180 réponses à ce sujet

[Linkenski]

I've just noticed that at Bioware there seems to be weird stuff going on within the company's infrastructure, and while I don't have any real insight, I am looking on it from afar and wondering "this seems weird to me".

In not one, but two cases has it happened now, that Bioware has promoted people of different developer backgrounds into positions that basically rank higher tha. Where they used to be, and in both cases it's weird since said people were not exactly amazing at what they did when they were in an inferior position.

A lot if the criticisms you see in various forum threads nowadays towards Bioware has been comments like "their writers can't write" or "Bioware don't know what they're doing anymore" and unfortunately I sometimes agree.

On the two leading franchises they've taken, arguably one of their worst writers and put them into position if Creative Director. How is a person who lacks the capability to write and 'get' narrative supposed to keep track of the big picture, and give guidance to programmers, art designers, writers, sound staff etc. if the game is totally relying in the artistic aspects and especially lore and world building, when said person wasn't even capable to write as well as the rest of his team?

I'm not gonna call anyone by name even if it's sort of obvious, but I find one of these Creative Directors to be a guy who always throws big and empty buzzwords around when he's interviewed and give off the impression that he doesn't understand his own work very well, while the other guy seems to want his game to be like every other game he's played and basically be anything but how it was in DA:O, which even some critics agree was when the series was at its best. (that's important stuff, since critics have louder voices than fans, but they tend to like dumbed down stuff better)

Basically... what the heck, Bioware?

[Just My Moniker]

[Dio Demon]

Please refer to my avatar.

[Andraste_Reborn]

I always thought Mike Laidlaw's writing on Jade Empire was pretty good. But then, I think he's a pretty good Creative Director, too.

 

(And I have no idea what you think leaving his name out of your post accomplishes. Is the other guy Casey Hudson? Hasn't he gone to work for Microsoft anyway? I know a lot less about the development history of Mass Effect.)

[AresKeith]

This thread 

 

[Teddie Sage]

Writing Team / Mike Laidlaw / Descent DLC Observation :

Spoiler

Mike always seemed to me to be very ambitious and having the right ideas at the right place, however he's not Patrick Weekes or David Gaider. Those were the people responsible to write the lore and the main characters for many of the games, not sure when Weekes arrived but he's doing a fine job with Cole and now that he's taking over Gaider's work, I'm curious to see where the franchise will head next. I think Laidlaw's ideas are troublesome for veteran RPG players, but casual players don't seem to care that much about where their sticky things are put, they just want to have some fun and enjoy the dialogues. I do a lot of casual playthroughs in my BioWare games, but I do also enjoy a good challenge once in a while. The Descent DLC was a fine exemple that they were listening to the fans that complained about the game being too easy and not challenging enough on Normal. Sure, there are a few lore inconsistencies like the lyrium mini-guns and hidden technologies that are hidden underground; there's also plot elements that change the history of dwarves and creates even more cliffhangers. They know how to keep people wanting more and that's something I like and dislike at the same time. When you want closure, don't expect BioWare to hold you by the hands, because that's not their games are about I figure. The rest is always open to the interpretation. Just how I see it.

[duckley]

Plus, as I understand it - there is a writing TEAM and although individuals write aspects, the overall concepts and content is a team  effort.

[Teddie Sage]

I said it once and will repeat it again and again... Kirkwall still has a place in my heart. I loved DA2, as flawed as it was.

[Darkly Tranquil]

I said it once and will repeat it again and again... Kirkwall still has a place in my heart. I loved DA2, as flawed as it was.

DA2 is a tragic case of unrealised potential. It's still okay, but it could have been so much more. Legacy gave us a tiny glimpse of what could have been if they had been given more time.

[Rawgrim]

DA2 needs a Director's Cut.

[katerinafm]

Wow, rude.

[Darkly Tranquil]

DA2 needs a Director's Cut.

The problem is that the name is so tainted by the whole "DA2 is the cancer of all gaming" internet hate train, that I'd doubt they'd even be willing to try. If you look at the pre-release promotion of DAI, there was no mention of DA2, so it seems like Bioware themselves would rather forget it. I honestly can't see them ever being willing to put more money into a tainted title, even if it does have it's defenders.

[CDR Aedan Cousland]

"Here's an unfunny and overused reaction image; that'll teach you to have an opinion that conflicts with mine." OP was even courteous enough to avoid naming names, yet you still carry on, like clockwork. Amazing.

 

At what point did critique start warranting petulant passive-aggressiveness? I'd love to see you people in any sort of art class.

[Darkly Tranquil]

How is it tainted?

Over time it has developed a very bad reputation (disproportionately so) for being an awful game in online gamer communities . It regularly features in "Worst games you ever played" lists (mostly of people who never played it but want to fit in). The DA2 hate train has taken on a life of its own, becoming something of a meme to the extent that DA2=bad is now a widely held belief.

[Linkenski]

I think Laidlaw's real contribution is the "awesome button". Not the writing.


I think the writing has been cool for the most part. I'm not a fan of Weekes though. I like his novel, but so far not anything in the game. I wish Lukas or Mary or Sheryl had the lead. These are the people who wrote DAO's Loghain, the Act 2/Qunari conflict in DA2, all the down to earth types like Sera/Isabela/Oghren/Sigrun/Varric/Aveline. I love what they do to the world. I get the feeling Weekes is inclined to be "epic" and explore "deep lore". Even his good novel is more epic than not...He manages to get a civil war story and have Gaspard explore the Eluvians before Merrill ever could. lol.

Yeah, I can never figure out where I stand on Patrick Weekes's style. I think he makes just as much good as he does bad I think, because he has genuinely great work across the board for every project he's been on, but he also strikes me as a bit of a fanboy, and like you say how his arcs have to be "epic" and he wrote in a blog that he listened to OST from Iron Man and The Avengers for inspiration, and... it kinda comes across as if he just wants things to be big and epic like in Marvel Movies (sry, I know they have quite a following, but I loathe the entire cinematic Marvel universe era of films. They're dumb movies made for dudebros), and yet he knows subtlety so it's weird how I feel about Patrick's contributions.

I don't think EA ordered the game to be more epic. I think, if that was a requirement for the game it was more likely to be Mike or Mark Darrah's decision, since Darrah is all about numbers and buzzwords, at least every time they show their games to the public.

I know this entire post is rather "rude" towards the people in question, but sometimes you need to shake the trees to see what falls out, and I'm not getting any answers by trying to act all nice and polite.

[Panda]

Over time it has developed a very bad reputation (disproportionately so) for being an awful game in online gamer communities . It regularly features in "Worst games you ever played" lists (mostly of people who never played it but want to fit in). The DA2 hate train has taken on a life of its own, becoming something of a meme to the extent that DA2=bad is now a widely held belief.

 

I think the bad reputation of DA2 and stigma was why Bioware also overcompensated in DAI in terms of having variety in the maps and open-world, but this overcompensation lead to weaker storytelling and bit emotionless main character (not enough conflict). DA2 had lot of good which sadly was forgotten in DAI.

[Just My Moniker]

"Here's an unfunny and overused reaction image; that'll teach you to have an opinion that conflicts with mine." OP was even courteous enough to avoid naming names, yet you still carry on, like clockwork. Amazing.

 

At what point did critique start warranting petulant passive-aggressiveness? I'd love to see you people in any sort of art class.

[Teddie Sage]

"Here's an unfunny and overused reaction image; that'll teach you to have an opinion that conflicts with mine." OP was even courteous enough to avoid naming names, yet you still carry on, like clockwork. Amazing.
 
At what point did critique start warranting petulant passive-aggressiveness? I'd love to see you people in any sort of art class.

You can't argue with that type of people. It's best you put them on your ignore list.

[Wulfram]

Writing Team / Mike Laidlaw / Descent DLC Observation :

Spoiler

Mike always seemed to me to be very ambitious and having the right ideas at the right place, however he's not Patrick Weekes or David Gaider. Those were the people responsible to write the lore and the main characters for many of the games, not sure when Weekes arrived but he's doing a fine job with Cole and now that he's taking over Gaider's work, I'm curious to see where the franchise will head next. I think Laidlaw's ideas are troublesome for veteran RPG players, but casual players don't seem to care that much about where their sticky things are put, they just want to have some fun and enjoy the dialogues. I do a lot of casual playthroughs in my BioWare games, but I do also enjoy a good challenge once in a while. The Descent DLC was a fine exemple that they were listening to the fans that complained about the game being too easy and not challenging enough on Normal. Sure, there are a few lore inconsistencies like the lyrium mini-guns and hidden technologies that are hidden underground; there's also plot elements that change the history of dwarves and creates even more cliffhangers. They know how to keep people wanting more and that's something I like and dislike at the same time. When you want closure, don't expect BioWare to hold you by the hands, because that's not their games are about I figure. The rest is always open to the interpretation. Just how I see it.

 

Descent is mostly Bioware Austin's work, I believe.

[Paul E Dangerously]

Over time it has developed a very bad reputation (disproportionately so) for being an awful game in online gamer communities . It regularly features in "Worst games you ever played" lists (mostly of people who never played it but want to fit in). The DA2 hate train has taken on a life of its own, becoming something of a meme to the extent that DA2=bad is now a widely held belief.

 

I wouldn't go that far in saying that it's disproportionate. The main complaint is that it simply isn't Origins. It wasn't trying to be, and Bioware's basically shot DAO in the head in the woods and merrily moved on, but a lot of people loved Origins, and have found the sequels to be lacking. If it had been an expansion on the level of Awakening I can see it getting a bit more forgiveness, but as a full-on Dragon Age 2? Eeh.

 

I like DA2 for what it is. I like it better than DAI. It does a few things better than Origins - the skill trees are more varied, the combat is more reactive, and the tactics are even better than Origins - but overall a lot of people felt that DA2 lost a lot of what make DAO good. It's extremely simplified (though DAI is even more so), there's a lot less variety in character builds and loadouts, the protagonist is human-only, the plot is held together with twistees and duct tape, and Hawke has practically no agency in anything.

 

Then DAI forgets what DA2 did well, and here we are.