247 réponses à ce sujet

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

I don't hate the combat at all.  I dislike that I'm limited to 8 skills when in previous games I could open up the wheel and use any and all skills that had been learned.  I also don't like that BW says they had to limit the use of skills because of the consoles when I used to use all of my skills in DAO and DA2 on a console. 

 

I was never much of a tactics user.  If anything I'm a bit of a micro-manager in that I'll periodically click on each party member and direct him or her to do something as the fight progresses.  But I was never one to go into each person's individual tactics and program them to do x, y and z. 

 

I don't think Bioware said this. The number 8 was chosen due to controllers, but imo they limited the active set for multiplayer.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

beats me.  I enjoy the combat in Inquisition so much.  The thrill of being a rogue and diving out of the way of three hundred tons of angry pot roast...there is nothing like it.  

This.

 

I do miss being able to set conditions for moves via tactics, though. Like, I tend to want to use the upgraded Full Draw for CC purposes, sleeping whoever it hits, but that gets shot to hell if I don't take control of Varric immediately after he looses the shot and re-target him on something else. Otherwise, he just autoattacks right after using the ability and wakes the enemy right back up. :/

 

And I'd like to be able to choose from more than 8 abilities at one time on my mage. Weapon sets could also make a comeback for when I get surprised in an area with enemies around a corner that have completely different vulnerabilities than what the previous mobs have had, necessitating i have my mage change staves. Except now I can't cus inventory is locked out. :/

 

But as far as the combat animations and available abilities to my DD rogue, I love DAI's system.

[Heimdall]

I enjoy the DAI system well enough. I sympathize with those that missed tactics but my only real problem with it was the 8 ability limit.

[AllThatJazz]

The only thing I really don't like about DAI combat is the 8 ability limit. I end up loading all my characters with passives because there's no point in having more than 8 actives. Also, singleplayer could do with a difficulty level above nightmare. Aside from the dlc which are both a decent challenge, nightmare is not nightmarish. Otherwise I find the combat ranges from serviceable to fun.

[TeffexPope]

I really enjoy the combat in DA:I.  Now, I hated the combat in Origins.  Clunky, cumbersome and so difficult that when I'd hit the hard level cap, all I could do was cheese against the AI to finish the game.  

 

I'm not sure what the talk about "old school" RPG combat is referring to, also.  I've been playing RPGs since the 80s, and until I played DA:O, it was always turn based.  

I've never understood where people get the idea that DAO was the pinnacle of RPG combat. All you had to do in a difficult fight was spam healing spells and lyrium potions with a mage. And your unkillable group of people would eventually win through attrition. They changed that in DA2 so that you couldn't use the healing spells as a crutch, and went even further in DAI with the healing potion limits.

 

The main thing I dislike is the limiting of powers. Sure it was silly for my DAO character to have a spell bar that fit the entire length of the monitor, but damnit, I wouldn't feel like I wasted as many points putting points into powers I never use, which is mainly because the 8 powers I've chosen are what I consider the best, even if they're not necessarily good for every single situation. I've never gotten into swapping abilities out for all these different encounters, and my apparent acute short term memory loss ensures that I'll be balls deep in demons before I remember, "Oh yeah, I meant to swap a few different abilities in..."

[Sylvius the Mad]

I've never understood where people get the idea that DAO was the pinnacle of RPG combat. All you had to do in a difficult fight was spam healing spells and lyrium potions with a mage. And your unkillable group of people would eventually win through attrition. They changed that in DA2 so that you couldn't use the healing spells as a crutch, and went even further in DAI with the healing potion limits.

What made DAO fun for me is that there were many different ways to approach it. Sure, what you describe works, but there are other ways to play that work just as well.

As much as I like to replay games playing a different personality, I also like to use different combat tactics each time.

My favourite DAO tactics involved me never taking damage and never drinking potions, because I'd open encounters with overpowered crowd control.

The main thing I dislike is the limiting of powers. Sure it was silly for my DAO character to have a spell bar that fit the entire length of the monitor, but damnit, I wouldn't feel like I wasted as many points putting points into powers I never use, which is mainly because the 8 powers I've chosen are what I consider the best, even if they're not necessarily good for every single situation. I've never gotten into swapping abilities out for all these different encounters, and my apparent acute short term memory loss ensures that I'll be balls deep in demons before I remember, "Oh yeah, I meant to swap a few different abilities in..."

I actually liked how DAI did that. Because we couldn't have access to all of our abilities at once, choosing abilities you weren't going to use (because they were for a different weapon type) had a lowe cost, and since the passives were all weapon agnostic, it was great to be able to take S&S passives with my 2H warriors, knowing that I hadn't wasted the point I spent on Shield Bash because I didn't have space in my bar anyway.

[Iakus]

I wouldn't say I hate DAI's combat, but I'm very much underwhelmed by it.  The tactics in the game are very basic at best.  HEck Tactical Mode is a glorified pause button.

 

And the tactics menu for the AI is a joke.

 

Magic has been streamlined to the point where elemental damage is effectively the only difference between the trees.

 

Dual wielding rogues used to be my favorite class to play.  Now I avoid it like the plague.  I even avoid taking Cole with me unless I want to hear specific lines from him.

 

And yes, mouse and keyboard controls are very awkward.

 

And the 8 ability limit means leveling stops having any meaning somewhere in the teens.

[Iakus]

 

I was never much of a tactics user.  If anything I'm a bit of a micro-manager in that I'll periodically click on each party member and direct him or her to do something as the fight progresses.  But I was never one to go into each person's individual tactics and program them to do x, y and z. 

I loved the tactics menus in DAO and DA2.  I was able to set up exactly when certain abilities were to be used to ensure they weren't wasted.  I was able to squeeze the most out of cross-class combos and healing, area effect spells weren't wasted on single enemies, and the most powerful abilities were saved for stronger foes.  It greatly limited micromanagement while allowing me to make adjustments on the fly.

[Zatche]

I wouldn't say I hate DAI's combat, but I'm very much underwhelmed by it.  The tactics in the game are very basic at best.  HEck Tactical Mode is a glorified pause button.

 

And the tactics menu for the AI is a joke.

 

Magic has been streamlined to the point where elemental damage is effectively the only difference between the trees.

 

Dual wielding rogues used to be my favorite class to play.  Now I avoid it like the plague.  I even avoid taking Cole with me unless I want to hear specific lines from him.

 

And yes, mouse and keyboard controls are very awkward.

 

 

In DAO, you have Cone spells and Big AOE spells that only differ by Elemental Damage. In DAI, the Elemental spells function in wholly different ways. I mean, what in the Fire Tree acts like Static Cage? What in the Lightning Tree acts like Frost Step? Or look at the Passives, like the difference between Chaotic Focus and Mana Surge.

 

I definitely dislike that the number of ability trees went down, but I don't see how you can argue that there's less difference between them.

 

Also, DW Rogues are awesome DPS monsters. They require a bit more cautious damage mitigation, but they're pretty fun when you get the hang of it.

[Iakus]

In DAO, you have Cone spells and Big AOE spells that only differ by Elemental Damage. In DAI, the Elemental spells function in wholly different ways. I mean, what in the Fire Tree acts like Static Cage? What in the Lightning Tree acts like Frost Step? Or look at the Passives, like the difference between Chaotic Focus and Mana Surge.

 

I definitely dislike that the number of ability trees went down, but I don't see how you can argue that there's less difference between them.

 

And there used to be whole trees of glyphs, hexes, and buff spells which are just plain gone.  Now the focus is all on the pew pew.  

 

My favorite schools in DAO where Spirit and Entropy.  Now virtually everything's a damage spell with some status effect as a chaser.  Little room for subtlety.

 

 

Also, DW Rogues are awesome DPS monsters. They require a bit more cautious damage mitigation, but they're pretty fun when you get the hang of it.

My DW rogue, my first DAI character, hasn't been touched since finishing the main story.  My greataxe-wielding warrior is my preferred character now.

[Duelist]

Also, DW Rogues are awesome DPS monsters. They require a bit more cautious damage mitigation, but they're pretty fun when you get the hang of it.

Melee Rogue has always been my favourite and DAI is probably the best time to play one IMO.

And having experienced both Rogue Hawke and Rogue Inquisitor, Rogue Warden feels slow and weak in comparison.

[CronoDragoon]

DW rogue becomes overpowered once fade-touched crafting starts. A DW rogue that builds guard on hit and has a chance to fade cloak on hit is an unhittable dps fiend.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

DW rogue becomes overpowered once fade-touched crafting starts. A DW rogue that builds guard on hit and has a chance to fade cloak on hit is an unhittable dps fiend.

That sounds amazing. Now I'll have to try that. lol

[Zatche]

DW rogue becomes overpowered once fade-touched crafting starts. A DW rogue that builds guard on hit and has a chance to fade cloak on hit is an unhittable dps fiend.

 

I tend to stay away from giving Fade Touched abilities to characters who couldn't obtain them by normal means, just because it seems weird to me. So, I give Cole the guard on hit and the Chance for Hidden Blades(cause there seems to be a plethora of those materials in the game, anyway). Hidden Blades with extra hits is just crazy sauce in terms of DPS.

 

Then, there's Death Blow if you use it at the right time.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

No tactics and 8 slot limit makes it a bore. Also the companions AI makes them completely stupid. I rather go one on one with a dragon with my tempest rogue than bother with a full party sucking up all my potions.

[CronoDragoon]

That sounds amazing. Now I'll have to try that. lol

I have some videos, ill throw some gifs together.

[Sabariel]

The complete lack of useful tactics and behaviors blew my mind. It wouldn't be quite so bad, though, if you could rely on your party's AI. Unfortunately, you can't.

[Jester]

DW rogue becomes overpowered once fade-touched crafting starts. A DW rogue that builds guard on hit and has a chance to fade cloak on hit is an unhittable dps fiend.

Rogue becomes overpowered, once you choose Assassin spec and invest into it a bit.

Building guard and other masterworks are only the icing on the cake, and the cake is made of all enemies instantly dying to Mark of Death (Static Cage) -> Stealth ->Hidden Blades ->spam attack until Mark triggers.

 

This deals such insane amounts of damage, it makes Nightmare a walk in the park. 

I didn't play Descend yet, but the only fight in Jaws of Hakkon (rumored to be punishingly hard), that gave me a brief pause was the one in the temple, against possessed guy.

 

Then I just added Mark of the Rift and Thousand Cuts to the combo, and he didn't manage to do anything. 

Ate his 250+k HP in 10 seconds. 

[Wolven_Soul]

IMO the DA2' CS was far worst than DAI's. 

It is a perfect mix of action and strategy, commands you give in real time ar so immediate that it really feels like an action game, but you can also pause and give orders, or even use slow advancement and give commands depending on the outcomes of the action.

I could'n find a better way to hybridate action and old school strategy. They tried with DA2 and partially failed IMO, but I do like what they accomplished with DAI and I hope they will keep this CS for future games of the series. I think it is very entertaining (for a RPG) and I never get bored of the fighiting, and I'm on my third plathrough already!

 

I wonder what people that complains about CS really expected. It is a classic RPG with modern elements, I find it a good compromise... Ok some action/rpg are certainly more entertaining on this side, but you play with 1 single character, you don't have a team of 4 to give orders... and followers are the focus of the series, so... how would you manage 4 characters in full real time action?

I think BioWare made some mistakes with DAI, but the CS isn't one of them.

 

It was completely boring combat.  They completely neutered it by removing the absolutely excellent tactics that the previous two games had.  Not only that, but they limit you to eight abilities and remove the ability to pause the combat and go into your abilities and use whatever ability you want.  The tactical camera is pointless and not necessary.  The only time I use it is when I need a character to stay somewhere to solve a puzzle.

 

This game desperately needed tactics to.  Especially with the focus abilities that it added.  You either have to go through all the characters and use them yourself, or you have to get used to the fact that they are going to use them on even the lowliest of your enemies.  

 

Then you add things like a Champion's ability to drive an enemy to frenzy, increasing both damage done to them, and by them, and also their ability to ignore all damage for a short time.  These two abilities are excellent to use back to back.  It would have been nice to set Blackwall to use them one after the other.  

 

There are abilities that do extra damage against guard and barriers.  It would have been nice to set those abilities for when a guard or barrier is active among your enemies.  I could go on, but I think I have made my point. 

 

Say what you want about DA:2's combat, at least it wasn't over simplified and dumbed down.

[Jester]

It was completely boring combat.  They completely neutered it by removing the absolutely excellent tactics that the previous two games had.  Not only that, but they limit you to eight abilities and remove the ability to pause the combat and go into your abilities and use whatever ability you want.  The tactical camera is pointless and not necessary.  The only time I use it is when I need a character to stay somewhere to solve a puzzle.  

 

Say what you want about DA:2's combat, at least it wasn't over simplified and dumbed down.

Yeah, the 8 ability system doesn't work.

It's made worse by the fact, that Focus ability takes 1 slot, and you always want to have focus ability, so you have actually 7 slots for the rest. 

The problems is, that there are no situations, when you would swap abilities when out of combat for different builds or something like that, because it's inefficient. It's better to just plan a build ahead, that has precisely 7 activated abilities. 

 

It's often the case, that you have to drop prerequisited abilities when you level up - for example, you replace Immolate with Fire Mine - meaning you don't use at all an ability that you spend points on - and that's a bad design. 

 

Moreover, it forces you to respec, to get back the upgrade point from the ability, that you will no longer be using. 

The whole affair is limiting and tiresome. 

[Wolven_Soul]

 

 

-The tactical camera respects terrain. You couldn't just move your cursor to a hill or to the other side of some rubble, you had to travel your cursor around as if you were a character walking. Pointless annoying and weird.

 

-My biggest issue however was the pants-on-head retarded ai. For one thing pressing hold position NEVER made the party hold position, certain other commands I issued to my party were also ignored pretty regularly. The ranged characters (even if they had zero short range abilities) would run right up into melee range and get killed. There was one fight I had that was absolutely ridiculous with this. For the dragon fight in Crestwood there's this broken structure with stairs and a few broken walls and it was the perfect place to put the squishy characters (the mages and Varric) so they could be out of the way and I could move them behind the walls when the dragon used a long range attack (it also stopped them from being sucked forward) it worked fine on whichever character I was controlling, but as soon as I switched to a different character, that one would run down the stairs and over to the dragon and proceed to use their long range attacks at a short range. This of course got them killed over and over again until I finally just let them be dead and finished the battle with Cassandra and my mage who I was controlling manually. In every other DA I brought a party made of characters I liked and wanted to hear banter and input from. DA:I was the first game where I brought characters that wouldn't die when in melee range.

 

 

 

If I had a quarter for every time an archer or a mage ran up to a dragon and got themselves killed I would probably be living on my own private island by now.

[Wolven_Soul]

Because its different and people hate things that are different.

 

Not me I actually quite like DA:I's combat, though it can get a little tedious having a lot of encounters in succession but such is life in the zone.

 

No, it's bad, and people hate things that are bad.

[Wolven_Soul]

 

 

The tactics system, while a joy for many people for one reason or another, always ended up automating combat to the point of rendering the player input pointless. This reduced the effect of player skill and reflexes during a fight. 

 

Honestly, I don't get why tactics are even needed for this game. I can think of a few reasons, but not enough to justify the backlash. The removal of minor buffs and most sustains effectively removed 90% of the reason why people used them to begin with. The AI already does everything in it needs to do in terms of buffs.

 

Building complex tactics systemscould be rewarding, but then that renders any other complaints about combat irrelevant because you just automated the combat. 

 

 

 

Automated the combat?  I don't agree with that at all.  It automated what your companions do sure, but that just means that you don't have to dictate what they are doing yourself during the combat.    I don't want to have to control my companions, I want to control my character, that's why I made him.  I want to be able to fit my character in with the scheme that I have developed with the tactics.  

 

Though you do made a good point about if an ability is not set into the tactics scheme, it is not used.  I would gladly have that part be involved in future games.  That way they can use their full compliment of abilities, while you set the parameters for how they used the important ones.  

 

Also, I miss the sustains, they added in some pretty neat affects.  I also miss things like the curses and hexes.  Morrigan was able to really dominate a battlefield casting those things.  

 

I actually don't mind the removal of healing magic.  Before it was mandatory to have your mage load up on healing abilities.  If you wanted a combat mage you had to bring along two mages, and I have never liked doing that in any game.  Except BG2 where you could have one who was a cleric/mage.