast Stratagems, and other difficulty-enhancing mods (something called Moonfruit's improved encounters, I think?), as well Item Upgrade, EaseOfUse, Unfinished Business, Tutu, and so on. Are those mods still around, still up-to-date? Are there any new mods you'd recommend? I've heard of Improved Anvil but opinions seem divided, how's that mod?

Which of those mods work with EE?

Most of mods are EE-compatible. Improved Anvil is ok. Bit on the Final Fantasy wombo-uber-combo-OP-me-OP-you cheese side, but ok if you're into such stuff. EE compatible, but incompatible with 99% of other mods. I find it too narrow (it's either Ranger or Necro protagonist) and I hate double standards which are abduant there.


#290
wing
Posté 24 février 2016 - 03:08

wing
  • Members
  • 42 messages
Thanks aasim! I will show this to my friend.

#291
Grond0
Posté 24 février 2016 - 01:46

Grond0
  • Members
  • 6 487 messages

Spell saves and specialist mages

 

Following my whining about our last multi-player game being ended by a symbol stun from a lich, Dyara pointed out the possibility that the failed save could have been the result of the lich being classed as a specialist mage and applying an additional penalty to the saving throw roll as a result.  I had thought previously that this aspect of AD&D rules had not been implemented in BG.  However ...

 

I did a test in BGEE using blindness from an illusionist against Imoen.  Her spell save was 11, so she would have been expected to save 50% of the time against an unadjusted spell saving throw from a standard mage.  If the spell save were adjusted downwards by 2 to take account of the spell being cast by a specialist she would be expected to save 40% of the time.  Out of an initial 300 attempts:

- she was blinded 177 times (59%) and saved 123 times (41%).

- in itself that is suggestive there is a penalty, though the sample size is too small to be compelling evidence.  However, out of the 123 successful saves there was never a spell saving throw greater than 18 reported.  The chance of that happening randomly is extremely low, so I would describe that as pretty compelling evidence that there is an undisclosed penalty of 2 operating on the initial saving throw roll.

- I just double-checked that the penalty was specific to illusionist spells by casting chromatic orbs at Imoen.  They have a standard adjustment of +6 to the roll and indeed Imoen soon saved with a total of 26.

- I followed that up by quickly doing the same test in BGT, i.e. using the original BG2 engine.  Out of 100 blinding attempts Imoen saved 41 times, but again with a maximum score of 18.

 

Those results are good enough for me to conclude I need in future to only start relying on saving throws when they are 2 better than I had previously thought :blink:.


  • ussnorway, Grimwald the Wise et Jianson aiment ceci

#292
Aasim
Posté 24 février 2016 - 01:49

Aasim
  • Members
  • 1 361 messages

On this - in vanilla game setup, most of mages are kitted as Conjurers (iirc Symbol type spells are Conjuration). If SCS is installed, you'll get Invoker/Enchanter/Conjurer/necromancer. Few named ones are always kitted the same, for others it's random.


#293
Dyara
Posté 24 février 2016 - 02:32

Dyara
  • Members
  • 328 messages

Perhaps a special test spell that applies a number of effects with different saving throw modifiers could shed some light on this. I'm thinking of effect 0x309: 'modify local variable' with variable names depending on the modifier. From looking at the variables set by the spell and the dice roll displayed by the engine it should be possible to determine the DC.


  • Arbane aime ceci

#294
GrimJim
Posté 24 février 2016 - 08:23

GrimJim
  • Members
  • 34 messages

I tested this a while ago and posted my methods and results here. My conclusions were:

  1. To guarantee success against an unmodified save vs. spell, your save needs to be -1 or lower.
  2. To guarantee success against a save vs. spell with a -2 penalty, your save needs to be -1 or lower.
  3. To guarantee success against a save vs. spell with a -4 penalty, your save needs to be -5 or lower.
  4. To guarantee success against an unmodified save vs. death, your save needs to be 1 or lower.

None of my testing involved specialist mages, only innate abilities like umber hulk confusion or on-hit weapon effects like Celestial Fury.

 

I did a test in BGEE using blindness from an illusionist against Imoen.

Could you try a similar test with a non-illusionist casting blindness?

 

EDIT: This is not quite correct. See this post for a better explanation.


Modifié par GrimJim, 05 avril 2016 - 05:24 .

#295
Aasim
Posté 24 février 2016 - 09:28

Aasim
  • Members
  • 1 361 messages

 

  1. To guarantee success against an unmodified save vs. spell, your save needs to be -1 or lower.
  2. To guarantee success against a save vs. spell with a -2 penalty, your save needs to be -1 or lower.

So, save penalty at -2 is the same as no penalty? That's kind of nuts...


#296
Arbane
Posté 24 février 2016 - 10:25

Arbane
  • Members
  • 6 messages

That really is stupid strange if true.

 

The save penalties for specialists was apparently around since BG1 days, just not documented, according to a few folks over on the EE forums.
 

 

I had both, then deleted EE permanently. I'm sure it will eventually get better; but for me it's (was) very dissapointing.

 

 

Same here; I've thought about reinstalling EE because the GUI has some really nice features, but it's got a few too many bugs that are pretty bad at the current stage/patch.

 

Most of the new NPCs are a big disappointment imo.


  • Aasim aime ceci

#297
Grond0
Posté 25 février 2016 - 02:43

Grond0
  • Members
  • 6 487 messages

Could you try a similar test with a non-illusionist casting blindness?

I was pretty sure that this would not have a save penalty and indeed the very first spell cast at Imoen resulted in a save vs spell of 19 - I didn't bother trying any more :P. 

 

Same here; I've thought about reinstalling EE because the GUI has some really nice features, but it's got a few too many bugs that are pretty bad at the current stage/patch.

I feel fairly neutral about which version is better at the moment.  However, the EE is due for a significant patch to tie in with the release of Siege of Dragonspear and hopefully that will sort out some of the annoying bugs.


  • Grimwald the Wise et GrimJim aiment ceci

#298
corey_russell
Posté 31 mars 2016 - 09:23

corey_russell
  • Members
  • 5 289 messages

So, save penalty at -2 is the same as no penalty? That's kind of nuts...

GrimJim and myself did a bunch of tests, and that is what we discovered in how the game actually works. Most of the mages (I had 4 pure mages and an illusionist) I was using were pure mages. Hmm, just now I realized my main character was an illusionist! Uh, oh and I was casting blindness which is of the illusion school. Wouldn't there be a -2 penalty to saves whenever Ruzzel (my illusionist) cast blindness? Because I was casting one after another (to get 100 casts as soon as I could) I really don't know which cast of blindness made Keldorn (my guinea pig) blind. If there is a save penalty then I think that taints my test results - or at least does for the test for spell with no save penalty anyways. The tests with -2 penalty weren't tainted by this as I didn't use illusion spells for that test.


#299
Alesia_BH
Posté 04 avril 2016 - 07:37

Alesia_BH
  • Members
  • 4 577 messages

! Uh, oh and I was casting blindness which is of the illusion school. Wouldn't there be a -2 penalty to saves whenever Ruzzel (my illusionist) cast blindness? 

 

 

Are the save modifiers for specialists really present in non-EE BG II installs? My understanding is that they were planned for the original BGII engine, but left unimplemented.

 

I've heard claims to the contrary, but I've yet to see evidence to that effect.

 

Best,

 

A.


#300
corey_russell
Posté 04 avril 2016 - 08:51

corey_russell
  • Members
  • 5 289 messages

Are the save modifiers for specialists really present in non-EE BG II installs? My understanding is that they were planned for the original BGII engine, but left unimplemented.

 

I've heard claims to the contrary, but I've yet to see evidence to that effect.

 

Best,

 

A.

Alesia: I'm really, really, busy tonight but will try to do the following test tomorrow: I'll use Ruzzel (an illusionist) and try 50 casts of blindness on Keldorn (with his saves at 0), although if he fails I will just stop right there - I'll turn on the save rolls too so I can see that. Then I will try 50 casts of a pure mage on Keldorn, again with his saves at 0. If the pure mage never can make him blind but Ruzzel can, then that might indicate there is indeed a save penalty. 

 

If neither can make him blind then will try 100 casts each although I hope I won't need that many...

 

EDIT: Guess I should mention the install in question for the test will be vanilla SoA with ToB and official ToB patch, no mods.

 

EDIT2: I will be watching the save rolls closely - clearly if Keldorn rolls a 1 against Ruzzel and gets blinded, yet rolls a 1 by a pure mage and saves, that would be rather conclusive evidence (I think) that there is indeed a penalty to saves when a specialist casts from his own school.


Retourner dans Baldur's Gate I & II


  1. The BioWare Forum
  2. → BioWare
  3. → Legacy Games
  4. → Baldur's Gate I & II