So today I completed DA: I for the second time and somehow wound up with Vivienne as Divine, which reinforces my dislike for whatever mechanic decides on the Divine in game.
So I conscripted the mages (I did not think that anyone who was involved in a civil war should get a free pass), however I made Celine and Briala rule Orlais together. Moreover I supported Leliana and told both Cassandra and Vivienne that I preferred Leliana to become Divine. Ugh... If there is a post campaign expansion/DLC, then I don't think that I'll continue with this save (110 hours ), everything else was perfect; it was almost a cannon playthrough except for Vivienne/lil'Miss Death and Instability becoming Divine. Having Celine rule (even with Briala) must give points in favor of Vivienne, more than Leliana. It seems the only safe way to get Leliana as Divine is to ally with the mages, I don't want to ally with mages or Templars... Anyone get Leliana as Divine without allying with the mages?
In most of my pts I conscript Templars and can get Leliana as Divine. So yes, you can make her Divine without allying with mages.
Unfortunately Leliana is the only one who hasn't 'support' war table mission, which means you need to be careful with your words and choices thru the game.
It is a massive bugbear of mine that conscripting the mages is seen by the game as tacit support for Vivienne's agenda. Lack of faith in mage leadership =/= support for a return to circles.
Andres Hendrix, ThePhoenixKing et Kukuru aiment ceci
In most of my pts I conscript Templars and can get Leliana as Divine. So yes, you can make her Divine without allying with mages.
Unfortunately Leliana is the only one who hasn't 'support' war table mission, which means you need to be careful with your words and choices thru the game.
I forgot to talk to Viv after Redcliff, I wonder if that had something to do with it? Because you can tell her to train more templars with Cullen, or that mages should be free.
It is a massive bugbear of mine that conscripting the mages is seen by the game as tacit support for Vivienne's agenda. Lack of faith in mage leadership =/= support for a return to circles.
I know right? Who in their right mind blatantly sides with a faction that has been part of a bloody civil war? You can't even say that to Leliana and the rest of the council after Redcliff, it frustrates me to no end. lol
From what I know that talk either gives you nothing or strengthens Vivienne as candidate for Divine.
Small talks can influence divine selection. Showing support for changes in the Chantry is what you want Leliana as Divine.
Also, option which you picked during your Inquisitor speech matters.
I picked stopping Corypheus as the Inquisition's 'raison d'etre' (which must be a neutral response). I mostly supported Leliana in my talks, I might have also told Cassandra that the chantry should end (wich might be another neutral kind of response).
Yeah, I told myself during my canon pt, that if I get Vivienne, I'm replaying. Fortunately I got Cassandra.
I have yet to get Vivienne, thought I think I'll get her when I conscript mages in my dwarf pt.
I got Cassandra in my first play through, which was a bummer since she is my Inquisitor's love interest, and because I still wanted Leliana to become the Divine lol. At least in this second play through almost all my party members stayed (all except Blackwall who became the Warden, and Viv). Two play throughs and I still don't have a canon one, I really don't want to put another 100 hours into this game. XD
That label would definitely suit Leliana, not Vivienne. She doesn't want to kill people nearly as often as Leliana, and is very, very stable.
It is a massive bugbear of mine that conscripting the mages is seen by the game as tacit support for Vivienne's agenda. Lack of faith in mage leadership =/= support for a return to circles.
Definitely agree. There could be any number of reasons for conscripting mages or templars, and the game instead likes to assume it knows why you did it.
That label would definitely suit Leliana, not Vivienne. She doesn't want to kill people nearly as often as Leliana, and is very, very stable.
Definitely agree. There could be any number of reasons for conscripting mages or templars, and the game instead likes to assume it knows why you did it.
Maybe in your head that is true, but all tangible evidence from the slides says otherwise. Leliana's ending is the only ending that does not end in bloodshed (if she was softened) and it says that her rule looks to be a golden age. Vivienne 's rule starts an open conflict and the game blatantly tells you that her rule is fracturing from within, and will not last. Furthermore, Leliana's softened ruel, is the only one that does not call on the Inquisition for help, why? Because it does not start a conflict, unlike Viv who has mass riots, and Cassandra who is faced with a shadow war.
It is a massive bugbear of mine that conscripting the mages is seen by the game as tacit support for Vivienne's agenda.
It's rather clever actually: Vivienne is a talented player of the game who has her own network of allies and obligees, so of course she'll make sure that the Inquisitor's deeds and words are interpreted in ways that serve her interest and conquer the sunburst throne unless you openly support her competition.
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Vivienne is such a bad choice for Divine
On the other hand, her election hold the potential for interesting tales down the road.
Maybe in your head that is true, but all tangible evidence from the slides says otherwise. Leliana's ending is the only ending that does not end in bloodshed (if she was softened) and it says that her rule looks to be a golden age. Vivienne 's rule starts an open conflict and the game blatantly tells you that her rule is fracturing from within, and will not last. Furthermore, Leliana's softened ruel, is the only one that does not call on the Inquisition for help, why? Because it does not start a conflict, unlike Viv who has mass riots, and Cassandra who is faced with a shadow war.
Sometimes bloodshed is a necessary action for change. Vivienne as Divine is probably the best outcome for restoring order in Thedas imo. I'm very pro-mage and Anti circle(current) but receiving an education in the Circle towers wouldn't be a bad thing after everything that has happened in Thedas. Mages should be given more freedom but they also need a safety net if things go south...
It's rather clever actually: Vivienne is a talented player of the game who has her own network of allies and obligees, so of course she'll make sure that the Inquisitor's deeds and words are interpreted in ways that serve her interest and conquer the sunburst throne unless you openly support her competition.
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On the other hand, her election hold the potential for interesting tales down the road.
It's not clever, because the Inquisitor cannot (due to the limited writing) adequately explain his or her own actions. This could be the difference in Vivienne taking advantage of the conscription of the mages or Templars. As for the latter part; like what? What sort of hat she has on her head when it finally gets stuck on a pike? Leliana's changes the entire institution of the Chantry, how is Viv's ending more ineresting than that (it's just more civil war)?
Sometimes bloodshed is a necessary action for change. Vivienne as Divine is probably the best outcome for restoring order in Thedas imo. I'm very pro-mage and Anti circle(current) but receiving an education in the Circle towers wouldn't be a bad thing after everything that has happened in Thedas. Mages should be given more freedom but they also need a safety net if things go south...
Oh, just how much blood? A few dozen rioters, a mass grave or so, genocide? This reminds me of people who try to argue the 'problem of evil' that suffering somehow teaches a lesson, just how much suffering? lol So tell me how much bloodshed? And for what? A pompous dictator, who is one evil mustache short of a Joseph Stalin?You might want to take another look at that ending slide. After her actions, Vivienne's chantry begins to fracture from within, and without the Inquisition's military and intelligence support her stint will be (quite literally) cut short. She is the opposite of stability. I should add that receiving an education does not entail the loss of one's autonomy, Tevinter has mage universities.
Are there any bugs that work against Leliana? Because by the looks of that wiki article, the only thing I did wrong was conscript the mages.
There were some folks on reddit who had problem regarding making Leliana divine on ps, but i don't think it's a bug it's just how the mechanics work.
You see even if Leliana has more points she can appear false as divine. And conscripting the mages force you to have to rest of choices in favor of Leliana.
It comes to the point if you unlock the war table missions of Viv or Cass, or chose a supportive dialogue for either Viv or Cass will override Leliana as divine.
Check the notes again regarding her personal quest, it would be best if you completed wicked eyes right before arbor wilds.
My pal who quite recently finished his first playthrough of Inquisition was quite frustrated that every time he came to the Divine choice Vivienne and Leliana would always take precedence over Cassandra.
Now take this with a pinch of salt as I haven't tested this myself;
According to my pal, the reason that this happens isn't based on any in-game decisions as much as it's based on three factors that supposedly are the support to Cassandra mission on the war table as well as the inquiries with Leliana and Vivienne over the Divine position. Now apparently depending on in which order you approach these three factors, the Divine election will vary. For example even if you do the war table mission in support of Cassandra, Vivienne or Leliana might be elected if your PC even as much as inquired with them regarding the position, meaning that whoever you approached last will be made Divine. So if I say first approach Vivienne, then do Cassandra's war table mission and last inquire with Leliana, she will take precedence, even if the support Cassandra mission has previously been carried out.
I have no save files to personally test this, nor do I know if this might be a bug that happens during some playthroughs, but it might simply be that the last character that you inquire with about the Divine position is always elected?
Did you finish Leliana's quest? High approval? Did you speak positively and agree with her on her views of the chantry and circle? That's how I got her to be divine. I didn't support anyone else + I didn't approve of Cassandra's or Vivienne's views on being divine.
If you ask my opinion - Cassandra is the best divine. Vivienne is pro chantry and going back to the old circle ways and Leliana is just crazy, her views on the chantry and circle is plain ridiculous IMO and she turns out to be kind blood thirsty no more sweet nug leliana thats for sure.
I guess it all depends on your views are u pro chantry or pro mage .. I believe in Cassandra being the best choice for divine, I feel she's more in the middle cautious of the blood mages but open minded of the freedom of mages ..and she wants to change the chantry ways :/
Did you finish Leliana's quest? High approval? Did you speak positively and agree with her on her views of the chantry and circle? That's how I got her to be divine. I didn't support anyone else + I didn't approve of Cassandra's or Vivienne's views on being divine.
If you ask my opinion - Cassandra is the best divine. Vivienne is pro chantry and going back to the old circle ways and Leliana is just crazy, her views on the chantry and circle is plain ridiculous IMO and she turns out to be kind blood thirsty no more sweet nug leliana thats for sure.
I guess it all depends on your views are u pro chantry or pro mage .. I believe in Cassandra being the best choice for divine, I feel she's more in the middle cautious of the blood mages but open minded of the freedom of mages ..and she wants to change the chantry ways :/
I did all that. Ostensibly Leliana (softened) is the best Divine, because of what we learn from the slides, I've already mentioned what that entails. The problem with Leliana's ending, has got nothing to do with the writing itself, in fact there is nothing wrong with the ending to warrant the type of dubious criticism it gets, it has got everything to do with how the fans have been brought up to view that sort of ending. It is a rather strange phenomenon that you can have four Divine endings, three of which end in blatant conflict, and only one that does not and has a mention of a golden age, and that ending--the one that lacks conflict and a mention of a golden age--is the one that the fans call unstable, crazy etc.
There is a wonderful interview on YouTube with the British author Ian McEwen; in it he discusses love in fiction. McEwen talks about how readers cannot seem to deal with the idea of 'sustained' happiness, and the writer is constantly struggling to portray sustained happiness to these readers--there is always the danger of it somehow seeming 'unreal'. He goes so far as to say that the novel as a medium cannot portray 'the best expression' of love, it is best left to a related part of literature, poetry. People seem to prefer 'difficulty' in novels. So what I think is happening in games, like with novels (actually I think it is worst with games), is that people have this kind of irrational defense mechanism anytime anything goes even a little bit right. They feel like the 'sustained' happiness feels 'unreal'. But really, we know that a renaissance, or something like major institutional changes (think of something like Vatican 2 when the Catholic Church finally dropped the doctrine of deicide) from real experience, are not out of the realm of socio-political possibility, and we know that these things can have working, long lasting consequences. I think people for some reason feel like, if Leliana's revolution works then all conflict will somehow be zapped out of Thedas, when it is a rather silly notion. A revolution, no matter how golden, will not be a utopia, there is no evidence that Leliana's Chantry will be perfect, in fact we are likely to see conflict against her Chantry in the form of the Qun, instead of from another civil war.
), everything else was perfect; it was almost a cannon playthrough except for Vivienne/lil'Miss Death and Instability becoming Divine. Having Celine rule (even with Briala) must give points in favor of Vivienne, more than Leliana. It seems the only safe way to get Leliana as Divine is to ally with the mages, I don't want to ally with mages or Templars... Anyone get Leliana as Divine without allying with the mages? 
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