12 réponses à ce sujet

[Xanterra]

So, I've been trying to figure out which of Pala's abilities use her offhand weapon to determine whether something like Audacity or the Nameless Blade is worth using.
Obviously, deathblow does for one of the hits, but as far as I can tell, none of the others do.
The one I'd most suspect of using offhand would be spinning blades, as it's from the dual-wield tree, but testing with an inquisition dagger offhand seems to suggest that it isn't factored in.

Anyone with more knowledge willing to weigh in?

[TheThirdRace]

It's actually not how it works...

 

Most abilities use the main hand dagger to calculate their damage. Only a few "select" abilities, like Twin Fangs (1x main hand + 1x off-hand) and Flank Attack (2x offhand), use the off-hand dagger to calculate their damage, which is bad since it makes them weaker. Auto-attack also uses the off-hand damage if it's the off-hand dagger that lands the hit. Auto-attacks are particularly bad when using a low damage daggers.

 

On the other hand, the Mastercrafts on both daggers are active at all time. It doesn't matter if you hit with your main or your off-hand dagger, the Mastercraft applies. You must look at it like if it were a passive. If the dagger had +5 Cunning, would it make sense it applies only when you hit with that dagger? No, it wouldn't and that's how Mastercrafts work. They do apply 100% of the time, just like a passive

 

What makes those low damage daggers so attractive is exactly the fact that most abilities ignore their damage as they use the main hand damage instead. At the same time, the off-hand dagger effects are applied nonetheless. This mechanic makes those low damage daggers very solid for higher difficulties because you usually don't suffer the drawbacks while you benefit a lot from their effects.

[HelenCarnate]

Thanks Third Race.  I have been curious how the damage was calculated. I figured it was probably something similar to that but hadn't seen it confirmed anywhere since I just recently started actually paying attention to the forums here.

[Xanterra]

I'm aware of that - that's why I'm considering those offhands.
If I recall correctly, Deathblow does use offhand for one of the two hits.
The reason I'm asking about spinning blades is that most abilities that use the offhand to calculate (some portion or all of their) damage are from the dual-wield tree, which spinning blades is from. It's quite a few hits, but in my testing, switching to an inquisition offhand didn't result in any abnormally low ones, so I suspect it doesn't.
I'm asking to see if anyone else can confirm, as I don't entirely trust my own testing.

Nice explanation, though - thanks!

[HelenCarnate]

Question on the procs though.  For something like say Audacity which has a low base damage but an awesome proc where target explodes for 75% weapon damage.  Is that damage based of Audacity or whatever you have in your main hand?

[Xanterra]

Question on the procs though.  For something like say Audacity which has a low base damage but an awesome proc where target explodes for 50% weapon damage.  Is that damage based of Audacity or whatever you have in your main hand?

It's actually the damage of the killing blow, which is why it's so good.

[HelenCarnate]

It's actually the damage of the killing blow, which is why it's so good.

Wow, Ill have to play with some new offhands now.

[Yallegro]

It's actually the damage of the killing blow, which is why it's so good.

 

Wait,

 

are you saying that if I kill with Deathblow, Audacity hits for 75% dmg of the second blow of Deathblow, not the dagger, the ability?

[TheThirdRace]

Wait,
 
are you saying that if I kill with Deathblow, Audacity hits for 75% dmg of the second blow of Deathblow, not the dagger, the ability?

Yes... That's why it's amazing....

Thanks Third Race.  I have been curious how the damage was calculated. I figured it was probably something similar to that but hadn't seen it confirmed anywhere since I just recently started actually paying attention to the forums here.

 

I'm aware of that - that's why I'm considering those offhands.
If I recall correctly, Deathblow does use offhand for one of the two hits.
The reason I'm asking about spinning blades is that most abilities that use the offhand to calculate (some portion or all of their) damage are from the dual-wield tree, which spinning blades is from. It's quite a few hits, but in my testing, switching to an inquisition offhand didn't result in any abnormally low ones, so I suspect it doesn't.
I'm asking to see if anyone else can confirm, as I don't entirely trust my own testing.

Nice explanation, though - thanks!

All the needed information can be found here: http://forum.bioware...mbat-mechanics/

If it's not specified, the damage is from main-hand only.

[Drasca]

The best way to test is to use a high base damage dagger in one hand, and inquisition dagger in the other, to observe the massive differences in damage. SP combat mechanics are mostly the same, but not all exactly the same for specific details. Spinning blades was not covered.

 

I suspect the base damage used for damage calculation alternates per actual weapon swing for spinning blades, but sometimes the extra qualities of the off-hand make it worth still carrying a dual blade dagger.

 

The weapon explode damage also unknown on what it uses for damage, it doesn't always use every bonus involved in your final damage as 'bonus damage' from full draw and ambush can have 10k ambushes but 2k aoe explosions. So it is higher than base, but not use the final damage on all abilities.

[Xanterra]

The best way to test is to use a high base damage dagger in one hand, and inquisition dagger in the other, to observe the massive differences in damage. SP combat mechanics are mostly the same, but not all exactly the same for specific details. Spinning blades was not covered.

 

I suspect the base damage used for damage calculation alternates per actual weapon swing for spinning blades, but sometimes the extra qualities of the off-hand make it worth still carrying a dual blade dagger.

 

The weapon explode damage also unknown on what it uses for damage, it doesn't always use every bonus involved in your final damage as 'bonus damage' from full draw and ambush can have 10k ambushes but 2k aoe explosions. So it is higher than base, but not use the final damage on all abilities.

Yeah, that was what I was expecting. (especially thanks to the animation) No drastic swings in my testing, so, assuming nobody else has tested the same thing and gotten different results, I think it's safe to say spinning blades only uses the mainhand to calculate damage.

For reference, mainhand was a savage thorn, offhand inquisition dagger. lowest hits - not crits (on rather armored targets) were around 160. Repeating the testing with a savage thorn offhand as well yields similar (although slightly higher due to the improved stats) results.

[Xanterra]

Further testing with my wannabe hakkon savage thorn offhand and inquisition mainhand (and vice versa) confirms that her only ability (despite some misleading animations) that uses the offhand is deathblow (for one hit).

Enjoy your Isabella-esque tricks, everyone! 

[JohnnyQPublic]

Why don't more people use the dragon dagger in the offhand?  The +21% attack seems like a more consistent overall benefit than situational explode-on-kill, 10% chance to cast immolate / chain lightning, etc.  Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way.  

 

Plus, with Isabela, I often auto-attack vendettaed targets and save my flank attack / flashing steel to replenish elusive if/when it is knocked down a peg.  So I want a strong dagger in the offhand too.