247 réponses à ce sujet

[Wolven_Soul]

Cassandra soloed the Crestwood dragon for me. I'd engaged the dragon by accident, and it killed everyone else pretty quickly, but then Cassandra stood there with her Guard and hacked away at it for 20 minutes, just auto-attacking with the occasional Shield Wall to build Guard.

Well-managed, Guard builds itself. They don't need Barrier unless they get swarmed.

 

Okay see, the difference there is...you were controlling her, not the AI.  That makes quite the difference.  For me, if I don't barrier her, she goes down pretty quick in fights against dragons or anything else that's tough.  Giants, and especially those ice demons.    

 

Secondly, who in the heck wants to spend twenty freaking minutes on one freaking fight?  You might have managed to pull off soloing with a sword and shield warrior, but it's supposed to be party based combat.  In the end your only proving my point even further about how much barrier is needed to keep the party alive.  

[Wolven_Soul]

That's how Laidlaw described it as working at the early PAX demo. I liked that aspect to it, having to preserve potions, though it worked better for the linear main story missions than it did the open world.

 

Except that it was pretty easy to just warp to a camp to get more potions, and even in dungeons and main missions and such, there were plenty of supply caches to keep you well stocked.

[Zatche]

Except that it was pretty easy to just warp to a camp to get more potions, and even in dungeons and main missions and such, there were plenty of supply caches to keep you well stocked.

Well, yes. That's why I say it didn't work as well in the open world. But even with the supply caches and the ability to fast travel back to camp, the limit kept me focused on better protecting my party, and not just phoning it in on the smaller fights.

[CronoDragoon]

Except that it was pretty easy to just warp to a camp to get more potions, and even in dungeons and main missions and such, there were plenty of supply caches to keep you well stocked.

 

Presumably warping to camps is a bother though, and the player will manage their party in a way to avoid it.

 

On a related note, I do laugh whenever people say the game was super easy and that limited health was awful because they were warping to camps all the time.

[Paul E Dangerously]

Presumably warping to camps is a bother though, and the player will manage their party in a way to avoid it.

 

On a related note, I do laugh whenever people say the game was super easy and that limited health was awful because they were warping to camps all the time.

 

You could say the same with DAO and carrying bucket loads of healing potions (or mana potions to fuel endless healing spells).

 

It's essentially just replaced one level of tedium with another. Now you just either have to spec someone to have Guard, or cart around people to cast Barrier. Plus, the AI doesn't handle it as well as it did healing in DAO, and there's no way you can spec it to go "Cast Barrier on (X) when they're at 20% health)" like you could with abilities/spells in DAO/DA2. Two-hand warriors seem especially fragile until you bludgeon the AI enough so that it actually uses Guard abilities - or find the Fade Touched Item of Guard brokenness.

[Kalas Magnus]

Because it is godamn awful.

 

i play multiplayer. I know exactly how i want each character to play and they dont do it.

 

for example. the iron bull the reaver. I just want him to hit dragon rage. nothing else. what does he do? basic attack.

the knight enchanter. just spam spirit blade and fade cloak. she doesnt do it.

and i can continue to name other things.

such the npc can only use moves they have set to a move slot. they shouldnt have a limit.

 

the combat is so incredibly easy. the game is only difficult because you have poor control of the party.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Okay see, the difference there is...you were controlling her, not the AI.

It's a party-based game. If the combat is even vaguely threatening, I play the whole party.

That makes quite the difference. For me, if I don't barrier her, she goes down pretty quick in fights against dragons or anything else that's tough.

I don't find that's the case. If I make her some decent gear, she mostly holds her own. It's rare she falls in battle, but I also tend to engage at range, so she often doesn't reach the enemy until they're almost dead.

And, as I mentioned, I tend to control the whole party a lot, because I just prefer fighting that way.

[Sylvius the Mad]

You could say the same with DAO and carrying bucket loads of healing potions (or mana potions to fuel endless healing spells).

Something that also wasn't necessary, because DAO had so many crowd control options. Taking damage at all was largely optional in DAO.

It's essentially just replaced one level of tedium with another. Now you just either have to spec someone to have Guard, or cart around people to cast Barrier. Plus, the AI doesn't handle it as well as it did healing in DAO, and there's no way you can spec it to go "Cast Barrier on (X) when they're at 20% health)" like you could with abilities/spells in DAO/DA2. Two-hand warriors seem especially fragile until you bludgeon the AI enough so that it actually uses Guard abilities - or find the Fade Touched Item of Guard brokenness.

It's a party-based game. If you're not playing on lower difficulty settings, why are you letting the AI handle that?

Also, since I tended to bring 2 mages who could cast Dispel just about everywhere, Barrier was always available.

[Lady Ishtar]

Even if you gave it to them, they wouldn't have any shelf room left with all the GOTYs.

I would have no problem with your post except that you probably think it means something?
Of course DAI is GOTY that is precisely why it sux.
Read "general" reviews of DAI.
Now read reviews of good old RPG sites.
By DAO they still had good thing to say about Bioware games (as I did) now with Inquisition it is not even worthy laughing at.
You can't get GOTY pleasing a hundred fans.
For the 1000th, maket wise they were godlike, but unless they give me half their profit so that I can make a new turn based RPG franchise their profit is useless for me and for everybody else that praised the gods for Pillars of Eternity and is anxiously waiting for Sword Coast Legends.
Talking about Bioware GOTY is (and it is the second time I say it) like praising an underground black metal band for winning MTV Video Music Awards. They CLEARLY did domething VERY wrong, because they would NEVER get it if they pleased the fans.
It is obvious, really. Perhaps you need another exemple? A Bioware game being GOTY is like the last book of ASOIAF winning best happy ending children book award. "Oh well great George R. R. Martin thanks! I loved the scene were Daenerys sings with Tyrion, Snow White and Cinderella, my daughter always sings with them!"

[Jester]

It is obvious, really. Perhaps you need another exemple? A Bioware game being GOTY is like the last book of ASOIAF winning best happy ending children book award. "Oh well great George R. R. Martin thanks! I loved the scene were Daenerys sings with Tyrion, Snow White and Cinderella, my daughter always sings with them!"

I know, GOTY is never awarded to good RPGs. Or older BioWare games. Or deep, unconventional, non-mainstream games.

 

Like Deus Ex, Demon's Souls and Dark Souls. Or Mass Effect 2 and Knights of the Old Republic. Or Portal 2.

[Mykel54]

My main problem with combat in this game are the controls for PC.

 

If i stick to action mode, then i miss a lot of control options like "hold" for companions, casting ice wall in the angle i want, or seeing status effects/vulnerabilities/resistances. I also lose auto-attack unless i keybind it to the keyboard, it should be on the mouse or active automatically. Playing like this is just too arcade, so if i do this i play on casual and don´t bother thinking about combat.

 

Now the tactical camera. If i use it, the pathfinding for it is terrible - i have lost count of the number of times one character got stuck and unable to move. In addition to taking long routes when a small jump would be enough to get a shortcut. I want the camera to stay behind my character like the DAO one, but now i must move this invisible man around, which is annoying - controling another character, make sure the invisible guy is on the right spot so i can see what´s going on. It also frustrates me how after each conversation or cutscene, tactical camera is deactivated, so i can´t really play always using it - i have to activate/deactivate it, and there are many areas where it is not usable.

 

In the end i gave up on the tactical camera and now i only play the game on action mode + casual difficulty. Honestly i think the combat of this game was created for multiplayer, it works quite well there, and then just ported into the singleplayer. Compared to DAO, the singleplayer combat is terrible - i played DAO on nightmare and i enjoyed it a lot, using mods that gave potions a 1min CD or just not using consumables at all. That game´s combat was fun and challeging for the sake of it, instead DAI combat for me is annoying and just a grind to see the next story bit.

[Lady Ishtar]

I know, GOTY is never awarded to good RPGs. Or older BioWare games. Or deep, unconventional, non-mainstream games.

 

Like Deus Ex, Demon's Souls and Dark Souls. Or Mass Effect 2 and Knights of the Old Republic. Or Portal 2.

Deus EX = Action

Demon Souls = Action

Mass Effect = Shooter

KOTOR = great game but not even 1% of KOTOR 2 which is not Bioware
Portal 2 = Action

Good RPG = Turn based character sheet oriented gameplay, rest is pure action game, thus only KOTOR means anything in your list

[CronoDragoon]

I would have no problem with your post except that you probably think it means something?

 

It means exactly what it says. They wouldn't have room for your "Worst of the Worst" award because everyone else gave them "Best of This Year" awards. Though I know your personal award is what really mattered to them so ; ;

[Maeshone]

Deus EX = Action

Demon Souls = Action

Mass Effect = Shooter

KOTOR = great game but not even 1% of KOTOR 2 which is not Bioware
Portal 2 = Action

Good RPG = Turn based character sheet oriented gameplay, rest is pure action game, thus only KOTOR means anything in your list

Turn based character sheet oriented gameplay is not an indicator of an RPG. It is an indicator of a turn based, character oriented game. Deus Ex, Mass Effect and Demon's Souls/Dark Souls/Bloodborne are all RPGs. The defining aspect of any RPG is, quite simply, roleplaying, something that you can do to lesser or greater extent in all those three games. Portal was on the list as an example of an unconventional game, not an RPG.

[Jester]

Deus EX = Action

Demon Souls = Action

Mass Effect = Shooter

KOTOR = great game but not even 1% of KOTOR 2 which is not Bioware
Portal 2 = Action

Good RPG = Turn based character sheet oriented gameplay, rest is pure action game, thus only KOTOR means anything in your list

Deus Ex is not an action game. It's a first person roleplaying game. 

Hell, it has character sheet, different skills, shooting your gun or using weapons depends mostly on your skill (targetting reticule's size depends on your skill), it has dialogues, choices, and the way you play has consequences and is referenced by NPCs.

 

Demon/Dark souls has character sheet, attribute progression, your efficiency in combat depends on your equipment and character build, just as much as it depends on your skill.

 

KOTOR 2 is obviously a better game, sadly it arrived unfinished and bugged, meaning it had no chance of winning GOTY in the first place. 

 

Portal 2 is a puzzle game, not an action game. 

 

Turn based combat in a cRPG is a bad idea. It makes for a weak gameplay - hence why Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale and Torment went for semi-turn based gameplay (Neverwinter Nights did the same), and the result is, that the combat in those games is far, far superior to combat in Fallout 1&2, which is fully turn based.

[CronoDragoon]

Turn based combat in a cRPG is a bad idea. It makes for a weak gameplay - hence why Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale and Torment went for semi-turn based gameplay (Neverwinter Nights did the same), and the result is, that the combat in those games is far, far superior to combat in Fallout 1&2, which is fully turn based.

 

What about Divinity: Original Sin?

[Jester]

What about Divinity: Original Sin?

I haven't played it (yet). It's fully turn-based?

I was planning on buying it, but I'll probably get Pillars of Eternity first. 

[CronoDragoon]

I haven't played it (yet). It's fully turn-based?

I was planning on buying it, but I'll probably get Pillars of Eternity first. 

 

Fully turn-based, yeah, and stands out to me as the one CRPG amidst the recent revival praised for its combat system.

[Eelectrica]

My biggest problems with the DAI combat system are thr 8 ability restrictions and being unable to switch weapons in combat. The tac cam I can use, it could be better, but I do find it usefull. Not having even a basic tactics system is annoying as well, even if I could tell my characters to do something when being attacked by melee, etc. For all the faults DA2 had, its tactics system was outstanding.

 

I actually enjoy turn based combat systems. I thought they did a great job with D:OS mixing the environmental aspects in was excellent. Actually looking forward to playing it again when they release the enhanced edition, same deal with Wasteland 2. Also looking forward to the upcoming X-Com 2 and Shadowrun: Hong Kong when it unlocks.

[Morroian]

Deus Ex is not an action game. It's a first person roleplaying game. 

Hell, it has character sheet, different skills, shooting your gun or using weapons depends mostly on your skill (targetting reticule's size depends on your skill), it has dialogues, choices, and the way you play has consequences and is referenced by NPCs.

 

The fact that it has some role playing options doesn't make it an rpg, it just makes it a FPS with some role playing elements. Dishonored was similar, again not a role playing game.

[CronoDragoon]

The fact that it has some role playing options doesn't make it an rpg, it just makes it a FPS with some role playing elements. Dishonored was similar, again not a role playing game.

 

"As the player accomplishes objectives, the player character is rewarded with "skill points". Skill points are used to enhance a character's abilities in eleven different areas, and were designed to provide players with a way to customize their characters;^[9] a player might create a combat-focused character by increasing proficiency with pistols or rifles, while a more furtive character can be created by focusing on lock picking and computer hacking abilities. There are four different levels of proficiency in each skill, with the skill point cost increasing for each successive level.^[11][12]

 

Weapons may be customized through "weapon modifications", which can be found or purchased throughout the game. The player might add scopes, silencers, or laser sights; increase the weapon's range, accuracy, or magazine size; or decrease its recoil and reload time. Not all modifications are available to all weapons; for example, a rocket launcher cannot be silenced, and recoil cannot be reduced on a flamethrower.

Players are further encouraged to customize their characters through nano-augmentations—cybernetic devices that grant characters superhuman powers. While the game contains eighteen different nano-augmentations, the player can install a maximum of nine, as each must be used on a certain part of the body: one in the arms, legs, eyes, and head; two underneath the skin; and three in the torso.^[13] This forces the player to choose carefully between the benefits offered by each augmentation. For example, the arm augmentation requires the player to decide between boosting their character's skill in hand-to-hand combat or his ability to lift heavy objects.

 

Interaction with non-player characters (NPCs) was a large design focus.^[9] When the player interacts with a non-player character, the game will enter a cutscene-like conversation mode where the player advances the conversation by selecting from a list of dialogue options. The player's choices often have a substantial effect on both gameplay and plot, as non-player characters will react in different ways depending on the selected answer (e.g. rudeness makes them less likely to provide assistance)."

 

It's a role-playing game.

[Eelectrica]

I've always considered Deus Ex an RPG. There's typically several solutions to puzzles, we can choose how we play our character, dialogue choices too as I recall.

Sure it's a fixed character, and could have been even better had we been allowed to stick with Unatco. Of course though at some point the game has to ship so having all those cool branching plotlines had to be sacrificed.

[First Enchanter]

I didn't really have a problem with it, but I hope it's improved for DA4.

 

I'd like a greater variety of abilities.

 

I think the speed is great when compared to the other games (not too fast but not too slow either). What I did not like was the homogeneity of the enemies and encounters...whether you're fighting Venatori or Avvar or elves the enemies are all the same. I'd love for them to have different tactics and abilities that meaningfully distinguish them from each other and spice the game up a bit. Some of the non-human creatures are better at this, but even then, not as good as they could be. Like...take Red Templars.

 

I understand needing footsoldiers and archers...that makes sense. But couldn't the archers have a special ability that...I dunno...infects a character with red lyrium that grows from their skin, dealing damage over time and slowing them? That could distinguish them from, say, elven archers who have stealth capabilities and a higher crit chance or something. And you could have a red lyrium adept or something that's almost a caster that teleports and appears from the ground in an eruption of red lyrium and sprays you with shards of lyrium.

 

And that would feel very different from an encounter with an Arcane Horror whose specialty is debuffing and slowing/cursing the party into submission while wraiths pick you off. This is different than a Spellbinder that specializes in buffing the party and putting barriers and elemental effects on allies and teleports to evade damage. As opposed to a Rock Wraith Sentinel who has extremely high health and projects an aura that raises damage resistance of allies, making them a prime target (and a tough one to take down). What if Fear demons actually inflicted panic on us? And greater ones could do it more often. What if Venatori soldiers had a special ability where they sacrifice themselves, shout "For the Elder One!" and explode with a walking bomb effect that the Tevinter mages enchant them with as part of their indoctrination, making ranged take-downs or disabling effects useful for those encounters. What if we faced Carta Engineers that set Grease Traps that create pools of slowing grease? We know seeing a Hurlock Alpha means a slow but hard-hitting enemy with lots of health...but what if we saw a Chevalier Commander and knew he was going to give his allies guard and increase their damage?

 

As far as I can remember, we don't get any of that. Mostly, it's just the same enemies across all factions.

[Darkly Tranquil]

Turn based combat in a cRPG is a bad idea. It makes for a weak gameplay - hence why Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale and Torment went for semi-turn based gameplay (Neverwinter Nights did the same), and the result is, that the combat in those games is far, far superior to combat in Fallout 1&2, which is fully turn based.

I love turn based combat. Shadowrun Dragonfall - Director's Cut was my fav game last year. I still remember playing the original X-Com way back when and falling in love with that style of gameplay. It might not be for everyone, but some of us still appreciate it. Divinity: Original Sin, Wasteland 2, and The Banner Saga were also great games. 2014 was an amazing year for turn based CRPGs.

[Morroian]

"As the player accomplishes objectives, the player character is rewarded with "skill points". Skill points are used to enhance a character's abilities in eleven different areas, and were designed to provide players with a way to customize their characters;^[9] a player might create a combat-focused character by increasing proficiency with pistols or rifles, while a more furtive character can be created by focusing on lock picking and computer hacking abilities. There are four different levels of proficiency in each skill, with the skill point cost increasing for each successive level.^[11][12]

 

I've played the game I know the mechanics. Like I said having some role playing options does not make it a role playing game.