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(Descent Spoilers) The Blight and ancient Gods.


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#1
Reznore57

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With the reveals in the Descent , like many others , my mind is going in crazy theories overdrive.

I probably won't be super clear , because I tend to be all over the place .

I'm sorry about this but let's hope this will make a bit of sense.

 

So we found out about the Titans , giant things living underground .

Their blood is lyrium.

And the dwarves are linked to them.

So far there's a couple of cases :

  • The dwarves who have lost their Stone sense .Probably from living too long away from any Titans.
  • Those who kept part of it , they can hear the "Stone" .What they hear is the Titans trying to communicate.It's also being called a "Song".
  • And some dwarves who are trying to recreate some lost bond by drinking Titan's blood ,they gain some perks :immortality and are stronger ..But that's not what they want .
  • What they want is what Shaper Valta gets , a direct link to the Titans mind , making dwarves and Titans able to communicate and tap directly into the lyrium power .Getting a new form of magic.It's the purest form of the dwarves , Valta felt "great" and "more alive".

 

Last point those giants earthlike creature are asleep and only something special can awoke them .Like a breach in the veil.

 

                                                                                                                                   

 

There's another form of giant powerful magical ...blablabla lifeform : The Great Dragons.

From what Flemythal told to one of her daughters , those great beast ruled the sky at a time before the veil.

Their blood is the "blood of the world" , and there's also talk of the "old song"beating in the blood.

Like the Titans , the beasts are now asleep and forgotten (People only knows about High dragons , and they thought they were extinct) and only some kind of blood ritual can woke them up.

It's possible the Archdemons /Old Gods are Great Dragons too.

 

We've also seen  the odd behavior between Dragons and mortals , like what happened in Haven , humans forming a symbiosis with the beast , drinking its blood (or the blood of its young) and in exchange protecting the eggs etc...

 

If it's the same story as the Titans , drinking the blood like this may also be a attempt to recreate a lost bond.

 

                                                                                                                                        

 

The Blight.

 

And now there's the Blight.

So far there's two known type of Blight , the one affecting Lyrium , and the one coming from the Golden City.

Those are different.

 

People affected by Red lyrium , hear a song , wants to eat lyrium or make other people eat the lyrium , basically they are under a compulsion to grow the thing .

What they don't do is dig for Archdemons.

I assume what they hear is the Titans , and not the Old Gods.

 

I don't know exactly what the hell happened but I assume some of those very old beings got corrupted by the Blight at one point in time .

 

Let's go back to the "Song" , in the Titans's case , the Song has nothing to do with the Blight , The Song is just Titans communicating with the dwarves .

 

Spoiler

 

From this codex I assume Corrupted Titans are the one singing through Red Lyrium.

So now let's go back to our Archdemons , if it works the same way for our dragons , it means the dragons/their blood are blighted.

But wait, we know their bodies are fine .They are burried underground , asleep ...

Remember what Cory found in the Golden city?Nothing .

Chaos , dead whispers.

What if the elves used blood magic from the blood of those 7 to build the Golden City?

 

Again I don't know how the hell the Blight happened in the first place , but the different songs seem to come from the Titans/Old Gods .Not the blight , the Blight is just recreating a forgotten bond , just a twisted version.

Remember Flemythal she lament about the "darkness" and she says "as long as the music plays we dance."

 

                                                                                                    

 

Pieces of Lost History :

 

We don't know much about the old elven/dwarven civilization , and even less before they created their empires.

 

From what Flemythal taught to her daughters , at least on the surface there were great dragons ruling , and Mythal thought they were important and worth preserving.

 

Now looking at the elven empire , the elven Gods were mimicking the Great Dragons via shapeshifting ,  dragon could have been a sacred form .

But they weren't ruled by dragons .

 

In WOT2 Bodhan stumbled upon a Thaig with golden mosaic showing dwarves and Elves fighting dragons and different beasts.

Dwarves were scared of dragons , they had a special rune meaning dragon they carved on their weapons ...even when they were living underground.

The Primeval Thaig is also a cluster of WTH is going on , the Red Lyrium Idol doesn't look dwarven , probably elven , and the statues look like twisted and dark versions of the elven mosaic showing dragons/Mythal.

 

Whatever happened , I assume before creating their empire and some of the elves claiming godhood for themselves , they got rid of the dragons somehow.

 

And now the Titans , a couple of codices shows ,elves may have kicked some Titans'a**es.

 

"In this place we prepare to hunt the pillars of the earth. Their workers scurry, witless, soulless. This death will be a mercy. We will make the earth blossom with their passing."

For one moment there is a vivid image of two overlapping spheres; unknown flowers bloom inside their centers. Then it fades"

 

(the sphere things was also found in the Emergent Compendium in the Black Emporium :"Two shadowed spheres among stars subtitled An eclipse as Fen'Harel stirred " ...but I don't want to think too much about it.)

 

 

"Elgar'nan Wrath and Thunder,
Give us glory.
Give us victory, over the Earth that shakes our cities.
Strike the usurpers with your lightning.
Burn the ground under your gaze.
Bring Winged Death against those who throw down our work.

Elgar'nan, help us tame the land
."

 

Hunt the pillars of the earth is pretty straighforward , the Elgar'nan prayer implies there were earthquakes (so Titans were still awake).

But I'm bloody confused to be honest.

At some point in time , dwarves and elves fought together for whatever reasons.

But it doesn't feel like they had good relationship when it comes to their "Gods" , dwarves didn't like dragons , elves didn't like Titans.

 

Solas implies losing the connexion to the Titans was bad , but in the text "witless, soulless workers" doesn't sound too good either.

 

At one point in time I believe both races got their ancient Godlikes figures blighted.

Maybe by simply killing them , who knows .

Great Dragons and Titans are now asleep , and what happened in the Golden City and in the Primeval Thaig was contained.

                                                                              

 

TL;DR : you probably saved yourself an headache!

 

 



#2
Dr. Doctor

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From the lore surrounding Andruil:
Spoiler


The lore behind the Elven Pantheon (being creations of the Sun and the Land) might not be allegory. Titan's blood grants immortality and can fuel magical abilities. Elves can be mages and have a connection to the Fade, so if the Pantheon consumed Titan's blood to bolster their magic to nigh godlike levels and grant them immortality the origin story might be a metaphorical take on it.

The question is what exactly is the Void? It's the place where the Forgotten Ones were trapped, but it doesn't explain where Paragon Carradin would get the idea to name his creation the Anvil of the Void. If the world is a part of the Titans then the Void could be areas where the Titans have been blighted or slain.

Or the Elves refer to the Titans as the Forgotten Ones because their existence was stricken from memory. The Dwarves removed all record of them from the Memories, and Mythal took the knowledge of their location from Andruil. The Black City might be the area of the Fade that the consciousness of the Titans was trapped in. When the Magisters breached the wards sealing it they triggered the Blight.
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#3
birefringent

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TL;DR : you probably saved yourself an headache!

I find it quite interesting how a lot of this stuff sound very similar to the mythology where the Olympian Gods were battling the Titans for supremacy of the universe.



#4
Yinj

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So we have blighted Titans and blighted Old Gods (Great Dragons). The blighted Titans are linked to Red Lyrium (Lyrium = Titans Blood) and the blighted Old Gods are linked to the Darkspawn (maybe the have the Blood of these Old Gods in them?). Both things are connected to a "Song" you hear when you consume it. Maybe those Corrupted Titans and Old Gods were "locked in" the Golden City/Black City. 

 

I think the Old Gods tricked the Tevinter Magisters into Breaching the Golden/Black City, knowing it would open the "Lock" and  give them a way out of the Fade.



#5
Ranadiel Marius

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Or the Elves refer to the Titans as the Forgotten Ones because their existence was stricken from memory. The Dwarves removed all record of them from the Memories, and Mythal took the knowledge of their location from Andruil. The Black City might be the area of the Fade that the consciousness of the Titans was trapped in. When the Magisters breached the wards sealing it they triggered the Blight.

Nah, we have evidence that the Forgotten Ones are elvhes who didn't believe the Elvhen Pantheon were gods and sought to find a way to match their powers. Titans by all appearances would be too large to fit into the location where the note is found. Now then there are implications that the Elvhen Gods may have had a close tie to dragons. So one possibility could be that the Elvhen Gods tamed the dragons once ruled the sky and then the Forgotten Ones responded by trying to do the same to the Titans (with some uncertainty as to how successful they were).



#6
Reznore57

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From the lore surrounding Andruil:

Spoiler


The lore behind the Elven Pantheon (being creations of the Sun and the Land) might not be allegory. Titan's blood grants immortality and can fuel magical abilities. Elves can be mages and have a connection to the Fade, so if the Pantheon consumed Titan's blood to bolster their magic to nigh godlike levels and grant them immortality the origin story might be a metaphorical take on it.

The question is what exactly is the Void? It's the place where the Forgotten Ones were trapped, but it doesn't explain where Paragon Carradin would get the idea to name his creation the Anvil of the Void. If the world is a part of the Titans then the Void could be areas where the Titans have been blighted or slain.

Or the Elves refer to the Titans as the Forgotten Ones because their existence was stricken from memory. The Dwarves removed all record of them from the Memories, and Mythal took the knowledge of their location from Andruil. The Black City might be the area of the Fade that the consciousness of the Titans was trapped in. When the Magisters breached the wards sealing it they triggered the Blight.

 

The thing is raw lyrium is quite bad for people who have a deep connexion to the fade.

It seems lyrium reinforce reality and the fade bends it .

You end up with some people bleeding from every orifice near the stuff.(I know it never happens in game , but I swear it's in the lore!That's why dwarves have the monopole on lyrium since forever)

 

Also Solas says all the elves were immortal , if you look at in uthenera , they went to sleep and didn't drink blood but draw energy from the fade itself.

Now keep in mind the Fade probably wasn't some alien place back then , if there was no veil , the fade was probably well just there ...like what we saw in In Hushed Whispers in DAI.With stuff starting to float around etc...Possible the Titans and their blood were keeping things from getting too weird and making elves able to destroy reality on a whim.

 

 

About the Void , I'm quite clueless.

It seems it was bad enough to be taboo for the Elven Gods , even they were forbidden from going there.

It could be  located in Thedas.

It could be  located in the Fade.

It could be located in the Crossroads.

Or it could even be its own special place...

 

It seems the Forgotten Ones were a bunch of powerful elves who were trying to overthrow the Elven Gods because they were questioning their divinity.

So chances are everything you read about them in an "Official" elven god temple is going to ooze propaganda.

Were the Forgotten Ones really in the Void?

It's possible , but if you believe Andruil got blighted there...it's not really a good place to stay.

Maybe they thought it would be the only safe place for them , or maybe they wanted to use Blight magic...don't know.

 

In JOH we found a Forgotten Ones temple/tomb , it wasn't in the "Void".

Solasan temple use the same architecture and keep on the theme "elemental magic thingie" going on.Not in the Void either.

But if it was a Forgotten Ones temple , it was probably a place where they went in uthenera , there's nothing but tombs , and arcane horror and a demon popping up.

So it's possible the "Void" was in the fade.

 

The only thing we're left with is two pocket of the blight .

 

One was contained in the Golden City.It's really hard to say what was infected in there since there was bloody nothing.

This one is linked to the Old Gods burried underground , it carried their song.

This type of Blight was somehow able to create a whole new race on its own , the Darkspawn .

The spawn are the main thing carrying the blight .

 

And then the second infected place was the Primeval Thaig.

There was a creepy Red Lyrium Idol in there , and it's obvious the dwarves sealed off the place and left some to die , and just tried to forget about it.There's also some hints of elven presence.(look table , + Idol )

This time we know what was infected and carrying the source of the Blight , the Lyrium , blood of the Titans.

After a while near the stuff , people loose it , dwarves at least hear a song , wants to worship the thing and make other people eat lyrium.

That's how the Blighted lyrium spread ,it grows from people/animals , it feed on life.

But Red Lyrium doesn't carry the Old God song , like the good old regular Blight , people who ate red lyrium don't feel like digging up an old god , it's a different type of siren's call.

 

Now the link between Old Gods and Titans is ...they are asleep.

With the Old Gods being burried underground and talks of darks spell in their prison , I doubt it was a natural peaceful slumber.

The Titan who's communicating with Valta also complains about something happening breaking the bond between dwarves and Titans , Valta talks of the Fall of the Titans causing the Fall of the dwarves.(something bad we know probably happened is the elves attacking them ....)

 

Still doesn't explain the Blight though .



#7
Brass_Buckles

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Reznore, I think you're getting close, but the Old Gods are not corrupt until the darkspawn reach them, at which point they are infected by the Blight.  They don't lead the Blight and they don't create it, unless the unknown extra Old God is the one who started it all.  They're basically just sleeping dragons, possibly with spirits inside of them, until the darkspawn dig one up and infect it.

 

My suspicion is that the blight somehow originates with the Titans, or that it began because of a Titan getting infected.

 

Something of interest:  In general shape/style, the Guardian boss strongly resembles a broodmother made of stone and lyrium.  Whatever is behind the Blight might be shaping the creation of its creatures to mimic the Stone and its creations.



#8
Reznore57

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Reznore, I think you're getting close, but the Old Gods are not corrupt until the darkspawn reach them, at which point they are infected by the Blight.  They don't lead the Blight and they don't create it, unless the unknown extra Old God is the one who started it all.  They're basically just sleeping dragons, possibly with spirits inside of them, until the darkspawn dig one up and infect it.

 

I know but there's something funny going on with the Old Gods.

The thing is those uncorrupted dragons underground sing to the Darkspawn and people infected with the taint.

The Blight also wakes them up .

And it seems their Old Tevinter priests are drawn to them , it's unclear why.

The Wardens used Dumat carcass and its blood to bait Corypheus and catch him.

The Architect woke up the Dragon of Beauty he used to worship , but he doesn't remember his old mortal life.

 

 

What annoys me is the freaking Golden city.

We're told only living thing can carry the Blight , but as far as the story goes , there was nothing alive in the Golden City.

Coryphinoob doesn't talk even about seeing lyrium , it may have been the "Void" .

But then how is the "Void" able to carry the tune of huge dragon burried underground ./headache.

 


Something of interest:  In general shape/style, the Guardian boss strongly resembles a broodmother made of stone and lyrium.  Whatever is behind the Blight might be shaping the creation of its creatures to mimic the Stone and its creations.

 

I thought it looked like the huge rock wraith boss we got in the Primeval Thaig popping out of a heart made of lyrium.

But it's possible , yes , the Blight mimics some stuff from the infected main source .

 

In the case of red lyrium , it grows feeding on life.

We know dwarves "return " to the Stone when they die ...it's possible Titans are/were absorbing dead dwarves .

Red lyrium was also able to animate statue , and move stuff around.

Again with lyrium you can create Golem , and Shaper Valta magic seemed to be based on force , she throw some force field at the Inquisitor , she doesn't start farting fire.

There's no sign of red lyrium granting immortality so far , it seems it kills its host.

But same goes for regular people infected by the blight and turning into ghouls.

 

The only equivalent of darkspawn I can think of is the Profane.Dwarves turning into rock wraith.Those are probably immortal.

 

                                                                                          

 

Now the Blight from the Golden City , well Corynoob gained some abilities , the whole soul jumping into a host.

Archdemons are able to do that , and well Flemythal  "Bodies are such limiting things."

There's also some shapeshifting involved , Cory and the Archdemons are able to shape back into their normal form .

The wardens can unlock some new power using the Blight , those are all linked to blood magic .It's in the Soldier's Peak DLC , but erf hard to say of it's official lore or just gameplay.

Avernus was able to expand its lifetime with Blight magic , he said it was all linked to the Golden City but ...this isn't helping.

The Blight magic , darkspawn use isn't expanded much upon , it doesn't seem to be anything else than a corrupted version of what a mage can do .

 

One of the other main difference.

Red lyrium kills to spread itself and the Blight.

The original taint produce a new life form to do the job.



#9
FrankWisdom

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I know but there's something funny going on with the Old Gods.

The thing is those uncorrupted dragons underground sing to the Darkspawn and people infected with the taint.

The Blight also wakes them up .

And it seems their Old Tevinter priests are drawn to them , it's unclear why.

The Wardens used Dumat carcass and its blood to bait Corypheus and catch him.

The Architect woke up the Dragon of Beauty he used to worship , but he doesn't remember his old mortal life.

 

 

What annoys me is the freaking Golden city.

We're told only living thing can carry the Blight , but as far as the story goes , there was nothing alive in the Golden City.

Coryphinoob doesn't talk even about seeing lyrium , it may have been the "Void" .

But then how is the "Void" able to carry the tune of huge dragon burried underground ./headache.

 

 

 

I thought it looked like the huge rock wraith boss we got in the Primeval Thaig popping out of a heart made of lyrium.

But it's possible , yes , the Blight mimics some stuff from the infected main source .

 

In the case of red lyrium , it grows feeding on life.

We know dwarves "return " to the Stone when they die ...it's possible Titans are/were absorbing dead dwarves .

Red lyrium was also able to animate statue , and move stuff around.

Again with lyrium you can create Golem , and Shaper Valta magic seemed to be based on force , she throw some force field at the Inquisitor , she doesn't start farting fire.

There's no sign of red lyrium granting immortality so far , it seems it kills its host.

But same goes for regular people infected by the blight and turning into ghouls.

 

The only equivalent of darkspawn I can think of is the Profane.Dwarves turning into rock wraith.Those are probably immortal.

 

                                                                                          

 

Now the Blight from the Golden City , well Corynoob gained some abilities , the whole soul jumping into a host.

Archdemons are able to do that , and well Flemythal  "Bodies are such limiting things."

There's also some shapeshifting involved , Cory and the Archdemons are able to shape back into their normal form .

The wardens can unlock some new power using the Blight , those are all linked to blood magic .It's in the Soldier's Peak DLC , but erf hard to say of it's official lore or just gameplay.

Avernus was able to expand its lifetime with Blight magic , he said it was all linked to the Golden City but ...this isn't helping.

The Blight magic , darkspawn use isn't expanded much upon , it doesn't seem to be anything else than a corrupted version of what a mage can do .

 

One of the other main difference.

Red lyrium kills to spread itself and the Blight.

The original taint produce a new life form to do the job.

Very interesting theories on the thread so far. I might have some answers to your question in my thread. My main concern/annoyance is also the "Golden City". I;ll link my thread. If you're interested check it out. I can copy paste some of my thoughts from there in this thread if you like. I organized it in a way that's themed. So finding a particular subject to talk about is easy,

 

http://forum.bioware...es-discussions/

 

I also posted a thread on the descent, but what I wrote is included in my main thread.

 

The Red Lyrium codex does peak my interest, as I don't think the Titans can be infected. I'll copy paste part of my post (which I posted on the Dwarf support thread) to explain the reasoning behind my thoughts.

 

First off I don't think the ancient Elvhen were at war with the Titans during the fall of Arlathan. I think that due to Fen'Harel's machinations and rebellion, they had their hands full (though we do have proof that they had skirmishes with Dwarves and Titans). I think he and Mythal were the ones who created the veil (with the use of the Elvhen Foci Orbs) in order to separate the spiritual and physical aspects of the Elvhen Pantheon, so no one could reach them (both to protect them and assure no one could restore/free them).

 

Yavanna from the Secret Grove Comics tells Alistair that "Your heart beats with the old blood, as well. Where do you think it comes from? It sings of a time when dragons ruled the skies. A time before the Veil, before the mysteries were forgotten. Can you hear it?"

 

The wording is interesting "Your blood sings". Blood that sings found within Dragon and Titan. She also talks about a "Queen of Dragons" that hears the song.... Interesting stuff and I have a lot to say about it :) Anyways, let's continue.

 

I believe Dragon's ruled the skies and Titan's ruled the earth (yeah that part seems pretty straight forward given Yavana's comments and what we now know about Titans).  (Elven Pantheon=Dragons, Dwarves=Titans). I believe they lived in harmony, aspects of the same coin. Both holding dominion over their respective Kingdoms. I believe the magic granted by the Titan's is primal, an antithesis to the magic found from the Fade and used by Elves. I don't mean anti-magic. I mean... different, like yin and yang or positive and negative attraction. I think that's why Templar's can "cancel out" a mage's magic.

 

I think the creation of the veil is what could have disrupted the symbiotic relationship that the Dwarves had with the Titans. I think this might have given them a taste of what individual thought feels like (freethinking) and they liked it. I also think that the song emanating from Titans and Titan's blood is what drives the darkspawn away.

 

I think it interferes with the calling. I also think that the song emanating from mined lyrium is an echo of the living, flowing song from pure "circulating" Titan's blood. I think of it as trace DNA or in simpler terms "dried up" Titan's blood which has no more connection to the Titan's, only an imprint of what was, like a memory. I believe that is why this mined lyrium can be infected by the blight. I have a hard time believing a Titan could be corrupted, but I'm not rejecting the notion outright.

 

What I think happened with red lyrium that's more likely is that once the Dwarves branched off from their brethren, chaos ensued. Think of it, their whole outlook on life would have changed. They would probably relish their freedom yet feel like something was missing, an emptiness where once there was a song, warmth and reassurance. Without the Titan symbiosis, I think Dwarves found different ways to cope, some better than others.

 

I believe that the profane for example are a product of this hardship

 

We who are forgotten, remember (forgotten by the Dwarves who stayed with the Titans)

 

We clawed at rock until our fingers bled, (they either wanted to rejoin their brethren, begging them to let them return to the stone or they wandered the deep roads and found themselves literally trapped or imprisoned)

 

What Valta described comes to mind "fell into a warm light's embrace", as if returning to the Stone.

 

We cried out for justice, but were unheard. (neither the Titans nor their brethren could hear them)
 

Our children wept in hunger, (literal)
 

And so we feasted upon the gods. (they feasted upon Titan's blood, without being part of them, which, I'm guessing, is blasphemy. It's also noted that they still remember the Titans, so this is very old indeed)

 

Here we wait, in aeons of silence. (silence, because they can't hear the song)

 

We few, we profane (based on their actions, they consider themselves profane, literally split from the "gods" "teachings" (in this case the hive mind or the empathic symbiosis they had with the Titans).

 

I think something similar happened with the Primeval Thaig. I believe that some Dwarves who separated from the Titans couldn't cope with the silence (the lack of Titan symbiosis). This drove them to look for an alternative. I believe Dumat called out and they heard. I think they willingly corrupted the lyrium and were in turn corrupted in order to hear the calling, something to fill the silence. Their connection to lyrium might have still been strong, stronger than it is with modern day Dwarves at the very least.  This is probably how red lyrium came to be. The Thaig might have been shaped with magic before it was corrupted also, keep that in mind. I don't have any details, but it seems like the most logical explanation in my mind.

 

I think the blight is a product of the Forgotten Ones. I think the Void is where the blight comes from. The effects it had on Andruil (in the legend) are too similar for me to dismiss them. I don't think The Forgotten Ones are the Titans however. If you read Geldauran's claim, then it is clear that someone with that type of philosophy is not a Titan. Besides, The Forgotten Ones seem too well informed and intimately related to the Elvhen pantheon in my opinion, to be the Titans. Beings who not only live in a different "Kingdom" but also seem to have very different ways of life. The Elvhen pantheon believed in Individuality, they all ruled over factions of their own priests and slaves while Titans, on the other hand, seem to be one with their people, a well-oiled machine.

 


 

Codex entry
Geldauran's Claim

 

There are no gods. There is only the subject and the object, the actor and the acted upon. Those with will to earn dominance over others gain title not by nature but by deed.

 

I am Geldauran, and I refuse those who would exert will upon me. Let Andruil's bow crack, let June's fire grow cold. Let them build temples and lure the faithful with promises. Their pride will consume them, and I, forgotten, will claim power of my own, apart from them until I strike in mastery.

 

I believe "The Forgotten Ones" are who truly whispered to the Magisters. They manipulated the Magisters through their Pride In order to have them enter The Fade physically, as it was once possible before the veil. I think when the Magisters entered "The Golden City" They unleashed The Forgotten Ones' essence. their essence needed a physical body to inhabit. Enter the Magisters. I believe their possession led to their insanity, their lack of memories due to the trauma. Remember that Flemythal said she needed permission to take over a body. What if Taking over a body forcefully twists and disfigures both the parasite and the host involved, this could explain their appearance and what the blight represents. I think the "The Forgotten Ones" want to usurp the "Old God" bodies. Hence why darkspawn search to awaken them. I think Great Dragons are aspects of the Elvhen Pantheon. Anyways all this stuff can be found in the link above. Let me know what you guys think.