205 réponses à ce sujet

[Texasmotiv]

There are a few points I want to weigh in on here:

 

1) Ruggie's character - I don't know him very well. I know of him and he is friend of a friend to me. I have played with him before and can vouch that he is very good. Whether being good is a reason to discriminate against other players is your determination to make. This forum seems to be very anti-elitist. I think a moderate amount of elitism is healthy but its all subjective.

 

2) Why don't you just play private? - I know from experience the switch from system to system can be difficult as the majority of your friends list is left on the old system. I think he may be re-experiencing what it is like to Pug and felling what it is like to lose your support system and it's not good. Some of the observations he has made are observations I have made myself. The countless 20s in all difficulties (not just NM) I have seen 20s in threatening and the one time I did a routine dragon there were level 20s. This is a stark contrast of the culture on ps3. Not sure why but It is an observation and given the fact that others have seen it too make it seem less of a coincidence.

 

3) Assuming a 20 is bad - I feel the same way. I assume that if you are level 20 there is about a 70% chance (based on past experience) that you will be dead very quickly or lack the knowledge to be effective. The reason I feel this way is that all great players that I encounter have the same philosophy: Promote, Promote, Promote! The reason is that it makes your character better. People say that want "the challenge" and that promoting makes the game too easy. The fact of the matter is, the difficulties there are may not always be the same. they may get harder. There may be more challenge later. Promoting primes you for that. There is a lot of controversy over this I know but this is what I have seen from my experience.

 

4) HB at 30/30/30 - I do feel that this is misleading. I have the utmost respect for the group of players that beta test and I understand that you had to "exploit" to finish the content. That being said, the fact that you had to exploit with a group of very experienced players doing battle strategies and taking your time shows that its is highly unlikely that any non-resetting team could clear HB in any normal amount of time. Saying this is misleading. That's not to say that it CANT be done but people should not expect to clear HB easily with 60 promotes. But its also not required to have 400 promotes either, but the fact that well balanced teams of friends that play together all the time with 300+ promotes each told me that it was difficult for them I assume that 30/30/30 should not be the "okay, im ready for HB now, lol" threshold.

[Wavebend]

4) HB at 30/30/30 - exploit with a group of very experienced players

 

Incorrect. Learn to read. Most of the completions & testing was done with players who had never stepped into HB. = NOT experienced players. Experienced players = good positioning (mages stay together), mastering of shift-cancel attack for gathering storm, mana management and teamplay intuition.

It was the only way to test HB given the short timeframe before content lock (less than a weekend). I had to go  into routine lobbies and lure players and convince them to step up to HB. literally.

 

The only thing that was "experienced" was the knowledge, strategies, planning, testing, etc. that I had done on my own with the (major) help of a few friends to plan how to beat these factions. Not the players

[Sulaco_7]

There are a few points I want to weigh in on here:

 

1) Ruggie's character - I don't know him very well. I know of him and he is friend of a friend to me. I have played with him before and can vouch that he is very good. Whether being good is a reason to discriminate against other players is your determination to make. This forum seems to be very anti-elitist. I think a moderate amount of elitism is healthy but its all subjective.

 

 

You have to realize most people on these forums are at work most of the time - you know, they're not actually playing the game 10 hours a day, so they are not the ones with 200+ in all stats.

 

A moderate amount of elitism is healthy?  So a moderate amount of condescending to new players is good?  Or does elitism mean something else...

[sonofbarak]

Incorrect. Learn to read. Most of the completions & testing was done with players who had never stepped into HB. = NOT experienced players. Experienced players = good positioning (mages stay together), mastering of shift-cancel attack for gathering storm, mana management and teamplay intuition.

It was the only way to test HB given the short timeframe before content lock (less than a weekend). I had to go  into routine lobbies and lure players and convince them to step up to HB. literally.

 

The only thing that was "experienced" was the knowledge, strategies, planning, testing, etc. that I had done on my own with the (major) help of a few friends to plan how to beat these factions. Not the players

 

I understand why you guys had to do that, I ain't mad at ya

But the Bs has to stop on these boards and your statement help rise it to new levels.

Maybe it can be done as an group with 30/30/30 stats but that an theory not an fact.

The facts are you need to promote in this game to become strong telling people otherwise is misleading.

I will never be apologetic for being on the Leaderboard, I did the work to get there.

If you hate me for being on the Leaderboards that your problem not mines.

This elitists crap needs to stop. I play the game the way Bioware design you need to promote to get STRONGER.

Because of majority of you here do not want to play the way the game is design that your issue with Bioware not players.

Than try and shamed people for promoting its sad to much jealousy on these boards.

 

 

 

[Wavebend]

Than try and shamed people for promoting its sad to much jealousy on these boards.

 

Please don't put words in my mouth. That is something I've never said. Promoting is the way to go and I've said it earlier this week. I'd never shame people for promoting.

 

Maybe it can be done as an group with 30/30/30 stats but that an theory not an fact.

 

It is a fact.

[Geth Supremacy]

You have to realize most people on these forums are at work most of the time - you know, they're not actually playing the game 10 hours a day, so they are not the ones with 200+ in all stats.

 

A moderate amount of elitism is healthy?  So a moderate amount of condescending to new players is good?  Or does elitism mean something else...

 

While you are being a bit over the top with "200".  The amount of time the game has been out would provide people of normal playing time per week with quite high stats at this point in time.

 

I am just going to say 1 thing and people can take it or leave it.  From my perception of reading this section since before release.  Aside from a complete noob, I don't think anyone really takes this forum seriously....at least from what I see.  I mean yeah people can get fired up over bugs or whatever, but to come here and talk about the game on an in depth level and really appreciate the gameplay and getting better while playing the top tiers of the game?  I don't see it.  Now, is that a bad thing?  That's subjective.  I don't think there is anything wrong with having some diversity though.  There might be a post that breaks the mold very rarely.

 

I have tried to take this place serious in the past.  Once the threads get going and the responses that come....you just can't be.  I don't think the mere mention of HB or some in game accomplishment being met with "epeen" comments is valuable.  I mean it was funny for a little while, but when you're left with glitch threads and story/comedy threads that make up the entire forum it paints a picture of the playerbase that posts here and sets the tone for you.

 

Same thing for people that get mad at Ruggie for trolling because of things like in this thread.  He can't take it serious so he just posts about it and laughs.

[ParthianShotX]

This elitists crap needs to stop. 

 

I couldn't agree more.  Pay attention, though, as that road runs both ways.

[ruggie]

I said it was hard to find a pug without the glitch I never dupped it myself but say what you will. I had my stats before the glitch so phuck ya. Maybe if yall promote you'd be elite too. There's a reason the ps4 leaderboard is changing for the better.

[JAMiAM]

You have to realize most people on these forums are at work most of the time - you know, they're not actually playing the game 10 hours a day, so they are not the ones with 200+ in all stats.

 

A moderate amount of elitism is healthy?  So a moderate amount of condescending to new players is good?  Or does elitism mean something else...

I suspect that Tex was trying to make a point about people playing at the difficulty level that they are competent at, or at least, useful.  I could be wrong, and don't want to be putting words in Tex's mouth, but that was my take away on it.

[darreCZ]

Can we please start kicking these people. Playing as a 20 tells me you have 30 combined promotions and will die within minutes of opening the door. The game is about promoting not having a lvl 20. Ps4 community lacks so many aspects the ps3 thrived in. Anyway I say kick them out. Also a minimum stat requirement would be awesome.

 

I respect everyone's opinion, but pls don´t tell people how to play their game​. If they r comfortable playing lvl 20 on NM, just accept it or play in private lobbies.

[ParthianShotX]

I suspect that Tex was trying to make a point about people playing at the difficulty level that they are competent at, or at least, useful.  I could be wrong, and don't want to be putting words in Tex's mouth, but that was my take away on it.

 

But where am I supposed to get that "flying by the seat of my pants/hair on fire" feeling then?  

[JAMiAM]

Please don't put words in my mouth. That is something I've never said. Promoting is the way to go and I've said it earlier this week. I'd never shame people for promoting.

 

 

It is a fact.

Wavebend, are you saying that a group of 4 players, with stats averaging 30/30/30 has beaten HB without using the reload exploit?  If so, do you have a video for that?  It is a world of difference between 4 players with 16 lives/32 potions doing the run, and 4 players with essentially limitless lives and potions doing the run.

 

I don't want to discount the hard work you've apparently done in the beta team.  I appreciate that immensely.  However, I do feel that extrapolating those exploited runs to the generalized statements you've made about HB are somewhat disingenious.  Or, am I misinterpreting what you're trying to get across?

[Proto]

The amount of time the game has been out would provide people of normal playing time per week with quite high stats at this point in time.

 

From my perception of reading this section since before release.  Aside from a complete noob, I don't think anyone really takes this forum seriously....at least from what I see.  I mean yeah people can get fired up over bugs or whatever, but to come here and talk about the game on an in depth level and really appreciate the gameplay and getting better while playing the top tiers of the game?  I don't see it.  Now, is that a bad thing?  That's subjective.  I don't think there is anything wrong with having some diversity though.  There might be a post that breaks the mold very rarely.

 

That second paragraph...well done sir.

[JAMiAM]

But where am I supposed to get that "flying by the seat of my pants/hair on fire" feeling then?  

I had a long post all ready to go about me, and why I don't mind playing with people that make the game...'interesting'.  However, I felt it was too pretentious - even for me - and deleted it.  Now, I wish I didn't...;^)

 

In short, I agree that those are often the most fun!

[sonofbarak]

Please don't put words in my mouth. That is something I've never said. Promoting is the way to go and I've said it earlier this week. I'd never shame people for promoting.

 

 

It is a fact.

 

Like an said I ain't mad at you

If you took me as saying you, I should had been more specific I meant the board not you.

No its not an fact if you had to host migration every round that not completing HB that using an exploit to complete.

[Wavebend]

No its not an fact if you had to host migration every round that not completing HB that using an exploit to complete.

 

The server registered the game as a completion, therefore it is a fact, whether or not an "exploit" was used to complete it. I.e. counted towards the challenge. Now if you said "done without using the host migration exploit" I wouldn't have answered this way.

 

Wavebend, are you saying that a group of 4 players, with stats averaging 30/30/30 has beaten HB without using the reload exploit?  If so, do you have a video for that?

 

I won't post videos or strategies for heartbreaker (although they are on my youtube account as private videos ). My quick reference guide should already help players quite a bit.

 

It hasn't been done on beta because of the lack of players, but it is entirely possible for demons only. Not sure about the two other factions, as it would require mad luck and world-class coordination

 

However, I do feel that extrapolating those exploited runs to the generalized statements you've made about HB are somewhat disingenious.  Or, am I misinterpreting what you're trying to get across?

 

Yes. Use of the "exploit" is very limited generally, and most players don't have the time to do 2hrs+ runs. Usually we use it once or twice for wave 5 and that's it. Most of our runs are completed under 1hr 30mn and I have tons of screenshots to prove that, so I really don't make a big deal about it. Strategy, team compositions, loadouts (gear + potions) are much more important than the use of the exploit.

 

I do understand that you feel I cheated the game. I'm also not saying players with 30/30/30 should attempt Heartbreaker. The testing parameters were set this way so that Heartbreaker was made accessible to a large portion of the playerbase, extending to the 5% overpromoted players who were attempting full completion. I'd say x/70/70 for stats is much more reasonable before players think they're ready to complete HB

[darreCZ]

Wavebend, are you saying that a group of 4 players, with stats averaging 30/30/30 has beaten HB without using the reload exploit?  If so, do you have a video for that?  It is a world of difference between 4 players with 16 lives/32 potions doing the run, and 4 players with essentially limitless lives and potions doing the run.

 

I don't want to discount the hard work you've apparently done in the beta team.  I appreciate that immensely.  However, I do feel that extrapolating those exploited runs to the generalized statements you've made about HB are somewhat disingenious.  Or, am I misinterpreting what you're trying to get across?

 

They did it with 30/30/30 in beta, but dont forget HB was buffed after that:-)

[Texasmotiv]

You have to realize most people on these forums are at work most of the time - you know, they're not actually playing the game 10 hours a day, so they are not the ones with 200+ in all stats.

 

A moderate amount of elitism is healthy?  So a moderate amount of condescending to new players is good?  Or does elitism mean something else...

 

I think I should probably clarify what I mean by elitism being healthy to a point.

 

I don't advocate people being rude to anyone. I feel that if you want to correct someone you can do so in a diplomatic, civil way.

 

When I say that elitism can be healthy I mean that it sets up a societal structure for right and wrong and the accepted way to do things. This is usually set by those that have the most experience/knowledge/strate-skill in a given gaming community. The ones that made the spreadsheets, did the math, tested the mechanics, etc. Sometimes they do this for their own glory, and they lord this over others, but in the end the society (feelings aside) benefits from such an endeavor. As well, the society is now enlightened with a correct and accepted way to behave.

 

The BSN community agrees on the fact that people who spam f4 ("over here") are annoying and should be vilified for acting such a way. There is a reason that people do it, but it is still frowned upon.

 

When the elitists take this sort of thing further and starts saying, "your build is bad, this is why" they begin setting other norms for player performance. There is always some subjectivity in this and the common goal of these discussions is that of effectiveness and efficiency. As people discuss the finer aspects of different opportunity costs, the community can gain the common knowledge of what is effective and what is not. The limiting factor is that some builds work with different play styles and the game is forgiving enough to accommodate different play styles. The proof ends up being in the proverbial pudding when someone can produce results.

 

People who do not promote when you hit 20 are sacrificing efficiency because they don't wont to continue to grind more levels and want the ability to play the character with all the abilities passives that they have earned. That sacrifice has a downside that in the long run you are gimping your progress. there are very few players (I know there must be some) that post here and express the fact that they wish they hadn't promoted as much as they do. All the players that I know with high promotions still love the game as much as they did and enjoy the freedom to spec however they want on any character they want on any difficulty they want and still feel effective.

 

In short I am saying that elitism (checked by politeness) can be good for the community at large as it gives the society a paragonal ideal to compare ones own progress with.

 

I hope that clears things up. I don't mean in any way to offend anyone with this.

[ruggie]

So beta can exploit but the rest can't seems legit.

[CrimsonN7]

Eh some of you guys care too much about all this, I'll play where I want. Kick me or not don't care, wish I had half as much freetime to play VG's as some of you do here.

[Wavebend]

So beta can exploit but the rest can't seems legit.

 

Maybe if you were in beta with us we wouldn't need to exploit the game due to the lack of good players. Most players you see on this board on PC do not give a **** about beta and couldn't be bothered to play a single game after launch day, so this is what it is. (this includes 90% of my active friends on my friendlist)

 

If you want to be reassured I'll tell you a secret: Luke and his testers have completed HB at 30/30/30. Did they exploit the game as well?

[Texasmotiv]

Incorrect. Learn to read. Most of the completions & testing was done with players who had never stepped into HB. = NOT experienced players. Experienced players = good positioning (mages stay together), mastering of shift-cancel attack for gathering storm, mana management and teamplay intuition.

It was the only way to test HB given the short timeframe before content lock (less than a weekend). I had to go  into routine lobbies and lure players and convince them to step up to HB. literally.

 

The only thing that was "experienced" was the knowledge, strategies, planning, testing, etc. that I had done on my own with the (major) help of a few friends to plan how to beat these factions. Not the players

 

 

I didn't really expect you to respond with such a statement as "Learn to read". I don't really appreciate that and I'm not sure it was called for.

 

When I said that you played HB with experienced players I reference back to previous posts where you posted screenshots of your completions:

 

http://forum.bioware...3#entry19414295

 

The players in the screen shots are mostly familiar to me and I don't play on PC: Hellbiter88, Jaywee1, Drasca. Maybe you did complete tons of completions with random people that were comfortable on routine but I wasn't there so don't try to insinuate I'm illiterate for calling you on something that you own up to being an exaggeration a couple posts later.

 

 

I do understand that you feel I cheated the game. I'm also not saying players with 30/30/30 should attempt Heartbreaker. The testing parameters were set this way so that Heartbreaker was made accessible to a large portion of the playerbase, extending to the 5% overpromoted players who were attempting full completion. I'd say x/70/70 for stats is much more reasonable before players think they're ready to complete HB

[Wavebend]

I didn't really expect you to respond with such a statement as "Learn to read". I don't really appreciate that and I'm not sure it was called for.

 

When I said that you played HB with experienced players I reference back to previous posts where you posted screenshots of your completions:

 

http://forum.bioware...3#entry19414295

 

The players in the screen shots are mostly familiar to me and I don't play on PC: Hellbiter88, Jaywee1, Drasca. Maybe you did complete tons of completions with random people that were comfortable on routine but I wasn't there so don't try to insinuate I'm illiterate for calling you on something that you own up to being an exaggeration a couple posts later.

 

We didn't need to reset when enemies were level 25 (pre-buff). No use of exploit in some of these runs. Hellbiter88 and Drasca didn't play a single game post-buff on P9 beta so your post was a little bit out of context. The fact that I'm not relying on pre-buff completions is because they're now irrelevant and I assumed you thought the same as well.

[BlackLitez]

Maybe if you were in beta with us we wouldn't need to exploit the game due to the

lack of good players. Most players you see on this board on PC do not give a **** about beta and couldn't be bothered to play a single game after launch day, so this is what it is. (this includes 90% of my active friends on my friendlist)

 

I know of many xbox players willing to help test in beta, including myself.  I grabbed the free multiplayer when it was available hoping that I'd be able to help in beta after having the neccesary multiplayer files, but I did not qualify to be a tester.

 

I dont think many people in their right minds would be willing to shell out $40 to buy the game again for PC just to do bioware's work and test the game for them. 

 

With less than 10 active testers at any given time, it's obvious why so many bugs get through to live

[Wavebend]

With less than 10 active testers at any given time, it's obvious why so many bugs get through to live

 

More like ~2-3 active testers beyond the first day