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Strategy for surviving first siege of Redcliffe?


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#1
Deadly dwarf

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My team of Alistair, Leliana, Morrigan, and PC warrior has just survived the attack on Redcliffe by the undead, but it was costly.  I did all the proper preparations:  got the blacksmith working, recruited Dywinne, Lloyd, and Berwick, etc.  All of these fellows along with Ser Perth and Murdock died during the attack.  (I got oil from the general store only to have Ser Perth and his men along with Dwyinne rush into the fire to fight the undead. :blink:

 

Did I do this episode too early?  After Ostagar, I went to Lothering, Soldiers' Peek, and did the mission to get Shale.  Is this result inevitable when you only have one mage?  Thoughts?



#2
Mike3207

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Never use the oil.

 

I like to wait until Wynne has all the Spirit Healer abilities before I do this mission. Last time around I added fire runes and undead damage runes, cast Glyph of Warding on the allies, and used my staff with maxed out fire damage. I didn't lose a single person, my first as a mage.



#3
Deadly dwarf

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When you say you "didn't lose a single person," are you talking just about your party or the whole village population of Redcliffe?  My party survived the battle, but the village population was decimated!  Especially since my PC is a warrior, I think you may be right about going to the tower first to get Wynne and use her healing powers.



#4
Mike3207

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When you say you "didn't lose a single person," are you talking just about your party or the whole village population of Redcliffe?  My party survived the battle, but the village population was decimated!  Especially since my PC is a warrior, I think you may be right about going to the tower first to get Wynne and use her healing powers.

Both actually-but your party should not have a lot to worry about. I can't remember the last time I had a party member get knocked out in that fight. For this one I went with my PC mage, Zevran as Assassin/Bard, Dog as DPS, and Wynne as Healer. For sustained I think i gave Wynne Cleansing Aura and Zevran Momentum.

 

Regarding the allies, if you use the fire the allies will run into it and burn themselves up. You're better off using support abilities to help the allies with their survivability. Most of them are decent fighters, the weak link really is Lloyd if you use him in the fight. I've had him survive a couple of times, but I'd say 70% of the time he gets killed if you bring him into the fight.



#5
Deadly dwarf

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I can't believe NPC AI is so stupid that the fearful villagers who need your help will run into a burning fire!  Oh well...   Everything is easier when your team has two mages in it!



#6
cJohnOne

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I use to think It was important to give Morrigan the heal spell.   If you do redcliffe earlier it is more challenging which is more fun in a way.


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#7
alexanderfc

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I used to do this right after Lothering, I tend to wait until I've completed all other main quests incl. Urn of Sacred Ashes. (Mainly because I find it quite dull!)

 

If you're struggling with the first set of undead, you need to wait. If you want to save all villagers you will have a harder time in front of the chantry. What difficulty setting are you on?

 

Cleansing aura isn't imperative, but it does help an awful lot if the villagers are being killed

 

Regarding the allies, if you use the fire the allies will run into it and burn themselves up.

 

Never had my allies run that far, I always tend to run to the top of the hill in the green mist and attack before they have chance.

 

 

Most of them are decent fighters, the weak link really is Lloyd if you use him in the fight. I've had him survive a couple of times, but I'd say 70% of the time he gets killed if you bring him into the fight.

 

You need to keep an eye on Lloyd, for someone who didn't want to fight to begin with, he's pretty gutsy. I've had him run off to the right, to one of the spawning points.



#8
ThePhoenixKing

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A couple things.

 

First off, levelling up a bit before doing this mission is a good idea. During one playthrough of the game, I made sure to complete a lot of the Denerim sidequests as well as Honnleath, so I was a bit tougher for this fight than if I'd just gone straight to Redcliffe from Lothering.

 

Secondly, having either Wynne or Shale in your party would be very handy. The Cleansing Aura spell makes this mission a lot easier (then again, if you're already at level 14 when you do it, you're probably overlevelled to begin with). Shale in her Stoneheart configuration is very useful, as she can employ both Taunt and Bellow to pull aggro, and in the latter case stun the enemies.

 

Third, make sure to stock up on healing items and lyrium potions as much as you practically can. Remember, it's not about inflicting massive amount of damage quickly, it's an endurance run. Also, pause the game on occasion to see who needs a healing spell the most, so yu can apply it for maximum effect. Hope this all helps!



#9
theskymoves

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You need to keep an eye on Lloyd, for someone who didn't want to fight to begin with, he's pretty gutsy. I've had him run off to the right, to one of the spawning points.

 

Casting Force Field on Lloyd to remove him from the mix (and keep him from dying) is my usual way of dealing with him, else babysitting him requires far too much attention.


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#10
Vlada47

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Cone of Cold does wonders here. Glyph of Repulsion with good placement can also help a great deal... another option could be paralysis explosion combo from glyphs - you can practically stop the battle (by paralyzing everything) for a nice amount of time with it... just be careful to not catch any of your team members into the effect.



#11
SergeTroy

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The Dragon Age Wiki really covers everything that I could imagine.

 

 


Strategy: Keeping Everyone Alive

Despite the daunting nature of the task, keeping everyone alive through the night has its benefits. If handled well, this can be an easy battle, regardless of difficulty. The following strategy was written from the perspective of a Level 10 party on Nightmare difficulty:

General

The only way to heal the NPCs on consoles is with health-regenerating aura effects, namely from Cleansing Aura (which requires the user being Level 14 to access). Heal and Group Heal cannot be used to target NPC allies, however they can still recover health if the enemy is eliminated quickly enough to trigger a "drop out of combat," which leads to a small reprieve to recover health and even save the game while waiting for the next force to advance.

On PC, however, it is possible to cast single-target spells on the militia, so keeping them alive is far easier through the use of Heal and Regeneration, along with Cleansing Aura and any spell that can augment their chances, such as Heroic Offense and Force Field. Group Heal still only applies to the active party, however, so it cannot be used to heal NPC's. In a pinch, Lifeward can make the difference between an NPC living or dying should the rest of your healing spells be recharging.

Additionally, the player can use Glyph of Paralysis and Glyph of Repulsion to keep the undead away from the militia as necessary, either by blocking off choke points like the fire and the gaps in the barricades, or by casting them directly on an NPC with low health or surrounded by attacking corpses. Paralysis Explosion, as with any other case, is a double-edged sword, as it will paralyze friend and foe alike.

Be aware that Revival does not work on NPC's. Once they're gone, they're gone for good.

Preparation

Keeping everyone alive is entirely possible with Level 9-10 Alistair, Morrigan, and Wynne, even on Nightmare difficulty. In this battle, a good offense is the best defense. You'll face down close to 100 corpses total, and killing them as swiftly as possible will create breaks you can use to drop out of combat entirely, thus healing the militia as well.

  • Completing Broken Circle not only gets you Wynne and her healing abilities (which suffice for the Warden's party, not to mention she will also have Stonefist for the occasional knockdown/Shatter), but also Templar Armor, which is ideal for Alistair at early stages of the game. Beyond this, she can't do much without burning up her mana, and it is recommended you give her lyrium potions manually. Have her use Rejuvenate on Alistair when his stamina gets below 25%, so he can use Taunt regularly.
  • On that note, Alistair can learn several useful abilities between the Korcari Wilds and this point, namely Taunt, Shield Bash, Shield Pummel, and Overpower. Taunt is essential for managing threat. The activated talents provide knockdown, stun, and a critical hit respectively. Overpower is not entirely necessary, if you've invested in Shield Defense (which should be disabled since offense is much more important in this fight).
  • Morrigan comes with Winter's Grasp, Horror, Frost Weapons, and, if she joins at Level 7, a single level up away from Cone of Cold. When aimed properly this can give the militia a chance to kill the corpse and regroup, not to mention talents with critical hits will trigger Shattering against normal-ranked corpses. Force Field becomes another useful option, though it will make a corpse immune to damage it will prevent them from fighting, allowing you to cleanup weaker numbers and regroup the militia. Vulnerability Hex, when used on the corpses with the highest health (i.e. Elites), will make them easier to destroy.
  • Flaming Weapons will provide about an extra +9 damage per hit against enemies, +12 on Vulnerability Hex's victim (depending on Morrigan's spellpower), far outstripping Cold Iron runes. Dual-Wielders have twice the advantage by striking twice within the same time-frame as a two-hander or archer, and still faster than W&S. Even if you have to buy a Tome of Arcane Technique or two, this ability is indispensable when paired with Threaten. (If the Warden is a dual-wielder with Momentum, activate it once Lloyd is free of danger to quickly clean up and possibly force a drop out of combat. It's not necessary, but it can save some hair-pulling if the option is there.)
  • Sten with a two-hander setup described below and a decent set of armor will also suffice, although the other three require much less dressing up for the battle.
  • Leliana is not as useful in this battle, since she is likely undeveloped as a rogue early on, and there are plenty of archers in the militia itself. Although Song of Valor will help with stamina regeneration, this is of no use to the militia. With Captivating Song learned (requires Level 12 and all four Bard talents learned), she can easily stun most of the corpses and keep them locked down. She will not be able to fight herself, but at Level 12 an active team of three fighters should be equivalent to four at Level 9-10.
  • Shale's utility is debatable. With Small Fire Crystals set in the arms, the golem can easily deal the most damage, but Stone Aura might be more useful. On at least, there is nothing to suggest it actually heals the militia (health bars remain at present value), although they do appear far more resilient within the aura than without.

Sustainables, with the exception of Rapid Shot, Momentum, and upgraded Powerful Swings, should be avoided, as they eat up too much stamina, and even these should be used only after the talents are used. Learn the talents through Arrow of Slaying for archers, Punisher for dual-wielders, Two-Handed Sweep or Critical Strike for two-handers (preferably both but not half-and-half), and Overpower for weapon-and-shield users, as they can cause stun, knockdown, and critical hits (and therefore Shattering when combined with Cone of Cold). At least one should learn Taunt and apply that at the top of the Tactics list.

Other tips

The following tips can supplement the defensive strategy, but most of them are only useful to sufficiently-developed parties. They are by no means required but should make the task marginally if not immensely easier.

  • Mild Lure traps can be useful for getting attackers away from where they aren't wanted (drawing knights into fire, mobbing Lloyd when he charges out into the open, etc.); a reasonable supplemental effort if there aren't enough characters with Taunt. However, setting them will require a Skill point invested in Trap-Making, two to build them from scratch as well as the Mild Lure Plans purchased.
  • Soulrot Coating can provide additional spirit damage to melee weapons, but will require skill investment in Poison-Making just to apply, Expert Poison-Making to craft.
  • Try to have one mage in the group with Heal, preferably two. Pause combat every so often to monitor everyone's health levels or keep Tab held down frequently). Use poultices to keep the Warden and companions up so the spell can be saved for NPCs. Don't forget the Tactics slot "Self: Health < X% = Use: X Poultice" if avoiding micromanagement.
    • Healing NPCs is not possible on PS3 or Xbox 360 with Heal or Group Heal, you may only target your party members. Refer to the first note about keeping everyone's health up.
  • Cleansing Aura affects all of the militia, on all platforms. This offers arguably the best chance of preventing fatalities, even at Nightmare difficulty. However, if the Warden is not a Spirit Healer, this will require Wynne reaching the level requirement of 14 (and therefore the Warden reaching 15, very likely), which will take a considerable portion of the game. If one desires to complete Redcliffe early, it is wholly unnecessary in the battle.
  • Lowering the Difficulty setting before or during the battle will help trivialize the issues with the militia, but players looking for the maximum challenge may take issue with this tactic, however brief it would be.
  • To better see whether or not any soldiers have fallen, look at the remains; if a corpse has blood, then it is a fallen soldier (from the militia), indicating you to reload without having to finish the battle. If the maximum amount of preparation is done, there will be eight NPC's up at the windmill: Ser Perth and three Knights, Berwick and Dwyn with two Thugs. At the Chantry, there will be eleven NPCs: Tomas, Murdock, five Militia, three Militiamen, and Lloyd if pressed into service. Look for blue circles to better count them off.
  • Reloading the auto-save that generates halfway down to the Chantry will reset the militia, refilling their health and arrangement (very useful for buying time to save Lloyd, although it won't stop him from charging off to take on two at once). However, this seems to be tied to the transition of the first phase to the second, and reloads as such. You may get a setup with the corpses just pressing their attack, or with both Elite-ranks entrenched and just finished hacking at Lloyd, with no way to rescue him.
  • "Cold-loading" the auto save (loading it from the main menu) seems to be totally disadvantageous, leading to consistently placing the entire first wave of corpses, including the Elites, within the militia's perimeter. Continuing beyond this seems to force the replacements to spawn one at a time relentlessly. If you must leave the game, it is recommended to reload a save from before the quest even begins (preferably made before talking to Murdock to begin the defense), to ensure their safety.

Even with all of this, a degree of luck is required. The Knights' AI may refuse to cooperate and send them into the fire anyway. At the Chantry, corpses may shrug off the Taunts or resist a crowd-control spell, or they may continue to spawn with no break in combat, forcing you to fight all 40 some odd corpses while keeping the militia's constantly dwindling health from reaching zero. Also, your companions may get wedged in a mob of 5-6 militia and corpses and be unable to get positioned for an attack.

First phase

Assuming the oil is used, the most important thing to do is set Behavior to either Default, Defensive, Ranged, or Cautious, which will prevent them from chasing enemies into a harmful area of effect (AoE), like the fire trap. As for the other allies, the best thing to do is to kill the corpses as quickly as possible, to prevent them incensing the knights into taking up the front line.

If the oil barrels are used to set the hill on fire:

  • Order the party to hold position, and move Alistair to the very edge of the fire trap. He won't walk into it if his Behavior is set properly, and he should draw the most threat. Set spellcasters back by the rear guard, and bring your other warrior (hopefully the Warden) to supplement Alistair. Let the fire do most of the work, and the corpses will not aggro your allies into chasing them too far south (towards the village exit/fire trap). Manually command Alistair to engage enemies once they are through the trap, or he will just stand there and let the flaming undead go by. When softened, they shouldn't be a match for the knights, but it's best not to take chances.
  • Make good use of ranged stun and knockdown abilities (Horror, Winter's Grasp, Stonefist) while the corpses are in the flames to keep them in there long enough to burn to death. If you wish, move Morrigan to the edge of the trap and use Cone of Cold.
  • Earthquake, set on and behind the barricade as each wave of undead approaches. This works even better if the Warden's entire party keeps ranged attack options, and especially well if the oil barrels are used.

If not, it's simply a matter of grinding the dozens of corpses as they come down the hill. Without health-regenerating auras, the combat veterans assembled on the hill may very well be worn down and die, so maintain the Warden's party's position as the first line of defense. Be warned that the longer you spend up here may deprive you of time better spent at the Chantry. Try to sneak in a save before the Militia summons you below.

Second phase

The real difficulty of the second phase is in getting down here fast enough, and securing Lloyd if he was pressed into the defense. He has no armor, a single dagger, and a tendency to run off into the night, away from the safety of the militia. Force Field and Winter's Grasp may be useful in stopping any corpses engaging him, and Taunt may very well get their attention away from him. (On PC, it may be a better idea to use Force Field on him, this will cocoon him and keep him from being reckless, but this option is not available on console). If he manages to aggro three of them, it's probably better to reload and pray for two, or one. Beyond this, the best way to complete the phase is to defend the opening in the barricades that the militia have clustered around. Take manual control of Morrigan and use her built-in crowd controllers (Winter's Grasp and Horror), and use Drain Life and Lightning to deal damage.

  • Use Cone of Cold or Flame Blast manually, and keep militia and party members out of the AoE. This is by no means easy when the corpses get embedded, so Morrigan should use the cone abilities on incoming waves, as opposed to entrenched waves.
  • The biggest problem is the two Elite-rank corpses. If they are entrenched together, it is probably better to reload and hope for a better setup. They can deal the most damage and resist your crowd control measures, so Morrigan should apply Force Field on one and Vulnerability Hex on the other. Getting their attention away from the militia is the next countermeasure, before they can do any more damage than they've already done. Finally, spam your warriors' abilities against the hexed Elite and kill it before it can do any more damage.
  • Like with the first phase, it is very important to have the Behavior of companions set to Default, Defensive, or Cautious, or manage their targets closely. Otherwise your forces may scatter, preventing an organized elimination of the walking dead. The militia are at their strongest when the 8-9 of them can gang up on corpses wandering into their kill-zone, and each of the Warden's party members can handle a corpse or two on their own.
  • Direct crowd-control measures at corpses fighting a militia member 2 (or 3)-on-1, and focus the warrior's talents on those closest to them, working their way across the field.

Lastly, keep trying. Keep trying until you create enough of a gap in the spawns that you get a drop out of combat. It's easier when all four companions are within the perimeter, and when the militia starts sheathing weapons, count heads, and save the instant you can do so yourself. From here, take the corpses as they come, and all 9 will see the sunrise.



#12
MerAnne

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Wow, this is a lot of work, but my method has always worked so I think I'll stick with it....

 

When I'm playing rather than testing, I play on Nightmare and Redcliffe is typically right after Lothering. I don't get Lloyd to fight - all of the local militia laughing at the concept can't be wrong.  And evidently they are right.

 

1.  Make sure everyone has a ranged attack for phase 1 (with Ser Perth) and I use the oil.

2.  'group' control and keep everyone back from the flames.

3.  The undead won't start down the hill until you get 'close' to the flames so it is sometimes necessary to send the GW or a companion forward to get them started.  And then go back to the rest of the group.

 

If done correctly (and it might take some practice), the undead come down the hill 2 or 3 at a time instead of en mass.  The ranged attacks can typically have the undead nearly dead by the time they clear the flames.  Ser Perth et al will go forward to kill any that make it that far, but it doesn't take much to kill them off.  Ser Perth et al have time to return to their starting locations so they don't end up in the flames.

 

Keep all party members at full health and Leliana's bard talents are useful even if they don't appear to do much.

 

 

Phase 2:

This is where I might lose one or two of the militia when playing on Nightmare.  Murdock seems especially suicidal when it comes to charging into fights.  I don't have a real strategy here other than I do sometimes stop the group on the hill for one or two ranged attacks before releasing everyone to the type of fighting they prefer. Leliana usually stays on the hill with her bow while my GW, Alistair, and whoever else is with my GW charge down the hill for melee attacks.

 

Yes, I micromanage, but since none of the Companions are real people, they don't get upset by that!  IF you keep all of the militia alive there is a nice helmet as a  reward, but other than that, I don't know of a benefit.  On Nightmare, right after Lothering, I get the helmet approximately 50% of the time.  Depending on the personality of the GW that I'm playing, I sometimes play the battle multiple times to get the best possible outcome (i.e. everyone lives).

 

Although modded, I don't play with any 'god items'.  One mod does add 2 future Companions to the 2nd phase battle, but they are using vanilla equipment and aren't overpowered.


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#13
themikefest

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The one time I lost a few of the villagers was as a mage and I was using walking bomb. I reloaded the save before the fight and didn't use walking bomb with all surviving. Go figure

 

When playing as a rogue or warrior everyone survived without any losses

 

Most of the time when I go to Redcliffe I have Alistair, Leliana and dog with me.



#14
SherryGold

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I go there when I can unlock the captivating song for Leliana. This time my DW warrior took Zevran, Alistair (to gain extra approval points) and Leliana, went back to camp just before the battle to swap Alistair for Morrigan, back to the village. The first pause is pretty much easy in terms of keeping the villagers alive. With the second pause, I took over Leliana, made her dash into the middle of battle, turned on the captivating song. Then I took over Morrigan, placed her in the middle of the battle, used mind blast as often as she can and throw about offensive spells now and then, but her focus was constantly checking the militia's health and throw heal for any militiaman who lost even a bit of health. The undead are so determined to get to the villagers that they tend to ignore you even when you attack them unless you are quite away from the villagers - none of us needed healing spell or health potion. I think the key is making the fight easier for the villagers and keeping eye on their health. I let my Warrior and Zev do what they do best - causing a lot of damage.



#15
AshenSugar

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Here's how I do it (PC).

 

Alistair - Tank

Wynn - Healer

Stenn - DPS

Warden - DPS

 

Approximate level: Level 10/11

 

Order of play - Warden's Keep, Return to Ostagar, Stone Prisoner, Broken Circle, Arl of Redcliff

 

- Ignore the burning oil upgrade, as it's a liability. Get all other upgrades, and recruitable personnel, including Dwynn, Lloyd and Berwick.

 

- Complete the first stage at the gate, which is easy enough - those Knights and Dwynn can take care of themselves

 

- As soon as the messenger arrives, group select all four party members, with Wynn under your direct control.

 

- Race the lot of them to the village via clicking upon the ground to get them to all move at once, as fast as possible.

 

- Continue to control Wynn, and pause the game as soon as the combat area is reached.

 

- Seek out and and identify Lloyd and Murdoch (the two guys I like to keep alive).

 

Keep a particular eye on Lloyd as he's rather squishy and dumb, and also be prepared to throw a few heals on Murdoch too. Thomas is also nice to save.

 

- Pause the game regularly, surveying the battlefield, and getting other characters into place. I like to have my melee in the dead-centre, rounding up as many undead as possible, and keep Wynn well back. If Lloyd is in danger of imminent death, put Forcefield on him until Wynn's healing cooldowns are ready, I'm generally saving all her energy for healing, and not using her offensively at all. Group Heal takes care of party members, Heal takes care of non-controllable NPCs. Forcefield is an absolute lifesaver when anybody is one step away from death. Of course party members can also use poultices.

 

- Continue to monitor the battle, keeping the camera high so as to see the whole field, continue to heal as and when required, pausing the game regularly.

 

Eventually, the battle will be over, and as long as you are careful and use Wynn like this in a pure healing role, everything will be fine.



#16
springacres

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I've always used the oil and have never had a big problem with allies running into the fire.  That said, this fight requires a lot of micromanaging even on Casual/Easy, and I lost Murdock on my latest run.

 

Cone of Cold does wonders here. Glyph of Repulsion with good placement can also help a great deal... another option could be paralysis explosion combo from glyphs - you can practically stop the battle (by paralyzing everything) for a nice amount of time with it... just be careful to not catch any of your team members into the effect.

A note about PE, at least on casual/easy - it wears off your party members a couple of seconds at least before releasing your enemies, so you may have time to get in some AOE or damage-over-time attacks.

 

(And yes, I tend to go for the story rather than the combat challenge.)



#17
Neverwinter_Knight77

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I hate this battle. The skeletons charge straight for Murdock, completely ignoring myself and my companions. You can use taunt, threaten, or whatever you want, but those damn things have it out for the mayor!

I put it on easy mode, use Morrigan's Heal spell on Murdock if I have to, and be extremely aggressive in this fight. If Dog has the AoE howl stun, that helps too.

#18
Qis

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The villagers will aggro the Undead, it is scripted that way, so no matter how you want to aggro them they will always charge the villagers.

 

The easiest way is doing this quest in higher level, those archers will have Shattering Shot knock down attacks, so the Undead get knocked down before reaching them, they also have Scatter Shot to stun the Undead. And the villagers have better armor.