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[Aren]

There are times in which personal freedom is surpassed by authority.

This topic will revolve around the Warden and Her/his authority towards the companions,as well as their  freedom.

DAO possess a vast arrangement of patterns when it comes to the companions behaviour,as each companion

(aside from Alistair until a certain point for plot reason) may leave you under specific circumstances,that may or not may have something to do with their approval.

I will discuss in this topic my point of view about the authority of the Warden,and the right to the companions to leave the cause.

I use to classify the Warden's authority from before and after the Landsmeet.

I genuinely believe that during the events that predate the landsmeet,every companion has the right to leave,or to attack the Warden under severe circumstances,without necessarily "morph" their actions as betrayal.

The warden is the leader of the group,if someone leave or is against her/him  somehow,it doesn't really matter as they are volunteer and the Warden doesn't have supreme authority over them.

Things become more complicated in terms of authority/freedom after the landsmeet,in which the Warden regardless of Origin is nominated respectively from the elected Queen or the elected King (or both) supreme General of  Ferelden.

From that moment (at least for my opinion) soldiers,volunteers, ordinary men and women that are into the Fereldan territory are not allowed to disobey to the Warden's orders,especially in time of war.

The warden was delegated from the crown the position of general.

(even the Cousland wardens are not yet part of the crown until the marriage,they are generals)

After the landsmeet every companions that wish to leave without the general's consent is a traitor of the nation.

Most companions have already resolved their critical mandate

 at that point of the adventure,Caridin and the Urn of sacred ashes (mainly,Leliana,Shale,Wynne,Sten,Oghren) this means that they can leave only for lower approval or if the general send them away willingly.

(in this case there isn't a conflict with the authority)

Some companions,mainly Zevran,Alistair and Morrigan have not yet resolved their critical mandate.

In AListair's case,if Anora is crowned

(alone or with a planned marriage with The Warden) and Loghain his spared,AListair decide to leave,even if the Warden as a General command him to remain, Alistair refuse to respect the authority for his own reason (legitimately yes,but still he disobey),this is betrayal of the nation.

Zevran depending on approval (i'm uncertain if his personal quest can happen after the landsmeet),may decide to ally himself with Talisen to attack the General Warden,this is high betrayal of the nation.

Morrigan has two critical events:

the first one during her mother's quest in which she may decide to leave the party if the Warden decide to not kill Flemeth and return to Morrigan and reveal the truth,this can't morph into a betrayal unless the player waited to complete the quest since after the landsmeet (which imho doesn't make any sense from the timeline perspective,but then again DAO is a mess with the timeline especially for Jowan's story arc).

During the second critical  event of Redclieffe the Warden is a mandatory general.

If her deal is refused and the Warden do not pick the first dialogue option in which basically s/he allowed her to leave,but pick the other option in which s/he say that her abilities are important  to fight the Archdemon,Morrigan in Ferelden's territory disobey to the highest authority,which is morphed in betrayal of the nation.

This happen IRL too,as a personal citizen of my country im'm not allowed to disobey to the summoning of my president or the highest member of the nation in which i live.

SO the point was like i said: there are times in which personal freedom is surpassed by authority,i believe that the Warden after the landsmeet possess such authority.

 

[Illegitimus]

Uh-hunh.  I don't know what country you're in, but in mine the government has to actually conscript you to put you in the military against your will and you actually have to be one of their citizens for them to do that.  Most of the Companions in the game are not Grey Wardens, not part of the Ferelden military and your character for whatever reason is not inclined to conscript them.  Morrigan in particular was never anything other than a fugitive from the law (and barbarian) who was useful to you for a time.  Unlike Sten, Zevran and Wynne, she swore no oaths of service and made no promises or bargains.  She isn't even really a Ferelden subject, seeing as how she lived in the Korcari Wilds with Flemeth and the Chasind, none of whom were actually under the control of the Ferelden crown.  Every moment she drew a free breath she was committing a crime in Ferelden.  Expecting her to automatically obey your orders and become a soldier in your army is like a 19th century American expecting every random Indian to join up and fight in the Civil War "because it's their duty as a citizen".  No, no it isn't because they aren't.  

[Aren]

Uh-hunh.  I don't know what country you're in, but in mine the government has to actually conscript you to put you in the military against your will and you actually have to be one of their citizens for them to do that.  Most of the Companions in the game are not Grey Wardens, not part of the Ferelden military and your character for whatever reason is not inclined to conscript them.  Morrigan in particular was never anything other than a fugitive from the law (and barbarian) who was useful to you for a time.  Unlike Sten, Zevran and Wynne, she swore no oaths of service and made no promises or bargains.  She isn't even really a Ferelden subject, seeing as how she lived in the Korcari Wilds with Flemeth and the Chasind, none of whom were actually under the control of the Ferelden crown.  Every moment she drew a free breath she was committing a crime in Ferelden.  Expecting her to automatically obey your orders and become a soldier in your army is like a 19th century American expecting every random Indian to join up and fight in the Civil War "because it's their duty as a citizen".  No, no it isn't because they aren't.

It doesn't matter,

if you're in a nation and you disobey to the authority

(especially the very highest authority) you commit treason on that nation, you commit a crime against that nation,this work with everyone Morrigan included,until she is in Ferelden territory she is bound to obey like everyone else to the highest authority,if she doesn't wish to commit a crime.

It doesn't matter if someone do not consider themselves as citizen,in this specific case they have even less rights in the country not more.

As i said disobey during a war to the highest general is treason,high treason, citizen or not.

This is why the title of General have immense power.

You're not the champion of a city,you're not the inquisitor of a religious organization,

you're an high general of a nation in charge in time of war ,no one is allowed to disobey to your orders due to your authority especially non citizens,doing this is high treason.

punishable by death.

This is why Anora (as bad as may be) has every reason to demand Alistair execution if he wish to leave which was a GW not a member of the ferelden military.because her authority as the Queen represents the will of the nation and everyone as to respect this will until they are in the territory ,as i said this work with everyone,with every companion after the Landsmeet,they are no more equal to you in Ferelden

(aside from the Queen and the King ).

As for your example of the Indians,it doesn't make sense,since it was an invasion who reduced them in that state,their condition is peculiar,they lost their lands and they possess small amount of reserve in which they are independent,but there are complicated bureaucratic cause still opened.

[Illegitimus]

 

It doesn't matter,

if you're in a nation and you disobey to the authority

(especially the very highest authority) you commit treason on that nation, 

 

Yeeeeah.  No.  Only a citizen of a nation can commit treason to it.  And while disobeying military orders in time of war may be a crime (although it only is if the orders themselves are legal), it isn't treasonous in itself unless you actually help the enemy.And it's not like plenty of Fereldens weren't disobeying the highest authority during the blight...and your character was numbered among them when he failed to surrender to Loghain's soldiers in the tavern.  

[Aren]

Yeeeeah.  No.  Only a citizen of a nation can commit treason to it.  And while disobeying military orders in time of war may be a crime (although it only is if the orders themselves are legal), it isn't treasonous in itself unless you actually help the enemy.And it's not like plenty of Fereldens weren't disobeying the highest authority during the blight...and your character was numbered among them when he failed to surrender to Loghain's soldiers in the tavern.  

1)Yes it remains a crime punishable by death to disobey to the order of a general which in time of war has the absolute power, even for non citizens

2)Morrigan tried to help somehow the old god/Archdemon (thank you for the reminder)   to escape from his final execution, this is high treason for a General and for the entire nation and it can be considered as "tried to help the enemy"

maybe can be considered as high treason for the entire continent!given how destructive the old gods can be when tainted.

(in this case i believe that the Warden if accept is guilty of high treason against his own nation,you can argue that you save the old god not the Archdemon,but it doesn't really matter in the end you helped the enemy,because of which Ferelden soldiers spilled their blood)

3)Aveline,Hawke,Carver may be examples of ferelden citizens who abandoned the army,they were deserters this works with them as well.

4)No the Warden was not a traitor for the nation there was a civil war,the nation was not united and there wasn't any authority.

Anora was locked,Loghain was no more a general but a self proclaimed regent in a civil war against the others nobles,when the Warden become a General the entire nation is united under her/him,the warden is like Loghain prior to Ostagar not after Ostagar.

i never mentioned personal betrayal which is subjective,i mentioned high treason which is completely different,and every companion who abandon the general Warden can be accused of this crime,which is by far worse than personal betrayal.

especially in Morrigan case in which the Old god was involved

[Vlada47]

Oooh, now I feel so bad for being a Grey Warden supreme general of Ferelden (kinda reminds me of the movie Dictator ), who allows these horrible, horrible traitorous characters to have their way. I have to find that "general with absolute power" in my country and ask him, how that works.

[Illegitimus]

 

4)No the Warden was not a traitor for the nation there was a civil war,the nation was not united and there wasn't any authority.

Anora was locked,Loghain was no more a general but a self proclaimed regent in a civil war against the others nobles,when the Warden become a General the entire nation is united under her/him,the warden is like Loghain prior to Ostagar not after Ostagar.

 

Wrong.  The civil war only starts after the Warden leaves Lothering.  At the point the Warden walks into that tavern, the highest ranking general in the Ferelden military has ordered that the Warden and Alistair be arrested.  Defying that order by the standard you have set makes them traitors.  

[Aren]

Point 2 was intreastin and reequire another topic

[Aren]

Wrong.  The civil war only starts after the Warden leaves Lothering.  At the point the Warden walks into that tavern, the highest ranking general in the Ferelden military has ordered that the Warden and Alistair be arrested.  Defying that order by the standard you have set makes them traitors.  

As i said Loghain case is completely different after Ostagar,when the warden is in lothering,Loghain is already in Denerim,talking with Tegan.

Loghain who have abandoned the rest of the army at Ostagar and let Cailan die had no legitimacy to the position of General anymore without Cailan support because Cailan who nominated him as General was dead.

You can argue that Anora gave to him legitimacy as regent and general,but this is completely untrue,since Anora without the support of the Landsmeet was not yet

in control of the throne which can happen only at the very end.

there were no "autorithy" after Ostagar until the Warden become General..neither AListair and neither the Warden were traitors.

[Tidus]

My thoughts is our happy group  is nothing more then  a band of guerrillas trying to gather a army to fight the blight. 

 

Loghain on the other hand sees them as a threat to his  plans of ruling Ferelden .He is also aware he is loosing a lot of men in needless battles of the civil war and may not have enough left to fight the blight.He also knows the 2 surviving wardens is raising a army and in his deranged mind Orlais is the bigger threat then the drakspawn.

 

None of our group is in any Army nor does the warden need to become a General  after all my warden volunteer to kill the archdemon.No general I served under the 6 years I was in the Army would do that.That's what we grunts was for.

 

All of our happy group are volunteers-Morrigan is a forced 'volunteer" placed in our service by her mother.. Alistair and my warden is sworn to fight the blight.

 

When my warden is captured after killing Arl Howel the others including the queen is set free because Loghain wants the warden and could careless about the others.

[Aren]

Oooh, now I feel so bad for being a Grey Warden supreme general of Ferelden (kinda reminds me of the movie Dictator ), who allows these horrible, horrible traitorous characters to have their way. I have to find that "general with absolute power" in my country and ask him, how that works.

warden's smile in modern times

mmmmm

[Huntress]

The warden, Alistar,Avelin, hawke and Carver are survivors of the battle,  dought in any country the survivors will sit and wait to get slaughtered.

the only one able to scape and stay in Ferelden were the warden's. All other's had to flee or be eaten.

And like illigetimus* ( *sorry spelling) the warden and alistair becomes traitors to the new "king" in the tavern because they didn't surrendered to his thug's/ err guards!.  .. Now Loghain that's a traitor!

[Illegitimus]

Yeah, you're still wrong.  No, foreigners can't commit treason.  While the military can arrest or kill foreigners who are somehow in the way, they aren't killing them for treason.  They're killing them because they're in the way.  And even if companions who leave you are committing treason...so what?  You had no trouble committing treason when the general in charge was Loghain.  And unlike Morrigan, you ARE a subject of Ferelden and owe it your loyalty.  And of course the order Morrigan would have been disobeying was never given anyway.  No, an attempt to persuade her to stay is not an announcement that she has been drafted.  

[Fylimar]

If I remember correctly, Zevrans betrayal is before the Landsmeet, but after the Urn of Sacred Ashes, when you are in denerim for the second time and trying to gather proof against Loghain. I had the Talisien encounters always in that time frame, never after the Landsmeet (not that zevran would ever betray me - by that time, all of my group members are usually happy enough, to never leave)

 

But I agree with Illegitimus about Morrigan and I don't think, that apart from Alistair, one of the other companions can be hold responsible, if they would decide to leave after the Landsmeet. They are not part of the Ferelden army and none of them is a GW and most of them are foreigners, so basically, they volunteered to help out. Even if they would leave at the eve of the last big battle, no one could blame them,because apart from Sten and Oghren, none of them had military training, they could simply feel overwhelmed. You even have the dialogue option with Leliana to offer her to leave at the gates.

The only one, you could hold responsible for treachery is Alistair. He is a sworn GW and as such, he will leave his duty, when he decides to run away after the Landsmeet. Normally, I kill Loghain, because his crimes are bad, but the one time, I didn't, I was tempted to execute Alistair, because that felt like betrayal (I didn't because my wardens are mostly nice). But that would mainly be a betrayal to his warden duties, not to the country. He did not swear an oath to defend Ferelden in general, he swore to defend anyone against the Blight - that's a bit different to me. His loyalty is not to the king or queen of Ferelden, but the ruling Warden commander, which would be at the time the player character ( a role forced on the PC by Alistair in Lothering btw)

[Tidus]

You may find this interesting. Guerrillas have no set rules of conduct  and as I mention above our group is a band of Guerrillas whose leaders has a price on their noggins.. They are not part of any Army since that would be against GW policy of being a neutral force that combats roving bands of  darkspawn between blights.

 

I have often wondered what the head warden thinks of Alistair becoming King..Nor do I think it mode well for two Grays getting involved in Dwarvin and Ferelden  politics blight or no blight.. And why wasn't the Grays notified that the Ferelden Grays was wipe out except for two lone survivors?  Alistair being the senior Gray should have taken charge not a green warden and he should have tried to contacted the closest  Grays.

 

A word about Zevran.. By giving him age Antivan Brandy  and a gold bar he stayed loyal to my warden until the group broke up and went their separate ways after the victory whoop  de doo at the castle..

[Vlada47]

Fun fact actually - Zevran was the one, who decided to travel with my Warden after killing the archdemon. 

 

I don't think either you or Alistair is really Warden-Commander in Origins, I think there's really no command structure at the moment. If anyone should take the charge it would be Riordan (after you rescue him from Howe)... until he gets killed of course. 

[Tidus]

Vlada47, I was thinking more on the lines of the head warden at Weisshaupt..He/she can't be very pleased with either Alistair or my warden over their actions and now my warden has gone AWOL with a red headed bard..  

 

Zevran  is a strong rogue and after he joins I use my standard 3 rogues all are  strongly equipped (tanks?) backed by Morrigan on most quest.