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Realistic weapon fire?


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#1
Exaltation

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So many scenes in ME series with bunch of people shooting from not so far range and they just can't hit the target!
Cutscenes only,which discards the difficulty of the gameplay.

Basically gameplay: Insanity difficulty you exit combat with low health almost always.
Cutscenes: Suddenly the enemies forget how to use weapons and projectiles fly near-miss by you.
For example when you first meet Liara on ME3,like how incompetent you gotta be to be qualified to join Cerberus lol.

Are projectiles slower in the future?,or don't go in straight line?,or "eyeball it" is the minimum requirement to be a soldier? :P

#2
Han Shot First

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Cerberus was conscripting indoctrinated civilians, so its not too surprising that their marksmanship was poor. Also that ridiculous bulky armor they wear would/should make marksmanship more difficult.

 

In the real world good marksmanship is more difficult when soldiers/Marines are in MOPP gear, and that's with equipment that is far less cumbersome than what those Cerberus troopers were wearing. 



#3
Ahglock

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The hit rate in modern combat is actually really low. When someone is shooting at you your accuracy drops quite a bit. Police aren't soldiers but there are plenty of reports I can recall where they fired something like 75 bullets and hit 4 times.
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#4
N7Jamaican

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Not everyone can be an expert sniper, not even an expert has a 100% hit rate.

 

Not even this guy

 

sniper-private-daniel-jackson-saving-pri


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#5
Han Shot First

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Not everyone can be an expert sniper, not even an expert has a 100% hit rate.

 

Not even this guy

 

 

 

Great movie.

 

One thing I did like about SPR was that Jackson missed a shot or two during that final battle. 


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#6
N7Jamaican

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Great movie.

 

One thing I did like about SPR was that Jackson missed a shot or two during that final battle. 

 

Yes, he was a good sniper.  But even the best of them will miss.



#7
Former_Fiend

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Well, in real life, something like only 5% of gunshots fired in combat situations hit enemy combatants. Reason for this being that the vast majority of gunfire in combat is suppressive fire that isn't meant to actually kill anyone, just keep them pinned down while you advance on the target.



#8
Ahriman

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Well, in real life, something like only 5% of gunshots fired in combat situations hit enemy combatants. Reason for this being that the vast majority of gunfire in combat is suppressive fire that isn't meant to actually kill anyone, just keep them pinned down while you advance on the target.

Funny, I've seen some military research recently about soldier's behavior in combat. There was like 5% of them who actually aim and about 40% just shoot in enemy's direction (hello, WH orks) others just, well, shoot.



#9
Han Shot First

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Well, in real life, something like only 5% of gunshots fired in combat situations hit enemy combatants. Reason for this being that the vast majority of gunfire in combat is suppressive fire that isn't meant to actually kill anyone, just keep them pinned down while you advance on the target.

 

In the real world mortar and artillery shells also kill and wound many more people than bullets do. 



#10
Sidney

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Funny, I've seen some military research recently about soldier's behavior in combat. There was like 5% of them who actually aim and about 40% just shoot in enemy's direction (hello, WH orks) others just, well, shoot.


We were always taught about 10% actually are "in" the fight and the rest are pretty much heads down. That was built off USAA data from the Korean War so it assumes a reasonably professional army -- goodness knows what the stats would be if you got two armies of these militias and badly trained conscriptees going at each other.

The reality is it is hard to hit anything. The USAA estimated they fired off thousands of rounds per causality inflicted in Vietnam for example. Moving targets, cover, stress, counter-fire, fatigue, smoke all make it hard to hit diddly. I've known guys from 4 wars who can all recall firefights they were in where they didn't even see the guys who were shooting at them let alone accurately returning fire.

#11
Sidney

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In the real world mortar and artillery shells also kill and wound many more people than bullets do.



Correct.

..of course in the real world also 99.999999999% encounters are not a fight to the death where one side is 100% annihilated like in every RPG fight. People tend to run away long, long before it gets to that point.
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#12
rashie

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Accuracy wouldn't be nearly as high as they are in gameplay if it was aiming to be realistic, but it doesn't need to be. Video games should first and foremost be about fun, fluid and challenging mechanics unless you are building a game like Arma 3.

 

If anything, the solution to it is to not take control of the player character in cutscenes where weapons are in active use.



#13
Natureguy85

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Those are all lame excuses for the example given though. Those Cerberus mooks had short range shots in a confined space. It's simple cutscene incompetence.



#14
sH0tgUn jUliA

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In a recent cop chase in a town nearby, the suspect discharged a crap load of bullets and two struck targets. One at point blank range and the other at near point blank range. The cops fired another crap load of bullets. He was finally taken out when a cop ran over him with a patrol car. Hitting stationary targets are one thing. Hitting moving targets is another.

 

Cerberus mooks are just that: mooks for us to kill and not feel bad about it. They were the storm troopers from Star Wars that couldn't hit the broadside of a barn.

 

But it balanced out with Shepard's cut scene incompetence - Not blowing away Kai Leng when she had the chance, but instead deciding to talk with The Illusive Man.



#15
Geth Supremacy

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by the time someone would have reached N7 status their gun would feel like an extension of their own body.  Shooting targets no matter how fast/angled/elevated it would be second nature to them like pointing their finger at a location or picking something up.  Obviously this wouldn't apply at extreme ranges and would still need to be carefully taken shots.

 

Second nature.

 

There are people that hog hunt effectively out of helicopters.  The videos are all over youtube.  Many of them have zero military training and are that good.



#16
Sidney

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by the time someone would have reached N7 status their gun would feel like an extension of their own body.  Shooting targets no matter how fast/angled/elevated it would be second nature to them like pointing their finger at a location or picking something up.  Obviously this wouldn't apply at extreme ranges and would still need to be carefully taken shots.
 
Second nature.
 
There are people that hog hunt effectively out of helicopters.  The videos are all over youtube.  Many of them have zero military training and are that good.


Hogs tend to not shoot back nor use cover and concealment effectively. Hitting a paper target or a deer in a field is silly easy. Shooting while being shot at is an entirely different ball game the two things aren't even remotely similar.
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#17
Broganisity

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. . .It's called 'mooks can't aim'. It's everywhere.



#18
Former_Fiend

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. . .It's called 'mooks can't aim'. It's everywhere.

 

As a point, it is actually called Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy.



#19
Broganisity

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As a point, it is actually called Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy.

 

Trope Namer, but it's existed long before this.



#20
Sylvius the Mad

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The hit rate in modern combat is actually really low. When someone is shooting at you your accuracy drops quite a bit. Police aren't soldiers but there are plenty of reports I can recall where they fired something like 75 bullets and hit 4 times.

I recall an armoured car robbery in Calgary when I was a student.  It resulted in a running firefight through a shopping mall (at night - no people there) where the thieves and the police exchanged over 300 rounds of fire, and no one was hit.



#21
Han Shot First

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While it is a scene from a TV series, it portrays a real event. 



#22
Hanako Ikezawa

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#23
God

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Cerberus was conscripting indoctrinated civilians, so its not too surprising that their marksmanship was poor. Also that ridiculous bulky armor they wear would/should make marksmanship more difficult.

 

In the real world good marksmanship is more difficult when soldiers/Marines are in MOPP gear, and that's with equipment that is far less cumbersome than what those Cerberus troopers were wearing. 

 

Eh, I disagree with this: 

 

1) I think it's mentioned that Cerberus programmed their indoctrinated civilians with the skills of elite warriors. But, gameplay/cutscene and story/lore segregation and all that... The thing to take away is that the there was a difference between portrayal in gameplay and cutscenes, and actual in-story elements.

 

2) Power-armor is the solution here. The thing is MOPP gear on Soldiers (since you didn't capitalize it, I'm not including Marines :P) is it doesn't enhance one's capabilities. Look at Shepard. He's essentially wearing power armor to boost his combat abilities, sort of like the Spartans from Halo. 

 

I imagine that this is what the utility of Cerberus' armor is. It's bulky, but it's not cumbersome.



#24
God

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Funny, I've seen some military research recently about soldier's behavior in combat. There was like 5% of them who actually aim and about 40% just shoot in enemy's direction (hello, WH orks) others just, well, shoot.

 

The only time I actually just fired in the general direction of an enemy was in an assaulting/support-by-fire situation where my intent was less to hit the target - rather, my goal was to suppress the target until 1) a friendly decommissioned that target or 2) the target disengaged.

 

Otherwise, I was aiming, whether I was with iron sights on a 240B firing up a mountainside at a Taliban gunner 700 meters away, or with an ACOG on my M4 on single-fire select at a target at CQC close in range less than 200 meters across the road of a hamlet near Watapur.



#25
Chealec

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Funny, I've seen some military research recently about soldier's behavior in combat. There was like 5% of them who actually aim and about 40% just shoot in enemy's direction (hello, WH orks) others just, well, shoot.

 

As my grandad used to say after having served in WWII...

 

When we shoot, the Germans duck

When the Germans shoot, we duck

When the Yanks shoot, everybody ducks!


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