18 réponses à ce sujet

[Kakistos_]

At the beginning of the final boss battle in DAI: Descent, Valta, our temporary Dwarf ally and member of the Shaperate is hit with pure Lyrium. Afterwards she unintentionally lashes out with a force that appears to be Magic. Is Valta the first Dwarven Mage?

 

My guess would be no. Valta is clearly changed and the implications are huge but I do not think her change included being connected to the Fade. When questioned on the nature of her "ability" Valta herself says it's not Magic and the rest of the conversation suggest that she has attained some new deeper knowledge that she hints at but declines to share.

 

As to what her "power" actually is I theorize that is it the result of her connection to the Titan and her exposure to Pure Lyrium. I think the Lyrium theory is the most straightforward. We already know that non-Mages when exposed to Lyrium can develop unique abilities. The Templars have their abilities, we know that there are warriors such as Fenris in Tevinter that gain their abilities from Lyrium and then there are the Dwarves of the Shaperate who, even though resistant, are still affected by their exposure.

 

Valta's connection to the Titan and what that entails are less clear as is the true meaning of "Pure". It is possible that her abilities come entirely from the Titan similarly in the manner that Spirit Warriors, while not being Mages, gain Magical abilities from an otherworldly benefactor. Could it also be possible that this enigmatic "Stone" is an alternative source of Magic like the Taint is a source of Magic for Darkspawn?

 

Those are my thoughts on the final moments of Descent. So, what do you think? Is Valta a Dwarven Mage or is there more to the story?

[Dai Grepher]

Earth bending. Valta is the new Avatar.

 

(I don't watch that show BTW, I just wanted to throw out the reference.)

 

Anyway, it's probably the same power the ancestors had to shape stone. Valta can now probably move stone with her mind to sculpt all kinds of structures.

 

This is really no different from how dwarves can use templar abilities or spirit warrior abilities or reaver abilities. So this is just another non-mage specialization.

[Malleficae]

Question is who do you consider mage. I think Valta is dwarven mage but as elven magic is different from human magic, her magic is also different. Titan's hit made her hear "song" so she reminds me of Morrigan after Well of Sorrows. Perhaps Titan teaches her how to shape stone as it does. Let's hope we won't see her again.

[dragondreamer]

I consider her a dwarven mage, but no, I don't believe she's directly connected to the Fade.  She doesn't sleep anymore, so I doubt she dreams.  Probably dwarves never did dream to begin with.  Perhaps the Titan does, because lyrium is closely tied to the Fade.  If the Titan is the nexus of whatever the original hive state of the dwarves was, that might be the dreamer.

 

Although it's possible it could be an alternative power source, such as the Blight, which also produces mages among Darkspawn.  I once had a theory that all the different races might have their own sort of collective consciousness source similar to the Fade.  (The Fade being human.)  It included the idea that the dwarves could no longer use magic because they had been cut off from their "source" somehow, and that actually seems to be the case now.

 

Another interesting thing is that the Chantry believes that dwarves weren't made by the Maker.  But when you consider that it's Chantry belief that the Maker's domain was the Fade, and his act of creation came from there, it makes sense that dwarves wouldn't be included in that if the Titans are a separate sphere of creation.  Then again, maybe they're just being very literal, but it's still a strange statement coming from a monotheist religion. 

 

With this new information, I'm suddenly more interested in the fact that Qunari claim not to dream, and they're reportedly never seen in the Fade...yet they have mages.  Hmm.

[9TailsFox]

[AedanStarfang]

Dwarf mages, yes please!

[Aulis Vaara]

Didn't Solas say that all magic comes from lyrium? Seems to me that Valta is more a mage than anyone else.

[Dabrikishaw]

I'd call her a Dwarven mage. Probably the second one after Sandal.

[Dai Grepher]

Didn't Solas say that all magic comes from lyrium? Seems to me that Valta is more a mage than anyone else.

 

Did he? If so, then Solas is wrong. But I don't remember him saying that.

 

Here's what I understand of magic in Dragon Age. Mages have mana. They use that internal energy to reach across the Veil and pull energy from the Fade and shape it into whatever using a spell. So mana + spell = magic.

 

Warriors and rogues that use energy abilities or abilities that augment physical performance are using their own kind of internal energy. Theirs is not mana. They use their own life force, or mind power, or whatever. So in most cases the energy is originating from them. In some cases (specialties) they too can pull energy from the Fade, though the energy they pull over isn't considered magic. It's just energy. This is because there is no spell involved. Maybe there is some kind of exception for rangers in this regard.

 

So no, Valta isn't a mage because she doesn't use mana. She's using a different kind of internal energy to manipulate reality.

[Aulis Vaara]

So no, Valta isn't a mage because she doesn't use mana. She's using a different kind of internal energy to manipulate reality.

 

Whut? So, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, you still don't think it's a duck because it has a different color of feathers? In fact, Valta is more a mage, because she's actually manipulating reality. Other mages are, according to Cole, actually making spirits and wisps doing it for them (which makes no sense at all when you consider blood magic, but whatever, I'm not convinced Bioware has actually thought their magic system through).

Also:

 

• Solas: Is it true that the entire dwarven economy relies upon lyrium?
• Varric: Mostly. We've got the nug market cornered as well.
• Solas: And the dwarves of Orzammar have never studied lyrium?
• Varric: If they have, they certainly haven't shared anything up here. Why?
• Solas: It is the source of all magic, save that which mages bring themselves.
• Solas: Dwarves alone have the ability to mine it safely. I wondered if they had sought to learn more.
• Varric: The folks back in Orzammar don't care much about anything but tradition.

 

Apparently I only half remembered. Still, what mages bring themselves might still be "blood" and not their connection to the Fade.

[Patchwork]

Volta is a mage but unlike humans and elves who draw from the Fade her power source is the Titan.

 

It's the same principle as darkspawn mages who use the Blight and blood magic. Same result, different sources.

[Kakistos_]

The definition of a Mage is someone who is strongly connected to the Fade and able to draw upon its power. Darkspawn are the exception but even though they are all connected to the Blight only a select few can draw upon its power. Blood, another source of power, can only be drawn upon by someone who is already a Mage just like Grey Warden Mages can draw on the power of the Blight while other Wardens cannot. Nothing in Descent suggested that Valta had been connected to the Fade.

 

Being a Mage is a special attribute, not something that can be given. Valta clearly has some yet unexplained power but blast of energy does not a Mage make. Fenris and Tempars are also capable of generating blasts of energy through their connection with Lyrium. Their status as non Mages is never questioned, Valta does not seem to be different in that regard.

[Guitar-Hero]

Earth bending. Valta is the new Avatar.

 

(I don't watch that show BTW, I just wanted to throw out the reference.)

 

Anyway, it's probably the same power the ancestors had to shape stone. Valta can now probably move stone with her mind to sculpt all kinds of structures.

 

This is really no different from how dwarves can use templar abilities or spirit warrior abilities or reaver abilities. So this is just another non-mage specialization.

You should watch it, one of the best tv shows ever made. Skip the movie though unless you wanna get M.Night Shatupon.

[Dai Grepher]

Whut? So, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, you still don't think it's a duck because it has a different color of feathers? In fact, Valta is more a mage, because she's actually manipulating reality. Other mages are, according to Cole, actually making spirits and wisps doing it for them (which makes no sense at all when you consider blood magic, but whatever, I'm not convinced Bioware has actually thought their magic system through).

Also:

 

Apparently I only half remembered. Still, what mages bring themselves might still be "blood" and not their connection to the Fade.

 

Bro, Spirit Warriors and Shadows can walk like and quack like, but that doesn't makes them anything other than warriors and rogues.

 

Okay, "manipulate reality" is something I meant as a loose term. Every action you take manipulates reality in some way. We don't even know what powers Valta has yet. I was just speculating that she'll be able to restructure rock. If she does that by communicating with lyrium or manipulating it, then she's doing a similar thing as templars, who also use lyrium to make things more real as Solas tells Cassandra.

 

I don't remember Cole saying that either. If he did, then he's wrong. But more likely he was probably just talking about a specific type of magic like necromancy or something.

 

No, Solas wasn't talking about blood magic there. He's referring to what mages draw from the Fade using mana.

 

Listen to Your Trainer. Mages are taught to draw energy from the Fade to cast spells. This is an often fatal mistake when practicing Rift Magic, which is the opposite. With Rift Magic, energy comes pouring out of the Fade, and you have to use your mana and skills to hold the energy back. So yes, it's all about pulling energy from the Fade. It's nothing to do with blood, which is its own source of power.

[Kwanzaabot]

Volta is a mage but unlike humans and elves who draw from the Fade her power source is the Titan.

 

It's the same principle as darkspawn mages who use the Blight and blood magic. Same result, different sources.

Pretty much this. Magic comes in all shapes and sizes.

 

There's blood magic, which uses blood (obviously).

There's Darkspawn magic (which even Genlock Emissaries -if they're still canon- can use), which uses the taint.

There's all sorts of supernatural abilities like Fenris and the Templar abilities, which use lyrium, as well as Reaver abilities which use dragon blood.

And THEN, there's mage magic, which uses mana (but is replenished with lyrium).

 

Mages are not the only source of magic.

[Kakistos_]

Pretty much this. Magic comes in all shapes and sizes.

 

There's blood magic, which uses blood (obviously).

There's Darkspawn magic (which even Genlock Emissaries -if they're still canon- can use), which uses the taint.

There's all sorts of supernatural abilities like Fenris and the Templar abilities, which use lyrium, as well as Reaver abilities which use dragon blood.

And THEN, there's mage magic, which uses mana (but is replenished with lyrium).

 

Mages are not the only source of magic.

Mages ARE the only source of Magic, as you say. More accurately, Mages are the only ones who can call upon the various sources of power. When Wardens warriors use the power of the Taint or Reavers use their techniques it is more like adrenaline, that is their abilities are limited to physical feats. Fenris and Templars are more or less wielding Lyrium as a weapon. Templar abilities are not permanent and they need a constant supply of Lyrium to maintain them, like an archer needs arrows to fire a bow. The Lyrium that Fenris uses is etched into his flesh.

 

It is the Mages that can alone call upon these sources to increase their power. Everyone has Blood but only Mages can harness the power of it. Everyone, with the exception of Dwarves, is connected to the Fade but only Mages can access its power. All Grey Wardens and Darkspawn are connected to the Taint but only the Mages and Emissaries can wield it to achieve feats beyond their own bodies.

[hellbiter88]

The idea of a dwarven mage has definitely occured after the final scene in Descent; however, I see this as being unlikely. Even if she were a mage for all intents and purposes, she's an anomoly, and i doubt we'll get to make a playable character from a dwarf/magic perspective.

 

It seems like they've really hit the lyrium plot hard in this expansion, and I find it curious that they decided to bring to life the Titan myth. I wonder what implications that might have, if any, for future games? A battle of the gods-type DA4 would be epic, if they brought these things out of the earth to "reshape" the world--meaning destroying everyone and everything in the process.

[King Killoth]

The definition of a Mage is someone who is strongly connected to the Fade and able to draw upon its power. Darkspawn are the exception but even though they are all connected to the Blight only a select few can draw upon its power. Blood, another source of power, can only be drawn upon by someone who is already a Mage just like Grey Warden Mages can draw on the power of the Blight while other Wardens cannot. Nothing in Descent suggested that Valta had been connected to the Fade.

 

Being a Mage is a special attribute, not something that can be given. Valta clearly has some yet unexplained power but blast of energy does not a Mage make. Fenris and Tempars are also capable of generating blasts of energy through their connection with Lyrium. Their status as non Mages is never questioned, Valta does not seem to be different in that regard.

I think that any one can use blood magic just look at reavers they use their blood to do things no warrior can do or at least not easily. I think any one can use blood magic they just do not know how to use it. mages are already trained in magic use so the leap from fade to blood is not that far. I think lyrium is of the void and Valta can only use her lyrium magic wail in the deep roads. if you ask her to join you she tells you she can't and its her place down in the stone. the fade and all the magic and spirits with in it is in essence one singular matter seperate from the world of thadas. something long ago linked the fade with the creatures living on the surface. where the dwarves got linked with the void and by extension lyrium. blood has its own power and I think is more the same matter as the real world in which all living creatures are linked to by being beings of the real world. the blight is something entirely different and I think might be a mix of all three forces, but thats just my crazy idea..not sure if any of this made sense.

[Jessegingin]

Your topic is already a huge spoiler, lol.