70 réponses à ce sujet

[S Seraff]

@ corniliuS, gameplay is about more than combat. my claim is that "Casual" difficulty emphasizes the combat portion of gameplay too much. 

[Rawgrim]

@ corniliuS, gameplay is about more than combat. my claim is that "Casual" difficulty emphasizes the combat portion of gameplay too much. 

 

The focus of this game IS action man. It says ACTION-rpg right there on the main website. Combat is the main bulk of this game. Hence the short story.

[bondari reloads.]

Luckily, games can be a lot of things, indeed if DAI's only appeal were its gameplay a lot of people wouldn't have bothered to hang around or just play MP.

Putting gameplay above story in a BW game won't ever happen, unless EA wills it so. Ico, Journey and Telltale's TWD are all games, and quite successful ones at that.
Even "Twitcher" 3 has a Story Mode. Didn't dumb that game down in the least, apparently.
So why not the same feature for DA? ME3 has one, too I think

[Lady Ishtar]

The only thing that can make Casual any easier is a "win combat" button.

You miss the point. It is about time. On casual (on any difficult really since combat is a bore) anything with HP of 100 or more is just cruel. Specially when there are enemies that require positioning to cause regular damage or others that hide... well... really, I just want to skip to the story.
Inquisition combat is a lot easier than Origins right? But because of stupid combat system I spend a lot more time on casual in Inquisition than on hard on Origins, except perhaps in "boss fights" where I spend my focus abilities and bosses just vaporize.

[Gwydden]

For me difficulty is mainly about pacing.

 

I've played ME on Veteran a few times without a hitch, but I did that because I enjoyed the gameplay and was up for a challenge. I don't particularly enjoy the combat in DAI. In fact, quite often it is tedious, and made even more tedious by the fact that most of it is completely pointless. I don't find Normal in DAI to be hard at all. But I'd still like Casual to be less time consuming because I'm not willing to invest the time required in higher difficulties. It just stresses me and makes me want to give up on the game.

[BeyondTheStars]

The entire game should not be made more easy, nor used as an excuse, to please those who want easy fights; because that will displease those who like challenging fights. And everyone is inbetween these two extremes, never pleased with how "easy" or "hard" the game it is, relative to what they wish. Also there are technical reasons that won't allow a more gradual difficulty slider, and more or less, everyone feels at times frustrated, because how easy/hard that part was. Most likely those who want "normal" difficulty, can't be pleased currently, unless a new innovation solves this. But making it extremely difficult - that should be possible. And adding a "god mode" + "one shot kill" (or 2-3 hits in case of a boss) as easiest setting, it's also possible. This is what the OP asked IMO, not "dumbing down" fights further.

 

Once a while ago, games had "cheat" codes, that solved such "problems". Now in the age of DRM and limited modding, one have to find/buy "trainers", or skip buying/playing the game. Or just fight it (literally), which is the opposite of enjoyment. Some people want to "skip" fights (in certain games) in a way that's still immersive, for many different reasons: bad controls (you have to fight the controls, not the enemies, and you die because the system doesn't respond/react properly), frustrating allied AI that breaks immersion (think about what our companions do during fights... even if you do your utmost to "micromanage" them), a fight mode that is not fun for them (for various reasons) and the least that can be offered as "compensation" for supporting your games is to let them pass through these - really easy mode. There are health issues (broken arm, but still wanting to experience the story unfolding) and more. Why should we send them to "read books", when a game can do more (graphics, voice, music, and choices among others, such as one-hit kill "fights") and they still can have fun playing it and their money is just as good.

 

I played this game once, and never started it again, because many reasons. Was a real effort (because the controls), but I got through. Many things were enjoyable and had a good time: landscapes, story, music. I play competitive PvP games and I enjoy them, difficulty is meaningful there, but in this game I used god-mode to speed up parts, and not because the fights are "hard" (or easy), but because... doesn't matter. Really. In the end, if it is not fun, and you still have to do it, to get to those parts that are fun - the entire experience will be more polluted. Why end with a fun rating of 3 out of 5 because of fights, when I could have 4 out of 5.

[berelinde]

The only thing that can make Casual any easier is a "win combat" button.

The same could be said of Nightmare. The only difference between the two seems to be about 50% more health points. I was halfway through Nightmare "In Your Heart Shall Burn" before I realized that I had forgotten to switch Varric into some real armor, so he wound up fighting the entire thing in Qunari light armor. I had to keep an eye on his health bar, but I didn't have to hit any of the potion caches and I didn't have to kite. And Blackwall, Varric and Vivienne all survived purely on AI without me taking over control of them once. So, no, you really don't get any Hardcore Gamer Points for that boast. Anybody can do it if they're patient enough.

 

Nobody plays Dragon Age games because they enjoy sphincter-clenched, white-knuckled combat. It isn't that kind of game, and it never was. People play Dragon Age because they enjoy the story and character interaction. Yeah, combat is part of that and it shouldn't be neglected, but they need to broaden the range between Casual and Nightmare, not reduce it.

 

If it were up to me, I'd say, Yeah! Go ahead and drop enemy health to nothing in Casual mode. But then add a tier above Nightmare and give enemies some real tactics and abilities. The kind of thing you need both luck and skill to overcome, not just the ability to kite until you can change weapons or disengage entirely.

[Dutch's Ghost]

Why don't you just read a book instead? DA isn't that much great on the writing and storytelling side of things.

[berelinde]

Because folks like playing Dragon Age games. Not everyone agrees with your assessment on the writing and storytelling side of things, Dutch's Ghost.

[BeyondTheStars]

DA (and most Bioware games to date) IMO - are great "on the writing and storytelling side of things" (no irony there). I like most of Bioware writing, despite flaws here and there; it's still among the finest in any game out there. I throughly enjoyed talking with Wynne (though she was annoying a bit... ), I liked the answers my Warden could give, same with Morrigan, even Varric at times (he is more than Solas), and Iron Bull (I liked talking with him, more than any other companion), and without going off-topic even more: the talks with Mordin were both fun and meaningful.

Bioware games contain deep wisdom, equal to the best parts from many books. Our generation is trully blessed to have access to content like this... provided that those lines are read and leads to thinking and understanding (and not skipped or ignored, which is still a valid way to play... "wisdom" can wait longer, and it's not for the impatient)

 

Of course, we can agree to disagree, and we play Bioware games for different reason(s) - but all are valid, and should be. "Mindless" shooting can be fun, and too many talks -- boring. If anything we don't like can be "skipped" or rather: shortened, ignored (being optional content), avoided - that's less reason to not buy it and play it. What is asked in OP, it's possible to be done by adjusting just two values - incoming damage set to 0 (or rather close to 0, just to keep immersion alive) and outgoing damage set to extremely high, like 10x times, 100x times the base value... they already have these usually, used when testing internally. It's just making "easy" difficulty setting truly easy, and that shouldn't offend those who like it "hard".

 

Most of the times, at least me, when I want to "skip" fights in an RPG, it's because I don't enjoy how it is implemented. But rather than starting posts after posts and bashing the devs for their failure (seeming or arguable), and not playing the game ever, not even once, because "the fighting system is a failure" (always subjective opinion), I play it with these "skip" solutions -- because the entire game is more than just parts of it, more than just fights, story, scenery, music, dialogues, lore, puzzles, and everyhting else. Nobody should feel unwelcome to enjoy only some of these, if that's possible.

[Paul E Dangerously]

This just makes me wish BIoware had a similar mod policy to Bethesda. Then I'd fully expect someone to mod all the combat out of the game so you'd just be left with essentially a visual novel. Pointless. Amusing, but pointless.

 

That said, there's something of a legitimate discussion here if you can pare away all the extraneous junk. Get rid of the "it's too hard" or "I don't want to do combat at all" or "You'll make it too easy" stuff. The HP Sink has always been a tool of developers that don't want to look too hard into balance, and it's never not been annoying as all get out.

 

Probably a discussion more inline for the Combat & Strategy board rather than here, though.

[BeyondTheStars]

Removing all the combat is not the point here. The "skip" is not meant literally, at least not in this thread.

 

All that was asked is to make the already included, fight related (since doesn't make puzzles easier, jumping or other things either) lowest difficulty setting: really easy; and not just relatively easy, compared to harder settings.

 

What anyone has to gain, by submitting someone or wishing that everyone be challenged or made to spend more time "fighting" - even when those players who clearly don't like doing that... Nothing. Except that there will be less crying and calls for better fighting system, because people will just give up on that side of the game and ignore it... Like I do. What's the point playing it, if you don't enjoy the fights? One don't have to understand it, no need for that. It's enough to know, that some pople have enough fun, playing that rest of the game that's there, beyond the fights. Pointless or not. (It's not... rather the fights vs. an AI are, but why argue, when personal preferences define what is meaningful in a game)

[S Seraff]

in this game, progress is often combat-gated,  which (in this game) = tedium-gated = time-gated = annoyance-gated

I'd like Casual to minimize this feature

[Dai Grepher]

Casual should be one hit kill on every enemy except bosses, which would take 10 hits.

 

Nightmare should be advanced AI, higher enemy health bars, and higher enemy attack.

[ashwind]

Beefing up health to simulate difficulty is the worst form of game design especially in a semi action rpg.

I personally think the best action combat bioware ever made was ME2. Enemies at higher difficulty has more layer on defence, more aggressive and use skills mercilessly. At the same time, players have skills to rip their defences nearly instantly even on Insanity.

In ME2 Insanity, u can die in 3sec but u can also down enemies as fast. Casual, enemies basically just... stand there.

[Lady Luminous]

Great! People looking for story in games instead reading a book, and because they not interested in game play whatsoever, they want easy even easier, as a result every next installment of DA more dumber than previous.

 

I play games not for the combat, but for the fact that I have a level of control and immersion that I simply don't get with a book or a movie. 

 

I want combat to go by quickly, because to me it is merely an obstacle to the next chapter. I don't want a dumbed down game, in fact I'd love one that had tactical story elements (similar to the war table, but more involved than clicking a button) or more puzzles. Just something more mental ability rather than figuring my way around a battlefield.

 

I like creating characters and making choices that have a plot outcome, that is why I play RPGs. 

[CorniliuS]

I play games not for the combat, but for the fact that I have a level of control and immersion that I simply don't get with a book or a movie. 

 

I want combat to go by quickly, because to me it is merely an obstacle to the next chapter.

When I watch baseball I want the game to end quickly because I'm only interested in hotdogs and commercials, and maybe watch somebody kissing on a kisscam. Basically this is what you saying. Perhaps you should just eat hotdogs and watch how somebody kisses in some place else because you missing the whole purpose of game. But since you bought the ticket please don’t ask to simplify the rules you ruin it for people who there for the actual game, just sit there, watch your kisscam and be quiet.

[S Seraff]

Beefing up health to simulate difficulty is the worst form of game design especially in a semi action rpg.

 

 

this

 

and @CaptivatingKS i'm with you. 

[Lady Luminous]

When I watch baseball I want the game to end quickly because I'm only interested in hotdogs and commercials, and maybe watch somebody kissing on a kisscam. Basically this is what you saying. Perhaps you should just eat hotdogs and watch how somebody kisses in some place else because you missing the whole purpose of game. But since you bought the ticket please don’t ask to simplify the rules you ruin it for people who there for the actual game, just sit there, watch your kisscam and be quiet.

wow, that was just really crude and disrespectful.

I have 6 full playthroughs of DA:I. I don't skip much and I get through all the fights, I just wish they were less of a time-sink.

Obviously we get two completely different experiences out of this game; I just don't understand your derision towards me.

[lynroy]

When I watch baseball I want the game to end quickly because I'm only interested in hotdogs and commercials, and maybe watch somebody kissing on a kisscam. Basically this is what you saying. Perhaps you should just eat hotdogs and watch how somebody kisses in some place else because you missing the whole purpose of game. But since you bought the ticket please don’t ask to simplify the rules you ruin it for people who there for the actual game, just sit there, watch your kisscam and be quiet.

How is asking for easier combat on CASUAL ruining it for the rest of us?

[daveliam]

I usually play Bioware games on casual because, while I don't mind combat, it's not what brings me to these games.  I've never found them to be too difficult or tedious on casual.  Then I played Descent and ran into that emissary alpha.  And I changed my mind because that was an insanely difficult battle on casual.

[Lady Luminous]

I usually play Bioware games on casual because, while I don't mind combat, it's not what brings me to these games. I've never found them to be too difficult or tedious on casual. Then I played Descent and ran into that emissary alpha. And I changed my mind because that was an insanely difficult battle on casual.

I don't find the casual battles difficult either, but I do find fighting bears every five or ten minutes certainly tedius.

[Lady Luminous]

How is asking for easier combat on CASUAL ruining it for the rest of us?

I'd even be happy with a level below casual, story mode, so that it doesn't impact anyone currently happy with casual.

I don't want to impede anyone else's enjoyment of the game.

[CorniliuS]

wow, that was just really crude and disrespectful.

My apologies obviously I was rude.

 

How is asking for easier combat on CASUAL ruining it for the rest of us?

Because it's leaning towards people who don’t like combat, and eventually DA will transform in some version of medieval sims. DA is action rpg not a relations simulator, and some rpg elements we already lost, probably forever, dumb down the action element and what will remain? Kissing?

[Lady Luminous]

My apologies obviously I was rude.

Because it's leaning towards people who don’t like combat, and eventually DA will transform in some version of medieval sims. DA is action rpg not a relations simulator, and some rpg elements we already lost, probably forever, dumb down the action element and what will remain? Kissing?

Personally I really like the political RPG aspects like the Landsmeet andakong judgements on prisoners. Hell, I even like aspects of the Wicked Hearts ball.

RPGs do have romances, which are great sure, but we aren't all in it for the relationships.