85 réponses à ce sujet

[Aren]

 

 

My Warden which is the highest authority of Ferelden with Anora

 (King,i don't need the ritual to be king) rejected the ritual and basically Morrigan with my authority was exiled from Ferelden(she tried to help the enemy).

She return without the consent of the crown in Florida(ehm ferelden) territory,alias she was accused of disobedience towards the crown with the proof directly from the King of Ferelden.

(Also in the DLC she was in my lands, Amaranthine dragon boones lands)

now it works high treason. 

[Taki17]

I don't think she has comitted any kind of treason. The first and most important task of the Wardens in a Blight is to make the archdemon gone, and it is usually best achieved by killing it. Morrigan's ritual also makes the archdemon gone, but instead of executing it, it is a kind of rehabilitation, as the soul is cleansed from the darkspawn taint. Anyway, the Blight is over and that's what matters from a Warden point of view, and monarchs don't have any authority in Grey Warden business. Besides, I don't think too many people know about the ritual if it is completed, besides Morrigan herself and the father of the child, and all of them have good reasons not to reveal it.

[caradoc2000]

Doesn't the concept of treason imply allegiance (to a country or a sovereign) - defined as "criminal disloyalty"? Morrigan doesn't seem to have any loyalty towards Ferelden. She could have committed a treason against Orlais had she committed an offense towards that country while she was at the Empress' payroll.

[Vlada47]

You really had to span this over 3 topics? It's pretty much what Taki17 and caradoc2000 said - the ritual doesn't go against the whole "Slay the Archdemon and end the Blight" main goal... Archdemon is effectively dead and Bligh ends, period. And as for the treason thing - Morrigan would have to be a subject of some lord in Ferelden to have any obligation towards the country. I have the feeling you just don't like Morrigan and her decisions and just can't get over it... correct me if I'm wrong.

[Tidus]

Heck,my poor warden isn't even a General..      He does volunteer to kill the archdemon.No General would do that-they give the orders and the common grunt follows them.

 

What my warden does see is a means to stay alive after striking the fatal blow. For my male warden that means he can travel the world with his love Leliana and to my female warden that means she can travel the world with her BFF Leliana.

 

Nope no high treason here--well at least in my game.

[Aren]

I don't think she has comitted any kind of treason. The first and most important task of the Wardens in a Blight is to make the archdemon gone, and it is usually best achieved by killing it. Morrigan's ritual also makes the archdemon gone, but instead of executing it, it is a kind of rehabilitation, as the soul is cleansed from the darkspawn taint. Anyway, the Blight is over and that's what matters from a Warden point of view, and monarchs don't have any authority in Grey Warden business. Besides, I don't think too many people know about the ritual if it is completed, besides Morrigan herself and the father of the child, and all of them have good reasons not to reveal it.

The point is that the Warden is not only a Warden in reclieffe is the Fereldan General (Loghain position) or can even be King without the DR.

[Aren]

Heck,my poor warden isn't even a General..      He does volunteer to kill the archdemon.No General would do that-they give the orders and the common grunt follows them.

 

What my warden does see is a means to stay alive after striking the fatal blow. For my male warden that means he can travel the world with his love Leliana and to my female warden that means she can travel the world with her BFF Leliana.

 

Nope no high treason here--well at least in my game.

yes the warden is a volunteer but

regardless of origin Anora or AListair make you a general in the landsmeet king in my case,is the way in which the game is scripted,in fact in DAA you're not just warden commander but General as well.

 

You really had to span this over 3 topics? It's pretty much what Taki17 and caradoc2000 said - the ritual doesn't go against the whole "Slay the Archdemon and end the Blight" main goal... Archdemon is effectively dead and Bligh ends, period. And as for the treason thing - Morrigan would have to be a subject of some lord in Ferelden to have any obligation towards the country. I have the feeling you just don't like Morrigan and her decisions and just can't get over it... correct me if I'm wrong.

3 topic? The other was about the Warden authority not about Morrigan.

[German Soldier]

I would say from a militaristic point of view

(you're a general or even a king,not queen because if i remember you need to accept the ritual to become a queen)

if the ritual is refused you can addicted Morrigan as an enemy of the nation and yes for the UK standard accuse her of high treason,since she tired to offer aid to the enemy that was the Old god,no you do not need to be a citizen of a nation to be accused.

But i will define her at that point as enemy of the nation more than traitor,so yes she can be seen as to be guilt to have interfered with Ferelden  security.

[Gaia300]

MMM i'm unsure,honestly i don't care that much,if she failed i believe that she simply leave Ferelden to go to the west the frostback mountains.

After the blight the title of general do not have such authority anymore,so either you need to be King to formulate the specific accusation,but the premise is there,since she tried to help an old god i believe that from a tribunal of GW she would be considered as extremely dangerous and possible a threat for the continent.

In my epilogue the First Warden was searching her.

So yes from a strictly militaristic point of view,it can be seen as a case of attack to the personal security of the nation(you're a General).

If the warden somehow exiled her after Redcliffe because of the attempt of the Dark ritual (you can headcanon this),but she return in WH in ferelden

territory,for the eluvian,this can bee seen as treason/attack against the crown.

If you use only your GW title this work better i think, she tried to interfere with the order business and their fight against the old gods,and she is guilt to be in possession of GW secretes without being part of the order,this work with Flemeth as well.

[Akiza]

 

 

If you use only your GW title this work better i think, she tried to interfere with the order business and their fight against the old gods,and she is guilt to be in possession of GW secretes without being part of the order,this work with Flemeth as well.

 

In virtute of your grey warden title,you can accuse her to have tried to interfere with the order mission and because of detention of Gw secrets.

This cannot work with Flemeth because you have only Morrigan word about the fact that she taught to her the ritual,you have no proof against Flemeth.

Also she can be accused i think of petty treason,insubordination to a fereldan general in Ferelden lands.

[Aren]

 

In virtute of your grey warden title,you can accuse her to have tried to interfere with the order mission and because of detention of Gw secrets.

This cannot work with Flemeth because you have only Morrigan word about the fact that she taught to her the ritual,you have no proof against Flemeth.

Also she can be accused i think of petty treason,insubordination to a fereldan general in Ferelden lands.

 

Oh didn't think about that the GW authority,it works by far better than the one of the crown in this case where an Archdemon is involved,but as i said  the Warden can be  both,a GW and a king as well .

[Illegitimus]

 

This was actually something popped up into another thread where i was discussing the Warden authority.

If the Dark ritual is rejected by the General/Warden at redcliffe,even if Morrigan fails,her attempt to try to save the "enemy" (Archdemon/Old god/Urthemiel) or whatever from his execution,can be considered by the Warden as high treason?

 

Well I suppose he could consider any questioning of any course of action of his as high treason if he's a deranged tyrant.  

 

In actuality however, the old god is not the enemy.  The enemy is the blight.  Even if the old god was the enemy, proposing a way of achieving "peace" with the enemy is not what I'd call high treason.  

[Tidus]

Aren, My  warden never confirms he/she accepted the rank of General in  DA:O.. All my warden says is get the Army ready.. A noncommittal reply.

 

At this point in the game he's fed up with the whole thing.. Yes that is possible.  All you need to do is not agree to whatever Alistair asks of you after he becomes King.

 

In DA:A he's very reluctant as a Gray commander.  My female warden tells Alistair as much  when Alistair arrives to welcome the wardens. To bad she can't slap him for giving her a kiss on the cheek..After all she just told him she doesn't want to be there.

[Aren]

After thought for a while about Morrigan's situation i have come to the conclusion that she isn't guilty of High treason even if she tried to offer aid to the Old god,she never joined the army,she just joined the group,so i agree that she isn't guilty of this,her situation is not like the one of Orlais where she is working and payed by the authority.

However i believe that she is guilty of betrayal against the group and the Warden if the ritual is refused,from the group perspective,because she fully joined the group at the korcari wilds knowing the group goals,which was kill the Archdemon.

If the ritual is rejected she abandon the Warden before that the mission is complete,it doesn't really matter if she doesn't promises this strictly(she was sent by Flemeth),she joined the group,and leave the mission before that it's complete can be seen as betrayal from the group perspective,this works for every companion,unless of course the Warden is a jerk and treat them poorly and they leave because they don't like the warden or because the Warden sent them away.

In my current play when i refused the ritual to unlock the Warden commander achievement(sorry Alistair i'm sad but i want the perfectionist achievement) she was in high friendship,so she doesn't leave because she don't like the Warden,she leave because i refused to spare the old god,

but as i said at that point the AD was still around.

[blahblahblah]

 

After thought for a while about Morrigan's situation i have come to the conclusion that she isn't guilty of High treason even if she tried to offer aid to the Old god,she never joined the army,she just joined the group,so i agree that she isn't guilty of this,her situation is not like the one of Orlais where she is working and payed by the authority.

However i believe that she is guilty of betrayal against the group and the Warden if the ritual is refused,from the group perspective,because she fully joined the group at the korcari wilds knowing the group goals,which was kill the Archdemon.

If the ritual is rejected she abandon the Warden before that the mission is complete,it doesn't really matter if she doesn't promises this strictly(she was sent by Flemeth),she joined the group,and leave the mission before that it's complete can be seen as betrayal from the group perspective,this works for every companion,unless of course the Warden is a jerk and treat them poorly and they leave because they don't like the warden or because the Warden sent them away.

In my current play when i refused the ritual to unlock the Warden commander achievement(sorry Alistair i'm sad but i want the perfectionist achievement) she was in high friendship,so she doesn't leave because she don't like the Warden,she leave because i refused to spare the old god,

but as i said at that point the AD was still around.

 

She never swore an oath of loyalty on you and anyone. Accusing her of betrayal or treason is a laughable excuse. I know you hate her and this is your way of showing it.

[Illegitimus]

 

This was actually something popped up into another thread where i was discussing the Warden authority.

If the Dark ritual is rejected by the General/Warden at redcliffe,even if Morrigan fails,her attempt to try to save the "enemy" (Archdemon/Old god/Urthemiel) or whatever from his execution,can be considered by the Warden as high treason?

Mind that High treason≠ petty treason which is just  the betrayal of a superior by a subordinate

(yes the Warden is a general at Redclieffe)

High treason is something different,it's more like an action (or potential intent) committed against the nation or the crown 

(which the Warden may rapresent in WH if male Cousland or by delegation of King Alistair and Queen Anora) and the security of the lands,by offering aids or attempted to offer aid to the old god.

 

 

Actually petit treason was the murder of a superior by a subordinate.  As for accusing Morrigan of high treason that stumbles across the minor issue that she didn't actually do anything except suggest something you think is stupid.  I mean you can start killing advisors and subordinates for saying the wrong things but that won't turn out well for a leader.  If you consider Morrigan to somehow be part of the military you could charge her with desertion for leaving if her idea is rejected, but good luck finding her.  At least Alistair actually is a Gray Warden.  

[Aren]

She never swore an oath of loyalty on you and anyone. Accusing her of betrayal or treason is a laughable excuse. I know you hate her and this is your way of showing it.

It doesn't matter of loyalty,she joined fully knowing the goal and the risks,if she leave before the final mission is desertion who can be morphed in betrayal,even other users have agreed on this perspective,not to mention that if the Warden become King of the nation

(is possible without the ritual unlike the Queen)the fact that she tried to help the very enemy (old god) it can be seen from the ruler as an attack to the crown.

[blahblahblah]

It doesn't matter of loyalty,she joined fully knowing the goal,if she leave is desertion who can be morphed in betrayal,even other users have agreed on this perspective.

It's always a matter of loyalty. She is very honest of her goals on you. If she will betray you then why does she needs tell you her own goals?  As some poster said, she's not part of the wardens to begin with and she can leave whatever she wanted with/out your permission. Morrigan is not some dog on a leash.

[Secret Rare]

somehow be part of the military you could charge her with desertion for leaving if her idea is rejected, but good luck finding her.  

I believe that is pretty easy to find Morrigan,  with all the resources of the HoF especially if the Warden is a ruler

Actually she is in the Orlesian court for some years,is pretty difficult to miss her location,is just the Warden who don't care anymore after the attack of Wh that was enough for my Warden.

[caradoc2000]

It doesn't matter of loyalty,she joined fully knowing the goal and the risks,if she leave before the final mission is desertion who can be morphed in betrayal,even other users have agreed on this perspective,not to mention that if the Warden become King of the nation

She didn't join - Captain Janeway forced her to tag along with the Warden.
 
I can just imagine this in a courtroom:
"Objection Your Honor! I didn't join freely, I was scripted to!"

"Objection overruled. When you are with the Voyager, you accept the consequences"

[Secret Rare]

It's always a matter of loyalty. She is very honest of her goals on you. If she will betray you then why does she needs tell you her own goals?  As some poster said, she's not part of the wardens to begin with and she can leave whatever she wanted with/out your permission. Morrigan is not some dog on a leash.

Nope she is part of the group and she joined full knowing the Warden  goal,if she leave before of the death of the AD is desertion,this work with every companion who decided to join the Warden,with each of them,the only one who tell to the Warden that will follow for another purpose is Shale,Shale tell to the Warden since the beggining that she is there only to recover her memories .

It's called betrayal from the group perspective.

She need to tell to the Warden her goal otherwise she can't perform the ritual.

[blahblahblah]

 

I believe that is pretty easy to find Morrigan,  with all the resources of the HoF especially if the Warden is a ruler

Actually she is in the Orlesian court for some years,is pretty difficult to miss her location,is just the Warden who don't care anymore after the attack of Wh that was enough for my Warden.

 

It's very easy for her to disappear through an Eluvian. And in Witch Hunt, she waited you even if the Warden has an intent to kill her.

[Secret Rare]

She didn't join - Captain Janeway forced her to tag along with the Warden.
 

 is capitain janeway Flemeth?

Nope is not always Flemeth's fault (poor Flemeth) Flemeth did not force her,it was Morrigan who accepted,the two of them agreed to the plan,Flemeth suggested,Morrigan accepted.

[blahblahblah]

 

Nope she is part of the group and she joined full knowing the Warden  goal,if she leave before of the death of the AD is desertion,this work with every companion who decided to join the Warden,with each of them,the only one who tell to the Warden that will follow for another purpose is Shale,Shale tell to the Warden since the beggining that she is there only to recover her memories .

It's called betrayal from the group perspective.

She need to tell to the Warden her goal otherwise she can't perform the ritual.

 

LOL, are you serious? She's not part of the Wardens to deal with. Anyone in your party can leave you when their relationship with you is hostile except Alistair and Dog. So you're saying that they betray you as well? Alistair and Zevran is a betrayal since the former is a fellow warden who will abandon you when Loghian was recruited and the latter when he joined with Taliesen and both sworn loyalty on you.

[caradoc2000]

 is capitain janeway Flemeth?

Yah